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Thoughts on Eneri (Corridor) Sector etc.

BRover

SOC-12
When the Vilani Imperium was established, the borders were frozen, by decree. However, in the areas assigned to Makhidkarun, this was not always quite true.

First, the decree of border stasis contradicted an earlier principle not allowing rival star-faring entities beyond the border. When two such principles conflict, how is a bureau to decide? Well, if there is self-interest, that is usually the deciding factor.

In the case of Naasirka (from the Shugilii), conservatism would favor stasis.

In the case of Starurshid (the Merchants and Businessmen), profit would favor trade, but not conquest, which tends to be expensive.

In the case of Makhidkiarun (the nobles), though, expanded control and order would favor a (minor) adjustment or expansion. I see a cycle, that might take decades or centuries to run:

1. Rebels, pirates, smugglers, and outlaws in general cross the border for safer harbor. Even Jump-1 ships can cross, with extra fuel tanks. Over time, they establish colonies in independent systems, are joined by enterprising free traders seeking markets, and such. They also establish or discover places that allow "regular" trips across voids--rogue planets, void stations, and suchlike. But, apart from such needs, these locals would generally be limited to Jump-1 (given Vilani tech) and would tend to fill up the local cluster more often than jumping to the next.

2. The independent colonies tend to gather into rough polities or networks, especially those that can establish some sort of trade with the Imperium. This draws the attention of the local powers that be.

3. Nobles come to fear the growing out-border powers, or desire greater areas to control, or grow tired of pirate raids, and so on--so they send a small force to take an area, effectively pushing the border out a few parsecs. Note that, being Imperials, they would have access to Jump-2 ships (and larger ships and ground units!) allowing easy jumps to the next cluster.

4. The locals being conquered, or under threat of conquering, are driven to push even further out to found or strengthen further colonies, starting the cycle anew.

This would be especially noticeable in Corridor sector, given its limited opportunities for expansion and its series of small to moderate clusters. I suspect that the Imperium would tend to grow, over its history, from the Vland sector border to roughly the Corridor/Deneb border--especially since the arrival of the Vargr would further slow expansion.

Is this a reasonable scenario? What else might affect it?
 
Another result: as I was looking at the area, I came across (again) the detail that Deneb is not the Deneb visible in the Earth's sky. (It's far too close and in the wrong direction.) Now, the actual Deneb is not well known--especially its distance. Disclaimer: My calculations may be wonky, but I'm assuming that "Coreward" = Galactic Longitude 0, "Spinward" = Longitude 90, etc., and hexes are 1 parsec, which puts spinward-trailing distances at .866 pc per hex row.)

IF all that is true, and Deneb is 802 ± 66 pc away, that puts it in (roughly) Sector -29 ± 2 / -1, quite a ways to spinward from Charted Space.

More interesting (to me) is a recent (2007) analysis of Hipparcos data that puts it at (most likely) 475 pc, with a range from 565 to 410 possible. I've also seen 433 pc cited. Where do these points put the star (Galactic longitude 84.3-deg)?

475 pc: Sector (-17/-2) hex 1620
433 pc: Sector (-15/-2) hex 0124, possibly Sec.(16/-2) hex 4023.

Traveller Map puts these in the sectors Pytheus Interior-Idirda-Kaalin Ulterior. So the Great Rift Adventure might get within a sector or two of Deneb!
 
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Another thought: FTL (and spaceships in general) is sure a huge advantage when it comes to astronomy!

Miss an event, and go 1 parsec further off, and you have 3 years to prepare to record it.

Go to one or the other side, and get a different perspective. Maybe avoid some intervening object that blocks the view.

Go towards a star or nebula or whatever, and see it at progressively later dates.
With a star like Deneb, one or two jumps would allow instant and pretty accurate determination of distance. Likewise, jumping towards (or away) from Deneb would allow observation of centuries of evolution of the star.

And then there is the whole "observing from beyond the atmosphere gives a greatly superior view" thing--no atmospheric refraction to (expensively) compensate for, no blocked wavelengths, and so on.
 
