TL 11 Armed Tender/Coustoms Cutter (TNE)

[Sir Brad]

Working on a TL-11 Armed Tender for use by the Montezuma Navy, I'm looking at 200 D-tons M2 J1 with an Overpowered Plant to support the TL-11 Turret Lasers, A Squad of Armsmen/Hands and A Cargo hold/vehicle bay.

Could I get some help with a few examples and feed back on what I come up with?

 

[jappel]

I'm sure once you post a design there will be plenty of feedback!

 

[Sir Brad]

ATM I'm trying to convert Specs to game Stats, unfortunately "Brilliant Lancers" isn't as easy to quick build with as CT or other Trav rule sets, I'm half way through assigning the Electronics, I'm frightened I'll run out of space before I get done. especially with Combatant Grade Sensors at TL 11 and the P-Plant I need to run them and overpower the Lasers by two levels. Rough Guess is 8 Crew and 8 Armsmen/Additional Hands.

I'm starting a TNE game in the next few weeks and the characters got a Modified Free Trader. being totally unimpressed by my few attempts to upgrade a TL-10 Type-A to a combatant (even upgrading components to TL-11) I decided to go from the ground up.

 

[Starviking]

Sir Brad,

I have a few TNE spreadsheets from the old days that make the TNE Ship Building process quick and painless. Drop me a PM and I'll try and get them mailed off to you asap.

 

[atpollard]

...that make the TNE Ship Building process quick and painless.

Perhaps quicker and less painfull, but quick and painless seems unlikely.

 

[Starviking]

Perhaps quicker and less painfull, but quick and painless seems unlikely.

I guess my physics degree inured me to such pain...

...in fact I rather like it

 

[Jame]

Working on a TL-11 Armed Tender for use by the Montezuma Navy, I'm looking at 200 D-tons M2 J1 with an Overpowered Plant to support the TL-11 Turret Lasers, A Squad of Armsmen/Hands and A Cargo hold/vehicle bay.

Could I get some help with a few examples and feed back on what I come up with?

I would say a 400 to 600 ton vessel for more small craft such as fighters. Other than that I think you have it down quite nicely.

 

[far-trader]

Sir Brad, if pressed for time (TNE designs take time) or not a fan of the design process may I suggest the B.A.R.D. pages:

http://www.downport.com/bard/bard.html

(specifically the S.A.R.A. section there for your ship needs)

Peruse and you may find something close enough to your needs.

 

[Sir Brad]

I'm going to have to pull my finger out on this one, as the Campaign starts this weekend and all I have is a Fudge version of the Ship and it's sister ships in the Class in Montazuman Hands, and even further a field, Joke is one character rolled a (near) mint condition Armed Free Trader on the Warship column of the Ships Table all on her own, the only other Ship Credit couldn't move it up enough to become a Armed Far Trader.

For the other Ships in the Class I'm going with Barbettes (Laser & Missile) Fitted but their likely in as good a condition as the Falcon Rampant.

 

[atpollard]

I guess my physics degree inured me to such pain...

...in fact I rather like it

Only slightly off topic, but

Given:
1 dTon = 14 cubic meters
the equation for calculating the volume of a sphere
TNE length = diameter of equivalent sphere

Compare the listed tonnages, length, and surface area for the hulls in FF&S1.
See if you find what I found?

 

[Starviking]

I'm going to have to pull my finger out on this one, as the Campaign starts this weekend and all I have is a Fudge version of the Ship and it's sister ships in the Class in Montazuman Hands, and even further a field, Joke is one character rolled a (near) mint condition Armed Free Trader on the Warship column of the Ships Table all on her own, the only other Ship Credit couldn't move it up enough to become a Armed Far Trader.

For the other Ships in the Class I'm going with Barbettes (Laser & Missile) Fitted but their likely in as good a condition as the Falcon Rampant.

Well you could take the rolled ship with a pinch of salt. Here's a few interesting options that come to mind:

* Ship was an Armed Far Trader, but drive damage has reduced the jump capability to one parsec.

