The Hinterworlds Rambler
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What is it? Are they Allies? Trade Partners? Enemies? Hmmm? Canonistas? What say you?
Third Imperium/Julian Protectorate Diplomatic Situation
- Thread starter The Hinterworlds Rambler
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mike wightman
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The Julian Protectorate are the only polity that has ever beaten the 3rd Imperium.
That was all long ago so there is probably a lot of cross border trade and cordial diplomatic relations.
The Julian Protectorate are the only polity that has ever beaten the 3rd Imperium.
Border disputes were settled long ago, but there is probably some clandestine manipulations going on by both parties in order to sell themselves to the border planets - na and client states, not to mention vargr worlds.
Lots of MegaCorporation intrigue too.
The Julian Protectorate are the only polity that has ever beaten the 3rd Imperium.
That was all long ago so there is probably a lot of cross border trade and cordial diplomatic relations.
The Julian Protectorate are the only polity that has ever beaten the 3rd Imperium.
Border disputes were settled long ago, but there is probably some clandestine manipulations going on by both parties in order to sell themselves to the border planets - na and client states, not to mention vargr worlds.
Lots of MegaCorporation intrigue too.
The Julian Protectorate are the only polity that has ever beaten the 3rd Imperium.
For more about the Julian Protectorate, I would point you to the article on the JP in Challenge #49 (or was it #59, I can't really remember), a lot of which was repeated and integrated into Falkayn's website on the Julian Protectorate. You can also find more info in the Stellar Reaches #1, #2 and the upcoming #3 issues.
Hope that helps,
Flynn
Hope that helps,
Flynn
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The hardback T4 Milieu 0 Campaign book has quite a bit about the Julian War too.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Oh, and Flynn's memory hasn't failed him yet 
it is indeed in Challenge 49.
it is indeed in Challenge 49.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
"The Julian Protectorate are the only polity that has ever beaten the 3rd Imperium."
The Zhos did pretty well out of several of the Frontier Wars, and the 3I certainly didn't win the Rim War.
The Zhos did pretty well out of several of the Frontier Wars, and the 3I certainly didn't win the Rim War.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
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aha! I knew I had recently read a great Article on the JP, and where would that be but in Stellar Reaches?
The Baron already knows this, but for other JP fans, my website is at:
http://www.falkayn.com
<Zhondai Mind Control> ... I wasn't here, no one saw me do it ... </Zhondai Mind Control>
http://www.falkayn.com
<Zhondai Mind Control> ... I wasn't here, no one saw me do it ... </Zhondai Mind Control>
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Just to expand on that, the Imperium only won one of the five Frontier Wars with the Zhodani. (Which was, conveniently, the last one.) After every other one of the wars the Imperium was forced to surrender worlds. One of the wars was botched so badly (the Second, I think) that it directly lead to the Civil War period in the Imperium.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Have the Imperium actually won any of the frontier wars?
The first was a case of they lost the war but won the final battle, with Plankwell taking his victorious fleet to cause mayhem in the Imperial core. Many previously nonaligned worlds were incorporated into the Imperium to make up for the worlds lost to the Zhodani et al.
The second is also cited as an Imperial victory, despite all of the worlds lost, and Arbellatra took her fleet to end the civil war.
The third was a straight defeat for the Imperium.
The fourth was a draw, and the outcome of the fifth was a return to the pre-war status quo - another draw, although the Sword Worlds were broken up.
The Julian "we beat the Imperium" mentality I quoted earlier was in answer to how do diplomats see things on the Imperial/Julian border.
The truth is different, but to the Julians, they are the only ones to soundly beat the Imperium.
After all, five frontiers wars later and the Imperium is still growing into the Spinward Marches - as others have said in the past the Zhodani strategy appears to have been to limit Imperial growth rather than to defeat the Imperium totally.
No that they could, of course
The first was a case of they lost the war but won the final battle, with Plankwell taking his victorious fleet to cause mayhem in the Imperial core. Many previously nonaligned worlds were incorporated into the Imperium to make up for the worlds lost to the Zhodani et al.
The second is also cited as an Imperial victory, despite all of the worlds lost, and Arbellatra took her fleet to end the civil war.
The third was a straight defeat for the Imperium.
The fourth was a draw, and the outcome of the fifth was a return to the pre-war status quo - another draw, although the Sword Worlds were broken up.
The Julian "we beat the Imperium" mentality I quoted earlier was in answer to how do diplomats see things on the Imperial/Julian border.
The truth is different, but to the Julians, they are the only ones to soundly beat the Imperium.
After all, five frontiers wars later and the Imperium is still growing into the Spinward Marches - as others have said in the past the Zhodani strategy appears to have been to limit Imperial growth rather than to defeat the Imperium totally.
No that they could, of course
daryen
SOC-14 1K
The Imperials unequivocably won the Fifth Frontier War. They successfully repelled the Zhodani invasion, broke the Sword Worlds, and mangled the Vargr.
They didn't gain any "territory", but that wasn't their goal. Their goal was to maintain, which they did, and weaken their enemies, which they did.
(And while, techinically, they didn't gain any territory, they actually did. Esalin went from joint control to Imperial jurisdiction.)
And you are correct on the Zhodani. (From what I have read, anyway.) The whole point of the Zhodani attacks were to stop Imperial expansion in that direction and create neutral buffer states. While the succeeded (for the most part) on the first goal, they never really managed to finish the second. (Basically, they wanted to split the Jewel subsector off from the Imperium and make it into a neutral state.)
