Trade Rules

[DonM]

Ok... I'm looking at converting my existing Trade House Rules (http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/MT Trade and Commerce variant.pdf) to T5, but I also am wanting to consider other options...

Anyone want to share/offer their favorite trade rules and variants?

 

[Blue Ghost]

My groups just used the trade table in the book. What variants were you thinking of?

 

[DonM]

I'm open to about anything. I want to review other approaches to see if I want to change anything.

 

[atpollard]

In actual play, I was pleasantly surprised by the MgT split trade mechanic where anyone can find a cargo using a variety of skills and a second skill check was needed to close the deal. I didn't like it when I first read it, frankly, it seemed like a lot of effort and a little 'munchkin' for my taste. In actual game play (under another referee), it allowed many more players to participate in trade and generated role-playing opportunities. The character with Streetwise was able to locate a potential cargo through a back alley deal. The character with Computer was able to generate a lead on Craig's List. The character with Administration (I think) was able to go through normal trade channels. Once you had lots of options on the table, then the group could decide which adventure or adventures to pursue in search of a great deal to get rich.

It seemed a mechanic (and philosophy) worth adapting in other situations ... don't look for the 'RIGHT' skill, look how 'YOUR' skill can be applied to the situation.

 

[BillDowns]

One rule I consistently have is to allow cargo rolls for systems "down the line". I.e., my players intend to travel from System A to B, then C, then D, so I allow them to roll for cargo for any of those stars. I use a negative modifier for the increasing distance.

 

[Hyphen]

Have to put in a plug for my Trade Rules.

==> Tavonni Repair Bays
==> House Rules
==> Trade Tables

While you're there, worth looking at the "Acknowledgements and Copyright" page to check out other Traveller trade rules...

 

[Enoff]

Well I am on a crazy quest to get to the point were I can try the trade system in the ancient "Space" series programmed by Edu-Ware in 1979 for the Apple II. I haven't given enough time to develop a character that musters out with a starship or who can afford to finance one, might have to be my mission tonight. Also it would be fun to see if I can actually read the program syntax, I am guessing its in Applesoft or Integer BASIC. I hope it hasn't been compiled :-[

 

[aramis]

The Space disks are all in BASIC. They run fine in Apple II emulators.

 

[Leitz]

The trade rules are very much dependent on the campaign type, aren't they? For example, I think people should be able to get wildly rich and use as many mods on the CT tables as possible. Other folks think money should be more restricted so they don't.

I'm very much a "figure out the rules to suit the game" sort.

 

[aramis]

The trade rules are very much dependent on the campaign type, aren't they? For example, I think people should be able to get wildly rich and use as many mods on the CT tables as possible. Other folks think money should be more restricted so they don't.

I'm very much a "figure out the rules to suit the game" sort.

The trade rules need to do 3 things -

1) assuming a reliable and pretty typical situation, allow for freighters to turn a profit after paying the mortgage

2) provide for enough difference in value to support goods moving in the first place.

3) provide enough information that one can have some clue as to what's there when you get raided or otherwise wind up paying for the lost cargo.

CT Bk2 did 1 and 2 well; 3 was more iffy.

CT Bk 7 Merchant Prince broke verisimilitude for many by making all cargos the same base price. It handled 1 and 2 reasonably well, but only for ships over a few 1000 Td, but not much over 5000... (Why? because they can't fill up. And below 1000Td, the bridge tonnage eats your profit margin)

Note that MT, TNE, and T4 produced slight variations to MP...

It's nice if a trade system also...

4) has use for multiple characters

5) can easily be used for larger scale situations

6) is fun to interface with.

7) doesn't bog play down with need for long calculations.

8) provides adventure hooks.

MP fails for 4 and 8. Many feel it fails 6 and 7 as well.

 

[ovka]

Scalability is important. That doesn't mean that the exact same rules have to apply to a J1 100dT ship that apply to a J4 20KdT ship, but both need to be viable options.

The J4 ship would follow the X-Boat routes. It might not even make it to the starport. The megacorps could have stations at the 100D limit allowing them to jump in, refuel, unload local cargo and passengers, load cargo and passengers already waiting for them at the station with a destination farther down the line, swap crew members that need shore-leave, and go. In-system ships would then move the local cargo and passengers from the 100D station to the starport. Those same in-system ships would take the next load of cargo and passengers out to the 100D station to wait for the next J4 megafreighter going the right direction.

Also, there are a few converted AHL ships (J5) serving as bulk freighters. They need to be viable options as well.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

 

[Hyphen]

To me, the MP rules were the sort of thing that could be computerised and automated.

Which is EXACTLY why they missed the mark! (IMNSHO, of course)

Apart from believing MP was a soulless accountancy system, I also tend to sort your points in a different order. Your point #8 is only from a player's POV; I believe it's point #1 from a _referee's_ POV.

As I wrote in my Trade Tables intro:
"Above all, do not let the game become bogged down in accountancy (unless your players Really, Really like that stuff) but use this system to generate adventure situations."