There's also the advantage of your starship being its own Kinda Long Baseline Array (collecting data from multiple points and collating them into a single image for higher resolution).

Jump a few parsecs sideways (allowing for lightspeed lag) for additional data points.

Basically, a very-small-scale version of the canon Project Longbow (Trav Wiki).

This sort of thing could be used to find the physical characteristics of a world's UWP from quite a distance. This would be useful if you're trying to cross a rift in uncharted space and want to be sure you can refuel when you get to the other side. (I vaguely remember that the rules say you can determine presence of a gas giant from 1 hex range, but am probably wrong in this.)
 
This sort of thing could be used to find the physical characteristics of a world's UWP from quite a distance. This would be useful if you're trying to cross a rift in uncharted space and want to be sure you can refuel when you get to the other side. (I vaguely remember that the rules say you can determine presence of a gas giant from 1 hex range, but am probably wrong in this.)

I remember that too about giant planets. It seems pretty conservative, given high tech optics and imaging plus vacuum-good viewing conditions.
 
I remember that too about giant planets. It seems pretty conservative, given high tech optics and imaging plus vacuum-good viewing conditions.
It's not too unreasonable given the state of the art when the game was written in the late '70s/early '80s.

The first confirmed exoplanet was discovered in 1992, followed by confirmation of a suspected exoplanet first observed in 1988. Wikipedia

On the other hand, it looks like most of the exoplanets we've found so far are at 20-60 parsecs distance...
 
It's not too unreasonable given the state of the art when the game was written in the late '70s/early '80s.

The first confirmed exoplanet was discovered in 1992, followed by confirmation of a suspected exoplanet first observed in 1988. Wikipedia

On the other hand, it looks like most of the exoplanets we've found so far are at 20-60 parsecs distance...

On the other hand, detecting those exoplanets took extensive observations over time--months or years. I'd rather not have to wait a full term to find a planet three hexes over . . .
 
There's also the advantage of your starship being its own Kinda Long Baseline Array (collecting data from multiple points and collating them into a single image for higher resolution).

Jump a few parsecs sideways (allowing for lightspeed lag) for additional data points.

Basically, a very-small-scale version of the canon Project Longbow (Trav Wiki).

This sort of thing could be used to find the physical characteristics of a world's UWP from quite a distance. This would be useful if you're trying to cross a rift in uncharted space and want to be sure you can refuel when you get to the other side. (I vaguely remember that the rules say you can determine presence of a gas giant from 1 hex range, but am probably wrong in this.)


This principle is why I don't really worry about dish sizes in overwrought attention to sensors. Hull-mounted sensor clusters do the deed.



The limiting factors are more how quickly one can stitch together sensor readings, mostly driven by signal strength and time to get resolution, said time driven by computing power.
 
This principle is why I don't really worry about dish sizes in overwrought attention to sensors. Hull-mounted sensor clusters do the deed.

The limiting factors are more how quickly one can stitch together sensor readings, mostly driven by signal strength and time to get resolution, said time driven by computing power.

Excellent point!

And another reason for better computers (better than you have now)!
 
I vaguely remember that the rules say you can determine presence of a gas giant from 1 hex range, but am probably wrong in this.)
AM 1 Aslan sayeth...
Gas giants can be detected in a star system by the ships' computer:
the referee secretly determines if there is a gas giant present
in the unknown system and rolls 1 D; DM +ships computer
model (Model14 would give DM + 4). If the result is 10 + , the computer
has detected the gas giant if one is present. A computer cannot
detect the absence of a gas giant.
Since that process refers to systems up to 3 parsecs away...
I'll note that the system is not producing comparable density to the standard mapping routines.
 
AM 1 Aslan sayeth...

And AM 3 Vargr sayeth...
Modern starships can detect worlds at a distance of up to 2 parsecs. From any specific star system, players may ask for details of other nearby star systems. The referee can indicate that their instruments can provide limited data. After about one day of readings, they can reliably tell the location of all systems within two parsecs. Further, they can tell if each system has a gas giant present.

