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OTU Only: Tracking A Ship Through Jump Space

Query:

Is it possible in the OTU to track a ship through J-Space?




In Star Trek, a ship can be tracked through warp. In Star Wars, the destination of a ship can be predicted if a good sensor lock is obtained on the target vessel as it makes the jump to hyperspace.

So, in Traveller, let's say the Imperial Navy is chasing the PCs in their Free Trader, when the Free Trader tumbles into Jump Space. The IN knows the Free Trader has only J-1 capability, so that limits the destinations. But, let's say that this particular systems has three other worlds within J-1 range.

Is there any way, in the OTU, to predict the destination of that Free Trader?

I'm thinking "no", but I'd like to hear opinion and speculation.
 
From what I understand, you may be able to track it via the ship's vector prior to jump.

If pursuer was tracking the ship prior to jump, the sensors will have the vector data. If the ship is a J1 vessel, the logic will be easy...
 
From what I understand, you may be able to track it via the ship's vector prior to jump.

I've got to disagree. I don't think a ship's vector has anything to do with its jump destination. (But, I think that's the logic used in Star Wars and Star Trek.)



If the ship is a J1 vessel, the logic will be easy...

That's why I put three worlds within Jump-1 range in the example. ;)
 
Vector-based jump orientation was what MWM wanted all along. It just, sometimes, wasn't presented... ;)

MGT didn't really have vector-based jump; it had jump grids that were programmed by the drive and the ship slipped to it.

TNE didn't really say, IIRC, it defaulted to CT for it.

I guess you can use what you want.....
 
Most Traveller adventures and versions suggested an ability to guess jump distance and destination.

Annic Nova, which i just re-read, did it, and GURPS confirmed with jump shadowing (not just 100D for jump, but 100D for the journey)
 
Vector-based jump orientation was what MWM wanted all along. It just, sometimes, wasn't presented... ;)

I've never gotten that. And, T5 shows how vector can be altered while in jump so that exit vector is different from entry vector.



I guess you can use what you want.....

I'm interested in the OTU version.



Most Traveller adventures and versions suggested an ability to guess jump distance and destination.

Again, I don't recall ever seeing something like that, but it's been a long time.


Annic Nova, which i just re-read, did it, and GURPS confirmed with jump shadowing (not just 100D for jump, but 100D for the journey)

Got a page number for Annic Nova? I'd like to read what it says.
 
I've never gotten that. And, T5 shows how vector can be altered while in jump so that exit vector is different from entry vector.

:eek:

I'm interested in the OTU version.

As far as I know, CT just says you exit realspace at A and appear a week later at B, with the caveat that you have to get out past 100 diameters to avoid a penalty, and with the assumption that you will exit at the destination "jump point", i.e. 100 diameters out. To the best of my knowledge, it is not specifically stated whether or not you can push that to exit jumpspace closer to the planet on arrival - say, to avoid a possible encounter or to reduce your exposure time in case one occurs (very useful if you're a smuggler trying to reach a red-zoned planet patrolled by the Navy). It's just presumed you exit at the "jump point," and one likewise presumes the gamemaster would shoot down any proposal to try to exit closer to prevent the Navy blockades from being pointless. However, I don't see an emphatic, "Thou can'st not," in CT. Nor is there any specific statement that you can or cannot tell where someone else goes. In point of fact, I don't even see anything specifically insisting on conservation of momentum.

Then Mr. Miller in a JTAS article (JTAS 24) gave it more detail: conservation of mass and energy applies*, and you could not exit jumpspace within 100 diameters - you'd precipitate out naturally when you reached that point of your destination. An implication of that last is that jump is directional, i.e. there is a 1:1 correspondence between points in normal space and points in jump space such that when you reach the point in jump space equivalent to the 100-diameter sphere surrounding a world, you naturally drop out of jump space. Were it otherwise, you could hypothetically exit jump space on the other side of the planet or miss the planet altogether and keep going, but the language was that you precipitate out when you reach that point.

A logical extension of that rule was that you'd precipitate out upon intersecting other gravity wells also. Ergo, you could not reach the 100-diameter limit of a planet or star and then point yourself back at the planet/star to jump to a system on the other side of it. That set logical limits on what you could reach: anything on the "blind" side of the planet or the system's star could not be the destination.

A second point was, if you had a drive capable of more than Jump-1, it took more energy and fuel to achieve the higher jump. A ship monitoring yours could read your energy output and figure out how far you were jumping based on your energy output. Knowing that, and knowing where you couldn't go based on the jump shadow of the planet and/or star you were departing, one could make an educated guess at what targets remained.

However, an educated guess is not certain knowledge. The article doesn't say that striking a 100 diameter limit is a requirement for exiting jumpspace: he may infer what system you're headed for, but if you've planned to exit jump space at some planet other than the primary world in the system, or at some random point in space in the system instead of at a world, then you're a very small needle in a very large haystack, and knowing which haystack does him little good.

Further, the view that you can infer a destination from available data, but not specifically know the destination, is supported by a statement in the section on micro-jumping: "Because a ship's jump destination cannot be predicted, a microjump within a system still leaves an impression that the ship has left; a week later, it emerges from jump in the same system, to the observer's confusion."

*This meant, among other things, if you tossed something out the airlock, it would precipitate out into normal space, possibly right along with you or possibly at some point in interstellar space, or at least it's equivalent in mass/energy would - jump space physics have lots of fun with objects not within the jumping ship's jump field, and an object spread as individual atoms or energy across a light-minute or so of space would certainly obey that conservation rule.

Got a page number for Annic Nova? I'd like to read what it says.

I see nothing in either the double-adventure or the JTAS adventure that implies an ability to track the ship's jump.
 