* Ship was a custom designed Customs Cutter, and thus only really needed J-1 for in-system work. However, as the colonial power (Gresham) was providing some funds for the ship it had to be designed to be easily upgraded to J-2. This just requires some additional components to be slotted into the drive - but as the drive's provider was TL-15, it may be hard to get said components. Why not just build the ship totally J-2? Easy, the Montezuman Colonial Office didn't want the Gresham Space Navy to be able to call-up their ships on a whim.

Those two options provide a clear campaign hook, i.e. upgrade/repair Jump Drive, and you could always rule that the latter (custom cutter) allows jump 1 to be performed with the efficiency of a J-2 drive.

One additional thing, if the ship is a Customs Cutter, it should either have at least 2-3 Gs of acceleration - to overhaul Traders or overhaul/pace Scouts - or have auxiliaries that can.

BTW - how do your characters get this ship from the Montezumans?

 

[Starviking]

Only slightly off topic, but

Given:
1 dTon = 14 cubic meters
the equation for calculating the volume of a sphere
TNE length = diameter of equivalent sphere

Compare the listed tonnages, length, and surface area for the hulls in FF&S1.
See it you find what I found?

Sorry, just got back to the forum - I see you've found a rounding error...interesting!

 

[Sir Brad]

The Characters are all Montezumans, the Capitan is a Montezuman Noble with a Navy Career, the Chief Electronics "Officer" is Gnostic Brotherhood, the "Talent" is from the Institute and the last character is a Army/Special Forces Officer

 

[Starviking]

The Characters are all Montezumans, the Capitan is a Montezuman Noble with a Navy Career, the Chief Electronics "Officer" is Gnostic Brotherhood, the "Talent" is from the Institute and the last character is a Army/Special Forces Officer

Sounds interesting! I look forward to reading about their adventures (and the final specs of their ship, I's a real gearhead).

 

[Sir Brad]

Ok thanks for the Spread Sheets, got a question or two Do I have to allocate Crew Staterooms? since If I have to well I've got 701 KL free and I'll lose 504 to minimum Crew Accommodation. and 14 D Tons of Cargo and Modular Space just doesn't suit the ship's intended role, where as 50 D Tons I can kind of live with (even if I have to lose the small Craft). Next question how do I assign Crew to multiple roles, EG: putting the Navigator as a Small Craft Pilot and one of the Command Staff as the Chief Engineer and such?

So Far this is what I've got, less Cargo as I'm not sure how on Crew Accommodation.

General Data											
Displacement: 200 tons				Hull Armor: 20							
Length: 43.72 meters				Volume: 2800 m3							
Price: MCr 240.3				#NAME?							
Configuration: Streamlined Wedge				Tech Level: 11							
Mass (Loaded/Empty): 3481.7 / 3428.5											
											
Engineering Data											
Power Plant: 1115 MW Fusion Power Plant, 1 year duration (167.25 m3 fuel)											
Jump Performance: 1 (280 m3 fuel)											
G-Rating: 2G HEPlaR (100 MW/G), Auxiliary Improved CG (40 MW)											
G-Turns: 25 (47.4 using jump fuel), 12.5 m3 fuel each											
Maint: 154											
											
Electronics											
Computer: 3xTL-11 Standard computer (0.35 MW)											
Commo: Maser (Unlimited; 0.6 MW), Radio (10 hex; 10 MW)											
Avionics: Imaging EMS, IGS positioning, 150 km/h NOE											
Sensors: AEMS (0.01 hex; 8 MW), PEMS (3 hex; 0.15 MW), 											
ECM/ECCM: EM Masking (2.8 MW)											
Controls: Bridge with 10 bridge workstations, 14 normal workstations											
											
Armament											
Offensive: Laser Turret (166.68 MW; No crew), Laser Turret (166.68 MW; No crew)											
Defensive: 											
Master Fire Directors: 2xTL-11 (3 Diff Mods; 10 hex; Msl 10 hex; 6.54 MW; 1 crew)											
											
Accommodations											
Life Support: Extended (0.4002 MW), Gravitic Compensators (10.005 MW)											
Crew: 36 (2xManeuver, 1xElectronics, 14xEngineer, 2xGunnery, 2xMaintenance, 8xShip's Troops, 2xFlight, 5xCommand)											
Crew Accommodations: Cockpit											
Passengers: None											
Passenger Accommodations: None											
Other Facilities: None											
Cargo: 0 m3 (0 tons), 2 Small Hatch											
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 1x10-ton SL grapple											
Air Locks: 2											
											
