The Great IMTU Poll, Part V
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
pi
Traveller wouldn't be Traveller without some piracy.
ta--
Drop tanks were one of the worst ideas even to come down the starship design sequence pike, causing more problems and questions than are even remotely worth dealing with.
Traveller wouldn't be Traveller without some piracy.
ta--
Drop tanks were one of the worst ideas even to come down the starship design sequence pike, causing more problems and questions than are even remotely worth dealing with.
Yes, and they were a shade less ugly than the near-c rock debate. Odd to think it was over a decade ago. IIRC that was around 1994-95. Does that sound right? </font>[/QUOTE]Possibly. Ah, I checked... it was 1997-1998.
'Bow sez:
I agree that it probably has to be tolerated and even encouraged in some places, but that presupposes that "the Imperium" (and each local individual with political and military control) only really cares about the major trade lanes, which may or may not be true, depending on if you want it to be so.
Etc etc. Please refer to the Great TML Piracy Debate. I'm sure I've forgotten most sticking points, but it culminated in "The Sunbeard Declaration", named after my very own pirate NPC by none other than Ian Whitchurch, one of the creators of Ditzie Spofulam:
In retrospect, it doesn't seem to do justice to "limited" actions bankrolled by governments or corporations against other governments or corporations in a local context; i.e. privateering.
Piracy - pi+ - the Imperial navy is big, but space is bigger, and it has choke-points. Not to mention that it's too easy to fall behind in your ship payments.
Tanks - ta+ - the Gazelle & Fiery are good enough for me. You can obviously at least do that much.
Detachable tanks wouldn't be too economical for civilian use, though. It would be reserved mainly for military applications or scout/exploration missions crossing unusual rifts.
Tanks - ta+ - the Gazelle & Fiery are good enough for me. You can obviously at least do that much.
Detachable tanks wouldn't be too economical for civilian use, though. It would be reserved mainly for military applications or scout/exploration missions crossing unusual rifts.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
IMTU piracy is explained as:
tradewar
rival duchies issuing letters of marque
rival planetary governments issuing letters of marque
ethically challenged merchants
raiders from the beyond
tradewar
rival duchies issuing letters of marque
rival planetary governments issuing letters of marque
ethically challenged merchants
raiders from the beyond
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
I would choose both pi+ and pi-. Not to be contrary, but I don't think that piracy, which may and can exist for the reasons given, is ultimately unsustainable. As with any thieving.
There is a reason why generally speaking theiving is not considered a good idea. Because it isn't. Theft and piracy are lousy incentives to investment, it generally makes ship captains wanting to go elsewhere, safer. People who are robbed are less willing to trade or even produce. Doubly so if the theft or piracy involves the death of the victim. Dead victims stop producing. Leaving the pirate with no one and nothing left to steal.
Piracy can work in a system for a while, perhaps, in the IMTU a year or two, without government interference. But sooner or later, the system trade dries up, or the people of the system sets about to "do something about" the pirates. Either the parasite kills the host, or the host scratches the parasite out.
There is a reason why generally speaking theiving is not considered a good idea. Because it isn't. Theft and piracy are lousy incentives to investment, it generally makes ship captains wanting to go elsewhere, safer. People who are robbed are less willing to trade or even produce. Doubly so if the theft or piracy involves the death of the victim. Dead victims stop producing. Leaving the pirate with no one and nothing left to steal.
Piracy can work in a system for a while, perhaps, in the IMTU a year or two, without government interference. But sooner or later, the system trade dries up, or the people of the system sets about to "do something about" the pirates. Either the parasite kills the host, or the host scratches the parasite out.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yup, piracy in the frontier sectors away from the monolithic Imperium no problem.
In core sectors no way.
In core sectors no way.
None of the above. I agree with the Sunbeard Declaration.
Transponders may be spoofed, bu this will not defeat Imperial units. Anti-piracy is both political, military, and paramilitary. Transponders are widespread, and effective; and piracy exists throughout the unlit corners of the Imperium, but the instances are essentially unknown outside C,D & E systems. An unarmed merchant travelling alone through D & E systems will eventually be victimized, however. Convoys, armed merchants and patrols keep these to a minimum. An unarmed merchant typically will not go unescorted through such areas.
IMTU, transponders are within the Imperium are imperial tech, and any Imperial naval or scout vessel will have the technical capability to read the encrypted metadata, to determine if a transponder signal has been altered, and how. Like a license plate, any fool can look to see what cars have what plates; if I wanted, as a layman I could ask to see someone's registration. Another merchant can read a transponder, but likely not be able to determine if it has been spoofed. As a layman, though, I can not legitimately run someone's plate, though. A merchant can record and report, but not determine the authenticty of a transponder signal. Some police cars have ALPR systems, as do most tollbooths, and other locations; AFAIK, this has not been linked federally, yet, and there are some challenges. Similarly transponder signals are automatically read, checked for registration, and results; collection and transmission is finite. However, if I have a stolen car, which has been reported stolen, and I have any sophistication, I will avoid concentrations of populations (and thus of police) to minimize my chances of a mobile ALPR hit; I will not drive the main roads, where stationary ALPR will be, and indeed I will drive very little. If I need to drive far, I will snatch some plates that are unlikely to be missed, and run the backroads before going to ground. Pirates will similarly lay low, and stick far from the circle of light. I will still likely be caught sometime, as most criminals are, but like most criminals, it will likely not be for the first crime. Serial burglars have a mean of about 75 burglaries before they are caught. Pirates will similarly be short-term yahoos, who get caught soon, or long-term types who most likely get caught later.
