Rules Only: The economics of crew skills

[Spinward Flow]

LBB2.81 p16 (with emphasis added for clarity of the point I'm going to be making):

One person may fill two crew positions, providing he or she has the skill to otherwise perform the work. However, because of the added burden, each position is filled with skill minus one, and the individual draws salary equal to 75%of each position; thus, to fill two positions, the character must have at least skill level-2 in each (except steward: level-1).

TTB p61 (with emphasis added for clarity of the point I'm going to be making):

One person may fill two crew positions, providing he or she has the skills needed for both jobs. However, because of the added burden, each position is filled with skill minus one, and the individual draws salary equal to 75% of each position; thus, to fill two positions, the character must have skill level 2 in each, except steward, which requires level 1. No person may assume the duties of more than two crew positions except in the case of an emergency.

So TTB p61 adds the additional caveat/context that there is a limit to how many crew positions a single crew member can fill ... at 2 positions maximum.

---

The important thing to learn from this is that crew positions required does not ipso facto equal the number of crew persons required.
2 crew positions can be filled by 1 crew person with sufficient skill for both positions (usually Skill-2 for both positions, except for the steward positions where Skill-1 will suffice).

2 people will often times require 2 staterooms (8 tons) rather than only 1 person requiring 1 stateroom (4 tons).
Additionally, 2 people will always require Cr4000 per 2 weeks for life support for 2 people, regardless of the number of staterooms allocated to them ... as opposed to Cr 2000 per 2 weeks for life support for 1 person.

---

Three crew roles that rarely allow for a single individual to fill two positions in the same role will usually be:

• Pilot ... 1 per craft.
• Navigator ... 1 per ship over 200 tons.
• Medic ... 1 per starship 200 tons and up (non-starships and small craft do not require medics) AND at least 1 medic per 120 passengers carried (high, middle, low).

These three crew roles rarely require more than one crew position per craft. If a craft has sub-craft there can be additional pilots as crew members, but you can't really have 1 pilot operating 2 craft simultaneously under combat conditions, so "multi-pilot" isn't usually A Thing™. It is however possible for a ship's Pilot to also be assigned as a small craft PIlot (and therefore require Pilot-2 in order to achieve Ship's Boat-1 equivalence to operate the small craft), but when operating a small craft such a crew member cannot be simultaneously be fulfilling the crew position on another craft. Having Pilot-2 skill allows flexibility in which craft to be operating (starship, non-starship or small craft), but if more than 1 craft is to have a Pilot at the same time then separate crew persons will be needed to fill the position on separate craft.

Pilot/Navigators do exist, but they require Pilot-2/Navigator-2 skills in order for a single crew person to fill both positions. Recruiting individuals with the combination of both of these skills at these skill levels (or better) can potentially be problematic and/or challenging.

Medics can sometimes also fill the position of Steward if they have Medical-2/Steward-1 skills to meet minimum requirements (of Medical-1/Steward-0). However, if a ship is carrying low passengers this is not necessarily recommended as a Medical-2 skill offers a +1DM on 2D6 for survival rolls (5+ required).

---

However, the three departments that will often times have multiple position requirements for craft of 200+ tons displacement will tend to be, per LBB2.81 p16 and TTB p60:

• Engineer ... 1 per 35 tons of drives.
• Steward ... 1 per 8 high passengers.
• Gunner ... 1 per turret.

Obviously, a Skill-1 crew person can fill 1 position in each of these departments ... but what about people with Skill-2?
Well, just as obviously ... an Engineer with Engineering-2 can fill two Engineering-1 positions (Engineering-2 = Engineering-1/Engineering-1).
Likewise, a Steward with Steward-1 can fill two Steward-0 positions (Steward-1 = Steward-0/Steward-0).
A Gunner with Gunnery-2 can fill two Gunnery-1 positions (Gunnery-2 = Gunnery-1/Gunnery-1).

This means that a single crew person with Engineering-2 can meet the crew requirements to maintain 70 tons of drives.
A single crew person with Steward-1 can meet the crew requirements for 16 high passengers, not just 8 high passengers.
A single crew person with Gunnery-2 can meet the crew requirements for 2 turrets, not just 1 turret.