Notes											
Total Fuel Tankage: 759.7475 m3 (54.3 tons) 											
Fuel scoops (10% of ship surface), fills tanks in 0.68 hours											
Fuel purification machinery (1.33MW), 24 hours to refine 759.7475 m3.											
493.9 MW power surplus											
											
Damage tables											
Surface Hits			Internal Explosion			Systems		Systems		Systems	
Air Locks	0.1		Elec	3.7		#NAME?		#NAME?		LB	
Antenna	1.7		Hold	0.4		#NAME?		LSR-None		LT	
Cargo hatch	0		Fuel	7.1		AL-2x1h		#NAME?		MB	
EMM Rad	0.4		Qtrs	0.8		#NAME?		#NAME?		MG	
Launch ports	0.6		Eng	6.7		#NAME?		MS-None		MT	
Screens	0		Weap	0.8		EMM Rad-2h		ND-None		NDB	
Total	2.8		Total	19.5		#NAME?		#NAME?		NDT	
						#NAME?		#NAME?		PA	
Other Surface Locations						#NAME?		#NAME?		TS	
Man drive	1.1					#NAME?		SSR-None			
Jump drive	0.3					LBth-None					
Weapons	0.4										
Total	1.8

 

[Starviking]

Ok thanks for the Spread Sheets, got a question or two Do I have to allocate Crew Staterooms? since If I have to well I've got 701 KL free and I'll lose 504 to minimum Crew Accommodation. and 14 D Tons of Cargo and Modular Space just doesn't suit the ship's intended role, where as 50 D Tons I can kind of live with (even if I have to lose the small Craft). Next question how do I assign Crew to multiple roles, EG: putting the Navigator as a Small Craft Pilot and one of the Command Staff as the Chief Engineer and such?

So Far this is what I've got, less Cargo as I'm not sure how on Crew Accommodation.

With Crew staterooms it's up to you what to do: 2 Crew for one stateroom - if you're being nice, over 2 to a stateroom (hot bunking) if you're space-limited. For troops I usually pack 4 into a large stateroom, as it seems more troop-like.

For multiple roles you can do what you will - but remember they can't be in two places at once, and some crew are tough to replace (do you want to lose your navigator in a small-craft accident?). Speaking of small craft - you could have some of the troops trained in small craft operation.

Onto the ship -

The G-turns look a bit low, as a paramilitary craft it'd be nice to have 40+ G-turns available after jump.

Better sensors might be nice, if the tech limit allows 'em.

I'd only assign one MFD myself - two seems a bit of overkill for a ship with limited armament, as if it gets into a slugging match with two ships it'll probably be coming off the worse.

You might also want to cut down the power plant a bit - almost half your crew is assigned to it - maybe de-rate the lasers a bit?

Last point - having the small craft in a grapple bring the ship displacement up to 210dT, if you're basing it off a free trader then the jump drive would be an upgrade. A docking ring would enable you to drop it down to 200dT.

Starviking

 

[aramis]

Canonical requirements are at least one bunk or one-half stateroom per crewman. Anything more crowded than that is not permitted except for passengers outside the imperium.

So yes, staterooms, 1 per 2 crew. Officers should have 1 stateroom each.

 

[Sir Brad]

When cooking up the Fudge version I did it in CT first, the crew numbers came back much lower coming all out of the Technical & Engineering section.

As for AstroNav, well the ship is actually just a SDB that has a Relic Technology J-Drive that even back in the day was hardaly ever used, so even in the days of the Last Imperium the Navigator was mostly just a Legality

going over the numbers again and found the Power-plant out put is not self calculating, if I drop it back to minimum all systems on I lose almost half the Tech Crew requirement and a slice of the Command Staff, Drop the MFD's and one of the Electronics guys goes and found I can fudge the Flight Crew I end up with 65 D Tons left even with the ships boat in an Internal Hanger, that's before I over power the Lasers, just got to figure the MW needed to over power the Lasers by hand an input the figures.

Hears the amended ship, less Laser Overpower.