So I figure you can take your pick, depending on how much you want PCs to have to fiddle around with the process, and whether or not you have at least sketched out the stars ahead. Note that in the Vargr scenario, the characters are working from a minimal starmap that only shows the primaries. AM 4 Zhodani has also features the rules as given in AM 1 Aslan for mapping "unknown" (i.e., not mapped-out at all by the ref ahead of time) space.

(Also, note that we can presently detect GGs around stars from many, many parsecs away using TL8 telescopes and a bit of patience.)
 
And AM 3 Vargr sayeth...


So I figure you can take your pick, depending on how much you want PCs to have to fiddle around with the process, and whether or not you have at least sketched out the stars ahead. Note that in the Vargr scenario, the characters are working from a minimal starmap that only shows the primaries. AM 4 Zhodani has also features the rules as given in AM 1 Aslan for mapping "unknown" (i.e., not mapped-out at all by the ref ahead of time) space.

(Also, note that we can presently detect GGs around stars from many, many parsecs away using TL8 telescopes and a bit of patience.)


Most detections to date are radial velocity or occultation -
both of which only work with relatively close gas giants, of the types that CT/MT/TNE/T4/T20 almost never generate.

Moreover, the radial velocity requires a relatively large mass gas giant; the closer, the smaller it can be.

Stellar occultation (literally seeing it cross the star's glow) can find fairly small worlds...

but both need multiple passes to make it happen. And that equals multiple orbits.

So it is more likely direct imaging that's being used, with short baseline interferometry to allow upping the world and lowering the star...

Technically, the needed tech for radial velocity is available at TL 6... the earliest CCDs and mainframes... but whether old or new, it's at the least a week or more to find even orbit 0 LGGs, because you have to see at least one orbit to get the shift, and one to confirm it.
 
I'm thinking that having starships itself makes detecting easier:

1. You know what to look for, and have better ideas how to look. after several dozen (or thousand+) different systems have been scanned. Even something like, say, knowing how to figure out a star's axis of rotation and then where planets will be most likely can help.

2. The possibility of different perspectives is helpful as well, especially if there is some way to get longer VLBI sensing. Maybe scouts/military ships have some kind of deployable sensors for the purpose? It would seem very doable to get a few hundred meter diameter dish, rather than a meter or so (single sensor) or a few meters (ship hull sensors). Likewise, ship's smallcraft could serve the purpose.
 
I'm thinking that having starships itself makes detecting easier:

1. You know what to look for, and have better ideas how to look. after several dozen (or thousand+) different systems have been scanned. Even something like, say, knowing how to figure out a star's axis of rotation and then where planets will be most likely can help.

2. The possibility of different perspectives is helpful as well, especially if there is some way to get longer VLBI sensing. Maybe scouts/military ships have some kind of deployable sensors for the purpose? It would seem very doable to get a few hundred meter diameter dish, rather than a meter or so (single sensor) or a few meters (ship hull sensors). Likewise, ship's smallcraft could serve the purpose.

Or Jump a parsec sideways. :)
 
Or Jump a parsec sideways. :)

True--though that might add to VLBI complications. And would not make for a simple rule, since you are no longer observing from one point.

Still, I can see extending the rules for this case--say detect at 2 pc/hexes from one system; if you can observe from an adjacent hex extend that to 4 or 5 pc range? And you could observe several hexes before and after the jump, so it's not just looking at one system.
 
True--though that might add to VLBI complications. And would not make for a simple rule, since you are no longer observing from one point.

Still, I can see extending the rules for this case--say detect at 2 pc/hexes from one system; if you can observe from an adjacent hex extend that to 4 or 5 pc range? And you could observe several hexes before and after the jump, so it's not just looking at one system.

That's not bad at all. Hadn't thought about checking multiple systems in the same survey, but it's obvious now that you mention it.
 
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That's not bad at all. Hadn't thought about checking multiple systems in the same survey, but it's obvious now that you mention it.

This, combined with the "short" baseline interferometry aramis mentioned, is probably why it takes a week but you can get results for everything nearby; the ship needs to fly around its current location a bit to make multiple observations, but each time it gets itself repositioned, it is a relatively simple matter to look in all directions.
 
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