This insight has interesting implications for minimum crew sizes, the allocation of crew quarters as well as crew salary and life support overhead costs.
Additionally, this 1 crew person for 2 crew positions notion explicitly cannot be extended to allow 1 crew person to fill 3 crew roles.

 

[Spinward Flow]

2x Engineering-1 crew = 2 staterooms = 8 tons displacement, MCr1 construction cost, Cr1000 annual overhaul maintenance cost
4000 + 4000 = Cr8000 per month crew salaries
2000 + 2000 = Cr4000 per 2 weeks life support overhead
= Cr16,000 per 4 weeks salaries and life support, 8 tons displacement, MCr1 construction cost, Cr1000 annual overhaul maintenance cost

1x Engineering-2 crew = 1 stateroom = 4 tons displacement, MCr0.5 construction cost, Cr500 annual overhaul maintenance cost
((4000*1.1) + (4000*1.1))*0.75 = Cr6600 per month crew salary
2000 = Cr2000 per 2 weeks life support overhead
= Cr10,600 per 4 weeks salary and life support, 4 tons displacement, MCr0.5 construction cost, Cr500 annual overhaul maintenance cost

So just on salary and life support alone ... the 2x Engineering-1 option is 1.51x the cost on a monthly basis compared to the 1x Engineering-2 option.
On an annual overhaul maintenance basis ... the 2x Engineering-1 option costs 2x as much as the 1x Engineering-2 option.
And in terms of opportunities lost ... the extra stateroom tonnage allocated to the 2x Engineering-1 crew option means a loss of up to 25*4000=Cr100,000 per year in cargo transport availability, or up to 25*8000=Cr200,000 per year in high passenger revenue that could have been earned instead.

---

2x Steward-0 crew = 2 staterooms = 8 tons displacement, MCr1 construction cost, Cr1000 annual overhaul maintenance cost
3000 + 3000 = Cr6000 per month crew salaries
2000 + 2000 = Cr4000 per 2 weeks life support overhead
= Cr10,000 per 4 weeks salaries and life support, 8 tons displacement, MCr1 construction cost, Cr1000 annual overhaul maintenance cost

1x Steward-1 crew = 1 stateroom = 4 tons displacement, MCr0.5 construction cost, Cr500 annual overhaul maintenance cost
((3000*1.1) + (3000*1.1))*0.75 = Cr4950 per month crew salary
2000 = Cr2000 per 2 weeks life support overhead
= Cr6950 per 4 weeks salary and life support, 4 tons displacement, MCr0.5 construction cost, Cr500 annual overhaul maintenance cost

So just on salary and life support alone ... the 2x Steward-0 option is 1.44x the cost on a monthly basis compared to the 1x Steward-1 option.
On an annual overhaul maintenance basis ... the 2x Steward-0 option costs 2x as much as the 1x Steward-1 option.
And in terms of opportunities lost ... the extra stateroom tonnage allocated to the 2x Steward-0 crew option means a loss of up to 25*4000=Cr100,000 per year in cargo transport availability, or up to 25*8000=Cr200,000 per year in high passenger revenue that could have been earned instead.

---

2x Gunnery-1 crew = 2 staterooms = 8 tons displacement, MCr1 construction cost, Cr1000 annual overhaul maintenance cost
1000 + 1000 = Cr2000 per month crew salaries
2000 + 2000 = Cr4000 per 2 weeks life support overhead
= Cr6,000 per 4 weeks salaries and life support, 8 tons displacement, MCr1 construction cost, Cr1000 annual overhaul maintenance cost

1x Gunnery-2 crew = 1 stateroom = 4 tons displacement, MCr0.5 construction cost, Cr500 annual overhaul maintenance cost
((1000*1.1) + (1000*1.1))*0.75 = Cr1650 per month crew salary
2000 = Cr2000 per 2 weeks life support overhead
= Cr3650 per 4 weeks salary and life support, 4 tons displacement, MCr0.5 construction cost, Cr500 annual overhaul maintenance cost

So just on salary and life support alone ... the 2x Gunnery-1 option is 1.65x the cost on a monthly basis compared to the 1x Gunnery-2 option.
On an annual overhaul maintenance basis ... the 2x Gunnery-1 option costs 2x as much as the 1x Gunnery-2 option.
And in terms of opportunities lost ... the extra stateroom tonnage allocated to the 2x Gunnery-1 crew option means a loss of up to 25*4000=Cr100,000 per year in cargo transport availability, or up to 25*8000=Cr200,000 per year in high passenger revenue that could have been earned instead.