General Data											
Displacement: 200 tons				Hull Armor: 20							
Length: 43.72 meters				Volume: 2800 m3							
Price: MCr 117.8				#NAME?							
Configuration: Streamlined Wedge				Tech Level: 11							
Mass (Loaded/Empty): 2611.8 / 2334.6											
											
Engineering Data											
Power Plant: 609 MW Fusion Power Plant, 1 year duration (91.35 m3 fuel)											
Jump Performance: 1 (280 m3 fuel)											
G-Rating: 2G HEPlaR (100 MW/G), Auxiliary Improved CG (40 MW)											
G-Turns: 25 (47.4 using jump fuel), 12.5 m3 fuel each											
Maint: 111											
											
Electronics											
Computer: 3xTL-11 Standard computer (0.35 MW)											
Commo: Maser (Unlimited; 0.6 MW), Radio (10 hex; 10 MW)											
Avionics: Imaging EMS, IGS positioning, 150 km/h NOE											
Sensors: AEMS (0.01 hex; 8 MW), PEMS (3 hex; 0.15 MW), 											
ECM/ECCM: EM Masking (2.8 MW)											
Controls: Bridge with 6 bridge workstations, 8 normal workstations											
											
Armament											
Offensive: Laser Turret (166.68 MW; No crew), Laser Turret (166.68 MW; No crew)											
Defensive: 											
Master Fire Directors: None											
											
Accommodations											
Life Support: Extended (0.4154 MW), Gravitic Compensators (10.385 MW)											
Crew: 26 (2xManeuver, 1xElectronics, 8xEngineer, 2xGunnery, 1xMaintenance, 8xShip's Troops, 1xFlight, 3xCommand)											
Crew Accommodations: Cockpit											
Passengers: None											
Passenger Accommodations: None											
Other Facilities: None											
Cargo: 917 m3 (65.5 tons), 2 Large Hatches											
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 1x10-ton minimal hangar											
Air Locks: 2											
											
Notes											
Total Fuel Tankage: 683.8475 m3 (48.8 tons) 											
Fuel scoops (10% of ship surface), fills tanks in 0.61 hours											
Fuel purification machinery (1.33MW), 21.6 hours to refine 683.8475 m3.											
0 MW power shortfall.											
											
Damage tables											
Surface Hits			Internal Explosion			Systems		Systems		Systems	
Air Locks	0.1		Elec	1.6		#NAME?		#NAME?		LB	
Antenna	1.7		Hold	8.6		#NAME?		LSR-None		LT	
Cargo hatch	0.6		Fuel	4.9		AL-2x1h		#NAME?		MB	
EMM Rad	0.4		Qtrs	0.6		#NAME?		MFD-None		MG	
Launch ports	0.6		Eng	3.3		#NAME?		MS-None		MT	
Screens	0		Weap	0.6		EMM Rad-2h		ND-None		NDB	
Total	3.4		Total	19.6		#NAME?		#NAME?		NDT	
						#NAME?		#NAME?		PA	
Other Surface Locations						#NAME?		#NAME?		TS	
Man drive	1.1					#NAME?		SSR-None			
Jump drive	0.3					LBth-None					
Weapons	0.3										
Total	1.7

 

[Sir Brad]

OK no general decent or overwhelming approval? I'm thinking of cutting the Cargo back to a flat 60 D Tons with a .5 D ton Arms Locker and giving the 10 tons over to Fule, but I want to see how much Volume & Mass gets eaten up by the P-Plant upgrade first.

on an operational note, most of the time these things cursed at 1G and only kicked in the 2G when someone did a Runner or it was working emergency response. Given this thing is intended for in system use when not serving as a Military Auxiliary 90 odd 1G Turns seams like good endurance.

 

[Sir Brad]

OK no general decent or overwhelming approval? I'm thinking of cutting the Cargo back to a flat 60 D Tons with a .5 D ton Arms Locker and giving the 10 tons over to Fule, but I want to see how much Volume & Mass gets eaten up by the P-Plant upgrade first.

on an operational note, most of the time these things cursed at 1G and only kicked in the 2G when someone did a Runner or it was working emergency response. Given this thing is intended for in system use when not serving as a Military Auxiliary 90 odd 1G Turns seams like good endurance.