So a merchant with a false transponder will be spotted by any patrol ship, or by any Imperial A or B starports. Type C and D starports may or may not have transponder reading capabilities, depending on a lot of factors. Pirates usually do not use starports, not the good ones. They stick to the outsystems of backwaters. In CT, the starship encounter tables said it all: no pirates in A or B systems. I cannot say where else in the CT canon I saw it, but I got the impression that ships can read each other's transponders, and spoofing them was possible. I did not get the impression that spoofing them was possible to Imperial Navy of IISS ships. Therefore, IMTU, which I try to make as close as I can to the OTU, full time pirates stay out of the A & B starport systems altogether. They might try a ruse in a class C system, and may try to lay low in a class D or E. To survive, they have to avoid any armed merchant, unless they have a Type C and some spare major assemblies; even then, combat will be rare. If armed merchants are able to give up their cargo, and not lose their ship, they may choose to do so to survive. In some cases, they may even give up passengers.
Just as full-time pirates have to keep in the corners, some armed merchants will look for a moment for an opportunistic target to jump. In this case, the merchant will spoof their transponder.
Piracy does not have to be a stable, rational career to exist, anymore than running a meth lab does.
Transponders may be spoofed, bu this will not defeat Imperial units. Anti-piracy is both political, military, and paramilitary. Transponders are widespread, and effective; and piracy exists throughout the unlit corners of the Imperium, but the instances are essentially unknown outside C,D & E systems. An unarmed merchant travelling alone through D & E systems will eventually be victimized, however. Convoys, armed merchants and patrols keep these to a minimum. An unarmed merchant typically will not go unescorted through such areas.
IMTU, transponders are within the Imperium are imperial tech, and any Imperial naval or scout vessel will have the technical capability to read the encrypted metadata, to determine if a transponder signal has been altered, and how. Like a license plate, any fool can look to see what cars have what plates; if I wanted, as a layman I could ask to see someone's registration. Another merchant can read a transponder, but likely not be able to determine if it has been spoofed. As a layman, though, I can not legitimately run someone's plate, though. A merchant can record and report, but not determine the authenticty of a transponder signal. Some police cars have ALPR systems, as do most tollbooths, and other locations; AFAIK, this has not been linked federally, yet, and there are some challenges. Similarly transponder signals are automatically read, checked for registration, and results; collection and transmission is finite. However, if I have a stolen car, which has been reported stolen, and I have any sophistication, I will avoid concentrations of populations (and thus of police) to minimize my chances of a mobile ALPR hit; I will not drive the main roads, where stationary ALPR will be, and indeed I will drive very little. If I need to drive far, I will snatch some plates that are unlikely to be missed, and run the backroads before going to ground. Pirates will similarly lay low, and stick far from the circle of light. I will still likely be caught sometime, as most criminals are, but like most criminals, it will likely not be for the first crime. Serial burglars have a mean of about 75 burglaries before they are caught. Pirates will similarly be short-term yahoos, who get caught soon, or long-term types who most likely get caught later.
So a merchant with a false transponder will be spotted by any patrol ship, or by any Imperial A or B starports. Type C and D starports may or may not have transponder reading capabilities, depending on a lot of factors. Pirates usually do not use starports, not the good ones. They stick to the outsystems of backwaters. In CT, the starship encounter tables said it all: no pirates in A or B systems. I cannot say where else in the CT canon I saw it, but I got the impression that ships can read each other's transponders, and spoofing them was possible. I did not get the impression that spoofing them was possible to Imperial Navy of IISS ships. Therefore, IMTU, which I try to make as close as I can to the OTU, full time pirates stay out of the A & B starport systems altogether. They might try a ruse in a class C system, and may try to lay low in a class D or E. To survive, they have to avoid any armed merchant, unless they have a Type C and some spare major assemblies; even then, combat will be rare. If armed merchants are able to give up their cargo, and not lose their ship, they may choose to do so to survive. In some cases, they may even give up passengers.
Just as full-time pirates have to keep in the corners, some armed merchants will look for a moment for an opportunistic target to jump. In this case, the merchant will spoof their transponder.
Piracy does not have to be a stable, rational career to exist, anymore than running a meth lab does.
Basically onboard with this, except IMTU the merchants often don't run with transponders at ALL in C/D/E systems. It's viewed as a 'please kill me' sign, and my TC isn't willing to push the issue if the patrol ships are not available.
A difference of degree and support. Meth creates a market. But in the above scenario, piracy annoys corporations which have large reserves of money and political power. It's rather more likely that corporations would buy out said pirates and sic them on rival corporations. Thus we have the true nature of piracy in Traveller.
I've created a poll on the individual points of The Sunbeard Declaration, by the way, and in doing so I am surprised to find that I disagree with a significant portion of it.
Mike Wightman has already listed the canon elements that I think cause a problem with the Declaration. In effect, Sunbeard equivocates (unintentionally) by lumping all piracy into a lone ship (or small fleet) and its crew, with all states against it, with no means of support except for piracy.
By that definition, the Declaration may be correct. But I think it is a limited and, in the end, incorrect view of piracy in the OTU.
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