---

Larger craft with larger crews can basically "afford" to take on Skill-1 crew and not lose too much of the overall revenue share, creating a pathway of "apprenticeship" in order to move up through the ranks in some departments that require multiple positions to be filled per craft.

Some craft will require an odd number of crew positions ... such as a requirement for 3 Engineers, which can be filled by one person with Engineering-2 skill and one person with Engineering-1 skill, or the alternative a three persons with Engineering-1 skill each. Similar circumstances can arise for Stewards and Gunners, depending on demand for crew positions.

But for craft operating on tight budgets and thin profit margins, "investing" in Skill-2 rather than Skill-1 for the staffing of crew positions in Engineering, Steward and Gunnery positions can potentially be a source of enormous savings ... especially for ships with small crews (10 or less) and modest displacement tonnage, where the allocation of quarters, life support and crew salary can potentially be an expense that the craft can ill afford when it comes to balancing the books on operational expenses and determining profit margins.

Engineering-2, Steward-1 and Gunnery-2 are not difficult skill requirements to overcome within those departments.
Finding people with the necessary skills to fill positions in different departments (Skill A-2/Skill B-2) can present a much higher barrier to recruiting suitable candidates and it is recommended to not attempt such multi-disciplinary combined roles whenever possible. Having a wider pool of candidates available to crew craft adequately can sometimes be a consideration in why some business models prefer minimally qualified crew (Skill-1) rather than the alternative (Skill-2) in some crew roles.

 

[kilemall]

About to say, you aren’t getting off those pop 5- rocks with replacement crew.

Better to build in redundancy with some skill-2 and full bunks rather then be stranded and not operate at all.

What’s the price of a no-trip week or month? False economy to run so lean in danger space…

 

[Grav_Moped]

It's a fudge I'd considered (some of my designs run really close to the edge and arguably well beyond that), but in the end I chose robot crew units.

Shift/watch rotations are the big sticking point, but @kilemall 's observation is also significant: high skill levels can be used to buy redundant capability in the event some of the crew are incapacitated or worse.

Basically, I'd think the OTU wouldn't allow ships to be designed to rely on it. If the regs say you need three engineers, you're going to have to have staterooms for them (which can always be repurposed for passengers or stripped out entirely for cargo, but you can't not have them in the first place).

 

[Spinward Flow]

Then how do you explain the LBB S9, p20 Fleet Courier?

400 tons, J6, 2G, PP6, 4 Turrets @ TL=15 ... with only 5 crew.
7+5+6=18% * 400 = 72 tons of drives ... so there's 3 Engineering positions.
4 Turrets means 4 Gunner positions.
Pilot.
Navigator.
Medic.

That's a total of 10 crew positions ... but the ship lists its crew complement as being only 5 people.
10 crew positions ... filled by 5 people.
EVERYONE on that ship design is pulling "double duty" without exceptions ...

 

[Grav_Moped]

Then how do you explain the LBB S9, p20 Fleet Courier?

400 tons, J6, 2G, PP6, 4 Turrets @ TL=15 ... with only 5 crew.
7+5+6=18% * 400 = 72 tons of drives ... so there's 3 Engineering positions.
4 Turrets means 4 Gunner positions.
Pilot.
Navigator.
Medic.

That's a total of 10 crew positions ... but the ship lists its crew complement as being only 5 people.
10 crew positions ... filled by 5 people.
EVERYONE on that ship design is pulling "double duty" without exceptions ...