I'd say no. You're blinking out of the universe into your own universe and then blinking back into this universe. Tracking doesn't strike me as a possibility.
 
TNE: Regency Sourcebook, p.79:

Penetratlon: Entry into jumpspace (J-space) from normal space (N-space). Also referred to as departure, j-transition or j-translation. Usually accompanied by brief biological unease, but this is not militarily significant as objects in jumpspace are unable to interact with other objects in jumpspace. (Exception, large gravity sources project “shallow“ perturbing influences into jumpspace under some circumstances.) Penetration is accompanied by gravitic ”indentation” and “ripples‘‘ which can be detected by sensors with a hard fire control lock on a departing ship. Proper analysis of the penetration angle, jump envelope configuration, and entry vector can allow a prediction of the likely direction and distance of the jump. Prevention of such penetration lock-ons is one of the main missions of rear-guard screening forces in space combat. Area jammers and nuclear “whiteout” patterns are typically used to obscure enemy view of friendly penetration for just this reason.
 
(quoting from TNE: Regency Sourcebook, p.79):

Prevention of such penetration lock-ons is one of the main missions of rear-guard screening forces in space combat.

For that to work, the rearguard will have to jump somewhere other than where the main body has gone; otherwise the enemy can just lock on to their jump signatures. Sure, there will be designated rendezvous, but it's still going to be a problem to link up again. Especially if the enemy follows the rearguard and attacks it. I wonder how big a part of a group of ships is needed to shield the rest.


Hans
 
For that to work, the rearguard will have to jump somewhere other than where the main body has gone; otherwise the enemy can just lock on to their jump signatures. Sure, there will be designated rendezvous, but it's still going to be a problem to link up again. Especially if the enemy follows the rearguard and attacks it. I wonder how big a part of a group of ships is needed to shield the rest.


Hans

Insufficient data. Were this High Guard, I'd mount a rearguard of heavily armored fighters and have them scatter once the fleet was out; then anyone who could avoid pursuit could rendezvous with a carrier waiting out in deep space somewhere for the trip home. If the enemy was so eager that he was chasing individual fighters, then those could surrender - hard duty, but rearguard in retreat is always hard duty and a few pilots and a few fighters lost is a rather small price for getting the fleet away safely.

Plan B is to have enough destroyers that you can pre-position a replacement squadron at your planned retreat point, to join up with the retreating fleet and replace the rearguard destroyers, which themselves are jumping to some other point once the fleet's safely away. That way the enemy only knows where the rearguard went; with planning and forethought, that information won't get them anything. A squadron of destroyers is less than the cost of a single cruiser, and at least in High Guard they can be made to stand up to heavy fire for a short while.

However, I know zip-didley about TNE's combat system.
 
Insufficient data. Were this High Guard, I'd mount a rearguard of heavily armored fighters and have them scatter once the fleet was out; then anyone who could avoid pursuit could rendezvous with a carrier waiting out in deep space somewhere for the trip home. If the enemy was so eager that he was chasing individual fighters, then those could surrender - hard duty, but rearguard in retreat is always hard duty and a few pilots and a few fighters lost is a rather small price for getting the fleet away safely.

Plan B is to have enough destroyers that you can pre-position a replacement squadron at your planned retreat point, to join up with the retreating fleet and replace the rearguard destroyers, which themselves are jumping to some other point once the fleet's safely away. That way the enemy only knows where the rearguard went; with planning and forethought, that information won't get them anything. A squadron of destroyers is less than the cost of a single cruiser, and at least in High Guard they can be made to stand up to heavy fire for a short while.

However, I know zip-didley about TNE's combat system.

Another fine tactic would be to deliberately draw the following fleet into a trap. Whoever they follow jumps to a rendezvous with the major fleet. Everything else was bait, and like you say, can easily survive long enough to jump.

In land warfare this is commonly done with great success.
 
Another fine tactic would be to deliberately draw the following fleet into a trap. Whoever they follow jumps to a rendezvous with the major fleet. Everything else was bait, and like you say, can easily survive long enough to jump.

In land warfare this is commonly done with great success.

I'd worry too about a reverse trap: baiting the defenders into pursuit and having a second force standing by to attack the world while those defenders are off chasing prizes.
 
I'd worry too about a reverse trap: baiting the defenders into pursuit and having a second force standing by to attack the world while those defenders are off chasing prizes.

That would be the mark of a very nonmilitary, undisciplined, force. Probably work for a force operating under a letter of Marque though. Their goal, like mercenaries, is money, not mission.
 
The vector analysis is because of conservation of momentum carrying through jump space and applying on arrival. A ship will try to make its vector match the destination system's proper motion as near as possible, in the time available before jump.

The proper motion is the destination star's vector relative to the departure system - this difference can be very large (imagine two stars moving in opposite directions!). The pilot doesn't want to emerge with such a big vector compared to the destination star and its planets that you take an immense amount of time to fix it in a potentially dangerous navigational environment since - you're detecting the bodies in the new system on materialisation. (Also, the pilot may not want to spend a long time before planetfall with the chance of a hostile encounter).

The pilot jumping out of a hostile situation may well choose to vector adjust at the destination, though, risking hitting something there with a massive conserved vector rather than get blown apart in his original system.

Didn't MT say the jump grid could be analysed, too, giving a chance to work out the navigational programme? Though that's not necessarily relevant to CT's OTU unless a referee deems it so.
 
The vector analysis is because of conservation of momentum carrying through jump space and applying on arrival. A ship will try to make its vector match the destination system's proper motion as near as possible, in the time available before jump.

Don't forget that T5 now specifically states that the vector a ship has upon exit from jumpspace will be the same as when it entered IF the vector isn't changed before jump exit. In other words, a ship can change its vector during a jump.
 
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