They didn't gain any "territory", but that wasn't their goal. Their goal was to maintain, which they did, and weaken their enemies, which they did.
(And while, techinically, they didn't gain any territory, they actually did. Esalin went from joint control to Imperial jurisdiction.)
And you are correct on the Zhodani. (From what I have read, anyway.) The whole point of the Zhodani attacks were to stop Imperial expansion in that direction and create neutral buffer states. While the succeeded (for the most part) on the first goal, they never really managed to finish the second. (Basically, they wanted to split the Jewel subsector off from the Imperium and make it into a neutral state.)
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
Andrew is correct. The Imperium did not "win" the Solomani Rim War. The only way they could have won the Rim War is if the Imperium had forced the Solomani SECESSIONISTS into unconditional surrender and dissolved the entire Confederation, plus an agreement to re-absorb ALL 6 Solomani Sphere sectors back into the Third Imperium.
None of that happened. In other words, the Solomani Sphere, which once was an integral part of the Third Imperium, successfully seceeded from the empire, and separated itself permanently from the 3I.
The 3I really does not have a solid history of winning many wars.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It does in the Imperial version of history books.
Take the Rim war for example.
The Imperium succeeded in taking back the territory of the Vilani Imperium, and most of the Terran Confederation.
It only really took about a quarter of the Solomani Sphere.
How do you think they'll spin it in the "official" history books?
Ok, I will take a shot at it...
The Imperial textbook on the War might read something like this...
"Our valiant and brave soldiers who fought against the Solomani Rebels that sought to impose a change of the Imperial government by force. Our superior forces were able to smash the resistance by the reincorporation of Terra back into the Imperium.
This victory came a heavy price for both sides, but it was inevitable that the Imperium had to act somewhat tyrannically to preserve the liberty of all its citizens regardless whether they were human or not.
Our founding documents clearly express the Rights of Equity for all sophonts, not just a select few as those breakaway factions in the Rim espouse. Those nobles that disgraced themselves by taking up republicianism have now shown themselves not to be Noble but rather power hungry opportunists who have replaced our magnificent Imperial form government with a totalitarian state.
Naturally, the Rim War showed the many fissures and cracks in our society. Notwithstanding, our wise leaders in industry and in the State have seen to it that the course to take is Reform not Revolution.
It is therefore incumbent upon all citizens to question and put themselves into service of the Imperium. Apply and serve for the glory of the Imperium and our beloved Emperor, who guides us and nurtures us. It is hoped one day soon that those that remain in former Solomani Sphere will join us again in this noble and proud enterprise."
The Imperial textbook on the War might read something like this...
"Our valiant and brave soldiers who fought against the Solomani Rebels that sought to impose a change of the Imperial government by force. Our superior forces were able to smash the resistance by the reincorporation of Terra back into the Imperium.
This victory came a heavy price for both sides, but it was inevitable that the Imperium had to act somewhat tyrannically to preserve the liberty of all its citizens regardless whether they were human or not.
Our founding documents clearly express the Rights of Equity for all sophonts, not just a select few as those breakaway factions in the Rim espouse. Those nobles that disgraced themselves by taking up republicianism have now shown themselves not to be Noble but rather power hungry opportunists who have replaced our magnificent Imperial form government with a totalitarian state.
Naturally, the Rim War showed the many fissures and cracks in our society. Notwithstanding, our wise leaders in industry and in the State have seen to it that the course to take is Reform not Revolution.
It is therefore incumbent upon all citizens to question and put themselves into service of the Imperium. Apply and serve for the glory of the Imperium and our beloved Emperor, who guides us and nurtures us. It is hoped one day soon that those that remain in former Solomani Sphere will join us again in this noble and proud enterprise."
Greetngs and salutations,
Since I do not have my books with me at the moment to check on this, I thought the Solomani Sphere and the 3I signed an armistice. If so, did a peace treaty follow? If not, that did not end the war completely. It just declares that both sides would stop shooting at each other for the moment.
I use the Korean War as the reference for this point. Technically, the Korean War is still an onging war that no one is shooting at each other at the moment. Therefore, if one of the Koreas decided that they wanted to invade the other, they can claim it is to end the war and use what ever paperwork to back their claim(s).
While we are on the subject, did the 3I sign armistices AND/OR peace treaties with anyone else they have been at war? If not, then the 3I better start protecting its borders and hindquarters.
Hmm, that sounds like something evil I can add to a campaign or something. One side sends in the PCs for a preemptive strike, a botched rescue, or something and the other side sees it as a pre-invasion or something along those lines.
Anyhow, what is your concensus?
Since I do not have my books with me at the moment to check on this, I thought the Solomani Sphere and the 3I signed an armistice. If so, did a peace treaty follow? If not, that did not end the war completely. It just declares that both sides would stop shooting at each other for the moment.
I use the Korean War as the reference for this point. Technically, the Korean War is still an onging war that no one is shooting at each other at the moment. Therefore, if one of the Koreas decided that they wanted to invade the other, they can claim it is to end the war and use what ever paperwork to back their claim(s).
While we are on the subject, did the 3I sign armistices AND/OR peace treaties with anyone else they have been at war? If not, then the 3I better start protecting its borders and hindquarters.
Hmm, that sounds like something evil I can add to a campaign or something. One side sends in the PCs for a preemptive strike, a botched rescue, or something and the other side sees it as a pre-invasion or something along those lines.
Anyhow, what is your concensus?