Best guess is using HG engineering crew rules (1:100Td drives), one gunner per battery, and dual-role the pilot/navigator.
Pilot/navigator
Medic
Missile Gunner
Laser Gunner
Engineer

Mind you, if you're using HG crew rules you should also have gunnery and engineering officers...

 

[Spinward Flow]

Best guess is using HG engineering crew rules (1:100Td drives), one gunner per battery, and dual-role the pilot/navigator.
Pilot/navigator
Medic
Missile Gunner
Laser Gunner
Engineer

Mind you, if you're using HG crew rules you should also have gunnery and engineering officers...

Except ... there's 2 batteries of lasers and 2 batteries of missiles ... so you still have 4 Gunnery positions, even if you're looking at 1 Gunner per battery. Each turret is a battery.

No matter how you slice it, the 400 ton Fleet Courier has more crew positions to fill than 5.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Except ... there's 2 batteries of lasers and 2 batteries of missiles ... so you still have 4 Gunnery positions, even if you're looking at 1 Gunner per battery. Each turret is a battery.

No matter how you slice it, the 400 ton Fleet Courier has more crew positions to fill than 5.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was designed with the weapons in one battery of each type (so, only two gunners). Later in the writing process, someone other than the original designer decided it'd be more interesting/useful to have each turret as its own battery without checking how the crew size was originally determined. Oops.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

No matter how you slice it, the 400 ton Fleet Courier has more crew positions to fill than 5.

Gunners are not mandatory, just useful if you want to fire your weapons.

It needs (by LBB2, and hence LBB5):
Pilot
Navigator
Engineer
Engineer
Medic
For a total of 5 crew.

It also has four staterooms over that can be used for gunners or passengers.

Note that the ship is built with an LBB2 manoeuvre drive, but LBB5 jump drive and PP, otherwise neither the cost nor the size would fit. Hence it has 28 + 7 + 24 = 59 Dt drives and needs two engineers.

FF-4162661-000000-40003-0        MCr 256         400 Dton
bearing           2   2                            Crew=5
batteries         2   2                             TL=15
                  Pass=4 Cargo=6 Fuel=264 EP=24 Agility=2

Single Occupancy                                      6       320
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             4            400      
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                       48
Scoops              Streamlined                                 0
                                                             
Jump Drive                             6    1        28       112
Manoeuvre D         D                  2    1         7        16
Power Plant                            6    1        24        72
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-6, 4 weeks            6       264      
Purifier                                    1         4         0
                                                             
Bridge                                      1        20         2
Computer            m/6                6    1         7        55
                                                             
Staterooms                                  9        36         5
                                                             
Cargo                                                 6      
                                                             
Triple Turret       Missile            3    2         2         5
Triple Turret       Beam               4    2         2         6
                                                             
Nominal Cost        MCr 320,44           Sum:         6       320
Class Cost          MCr  67,29          Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 256,35                                
                                                             
                                                             
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     4           5       Engineers     2
                      Low     0                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0

OK, my recreation is off by four Dt and a MCr, but pretty close.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Gunners are not mandatory, just useful if you want to fire your weapons.

Where is the facepalm emoji?
I need it for some reason ...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Gunners are not mandatory, just useful if you want to fire your weapons.

LBB2'81, p16, "SHIP CREWS":

Each ship requires a crew. ... The following basic crew positions must be filled:
Pilot: Each starship and non-starship requires a pilot, ...
Navigator: Each starship displacing greater than 200 tons must have a navigator.
Engineer: Any ship with tonnage 200 tons or more must have one engineer ... per 35 tons of drives and power plant. ...
Steward: If high passengers are carried, then a steward is required.
Medic: Each starship of 200 tons or more must have a medic ...
Gunner: One gunner ... may be hired per turret on a ship. ... The gunner postion may be omitted if there is no major threat to the ship.

Example: LBB2'81, p20:

The minimum crew necessary for the mercenary cruiser is nine: commanding officer, pilot, navigator, four engineers, and medic. Gunners, cutter pilots, troops, and administrative personnel may be added as desired.

 

[robject]

Crew doubling-up is a life saver when your ship has losses due to battle damage or other disasters unfortunate events.

And in fact, it's always a good idea to hire crew who have a back-up skill, so that you have emergency skill coverage of jobs... uh, just in case.

Therefore, it's always a bad idea to make your plans around doubling-up positions and, in particular, no crew redundancy. This is borne out with Imperial Navy ships, which typically have multiple shifts of crew. And though it's not written down, it just makes good sense.

I mean, redundancy is thankfully not an active element of ship design, but crew is plainly not intended to be the weak link. Please make sure you have a full crew roster.

 

[robject]

Also note that the ship's computer can operate as one or more ad hoc crew members when absolutely necessary.

You just don't want to have to rely on it. "I've just picked up a fault in the AE-35 unit..."

1. Plan A: have a crew with overlapping skills. This can include artificial persons.
2. Plan B: use the computer as crew until you can fill the "open" positions.
3. Plan C: use a skill wafer. Carefully. Watch the guy for signs of... well you'll know it when you see it.
4. Plan D: surrender to the next pirate ship that comes by, and then capture it. (Don't know why I put that in there, it just sounded like a cool idea.)
5. Plan E: check out that derelict ship -- the one with that distress beacon blaring DANGER DO NOT APPROACH.

...I see I'm digressing...

 

[kilemall]

Double bunking on service ships is a thing but you’re still spending life support and salary.

 

[robject]

Double bunking on service ships is a thing but you’re still spending life support and salary.

Quite so -- comfort is not as important on those ships.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Double bunking on service ships is a thing but you’re still spending life support and salary.

Quite so -- comfort is not as important on those ships.

Hence my point made above.
1x Engineer-2 costs 75% the salary and life support costs of 2x Engineer-1.
1x Gunnery-2 costs 60% the salary and life support costs of 2x Gunnery-1.

Smaller crew means less costs.
And that's before needing fewer single occupancy staterooms to accommodate everyone.
Yes, you can double occupy on some types of ships (and many military ships resort to double occupancy) ... but when you can't that is "tonnage lost" to crew staterooms that could have otherwise been saved by requiring 1x Skill-2 instead of requiring 2x Skill-1.

Skill-1 is definitely easier to recruit for ... but Skill-2 isn't that much harder to recruit for when it comes to ships of 10 or less crew.

 

[Grav_Moped]

"The average skill level of a non-player character in his assigned job (and hence the background level of the combat system) is assumed to be two." (LBB5 '80, p. 44).

 

[kilemall]

Hence my point made above.
1x Engineer-2 costs 75% the salary and life support costs of 2x Engineer-1.
1x Gunnery-2 costs 60% the salary and life support costs of 2x Gunnery-1.

Smaller crew means less costs.
And that's before needing fewer single occupancy staterooms to accommodate everyone.
Yes, you can double occupy on some types of ships (and many military ships resort to double occupancy) ... but when you can't that is "tonnage lost" to crew staterooms that could have otherwise been saved by requiring 1x Skill-2 instead of requiring 2x Skill-1.

Skill-1 is definitely easier to recruit for ... but Skill-2 isn't that much harder to recruit for when it comes to ships of 10 or less crew.

I was referring more to your assertion that the 400 ton ship had ten crew positions if fully crewed.

It’s virtually canon from the early plans on that several ships double bunk by design without resorting to the two positions/one crewman expedient.

 

[kilemall]

"The average skill level of a non-player character in his assigned job (and hence the background level of the combat system) is assumed to be two." (LBB5 '80, p. 44).

That’s professional naval ships.

 

[Grav_Moped]

When filling a second identical slot (that is, a high-skilled Engineer covering for another required-but-absent Engineer), remember the skill-level penalty applies to both positions!

Engineer-3: First position, he's Engineer-2 (3-1=2). Second position, he's Engineer-1 (he's Engineer-2 in the first position, then -1 for dual-role).

This means you can't have an Engineer-2 fill two positions, since the second will be at level 0.

This doesn't matter for things like Pilot/Navigator or Gunner/Steward since they're using dissimilar skills, only when you're using the same skill in two different crew roster positions.