(And before anyone says, "Yeah, but you still have to make the monthly repayment", can I suggest that making the payment - or paying for repairs - an experience in itself was done a number of times in Firefly...)

 

[aramis]

To me, the MP rules were the sort of thing that could be computerised and automated.

Which is EXACTLY why they missed the mark! (IMNSHO, of course)

Actually, they were computerized almost immediately - the Space I disk implements them. In BASIC.

 

[Blue Ghost]

A major loophole that always bothered me was that you could buy things like Vaccsuits in bulk via the cargo table, but that an individual vaccsuit had a MSRP of several hundred percent (sorry, my rule books are packed away in storage, so I can't give a precise figure here). As a consequence my players would buy things like vaccsuits, or vehicles, or weapons, or whatever it was via the trade table, "skim" a few from the cargo for personal use, and then dump the rest on some poor unsuspecting merchant or retailer.

There you have it. White collar piracy in Traveller. And at the time I was just too young to know how to handle that ... do I whip up some NPC police and detectives? Because even when I did decide to bring in Imperial justice the players just decided to jump outsystem with no one the wiser.

I have to tell you that I really frowned on it, but admired the "originality" in thinking, even though I really thought that that was just rules lawyering and loophole exploitation at its absolute worse.

No, none of my characters ever took advantage of that when I was a player.

 

[ovka]

A major loophole that always bothered me was that you could buy things like Vaccsuits in bulk via the cargo table, but that an individual vaccsuit had a MSRP of several hundred percent (sorry, my rule books are packed away in storage, so I can't give a precise figure here). As a consequence my players would buy things like vaccsuits, or vehicles, or weapons, or whatever it was via the trade table, "skim" a few from the cargo for personal use, and then dump the rest on some poor unsuspecting merchant or retailer.

Wasn't there something in one of the rule books that implied PCs could or should do that? I may be misremembering something.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

 

[aramis]

Wasn't there something in one of the rule books that implied PCs could or should do that? I may be misremembering something.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

Kind of.
In the CT 2E rules, there is an example of figuring out how many rifles are in a ton of weapons by dividing the base cargo purchase price by the price of the item. In light of later developments in understandings of the cargo ton (especially TNE FF&S), this rapidly became silly.

 

[Hyphen]

I have to tell you that I really frowned on it, but admired the "originality" in thinking, even though I really thought that that was just rules lawyering and loophole exploitation at its absolute worse.

Brilliant! Reward the player's originality by letting them get away with it.

Once.

Next time (especially given the laconic nature of the canonical trade tables), when they select "Vehicles" (or whatever) it's actually spare parts, rather than whole items. Or partially disassembled for transport, with the other portion on a different pallet... which the PC's, having bought a break-bulk item, don't have.

Hopefully, they'll get the hint. And still allow them to make money the "normal" way (whatever passes for normal in your universe, YMMV).

Finally, still let them skim the cargo in emergencies. There's a Bill Keith story written around just such a situation. With K'kree. ;-)

 

[salochin999]

I don't use trading much but one thing I have changed in the past is the planet gets a broker too, like

d6
1 broker-0
2 broker-0
3 broker-1
4 broker-1
5 broker-2
6 broker-3

with star port DM
A +2
B +1
C -
D -1
E -2

the other thing is trading long distance - the players take a trip down a main from x to y and so fill half the hold with long distance freight leaving the other half for speculation cargo.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Brilliant! Reward the player's originality by letting them get away with it.

Once.

Next time (especially given the laconic nature of the canonical trade tables), when they select "Vehicles" (or whatever) it's actually spare parts, rather than whole items. Or partially disassembled for transport, with the other portion on a different pallet... which the PC's, having bought a break-bulk item, don't have.

Hopefully, they'll get the hint. And still allow them to make money the "normal" way (whatever passes for normal in your universe, YMMV).

Finally, still let them skim the cargo in emergencies. There's a Bill Keith story written around just such a situation. With K'kree. ;-)

I suppose I should be grateful. They could've easily just taken several crates of vacc suits of assorted sizes, then jump to some mid tech world that had a need for them, land, open up the cargo bay, and sell directly to the public. I think I might've had to put my foot down if that had happened

I mean it was like adventuring (and letting me play as a PC) became secondary to trade (and my winding up having to run a lot of sessions). Alcoholic beverages, anagathics, weapons ... you name it, they bought it, and sold it, and started massing a great deal of wealth above and beyond "dream tickets". And that when the skimming got really bad ... grav belts, ACRs, energy weapons and support weapons of various types ... it almost got out of hand (or rather, it did get out of hand, but I tossed in real seeds, and then let someone else run a session ... or we played a different game altogether; Champions, Car Wars ,what not).

Wild stuff, trading in Traveller.

 

[whartung]

I suppose I should be grateful. They could've easily just taken several crates of vacc suits of assorted sizes, then jump to some mid tech world that had a need for them, land, open up the cargo bay, and sell directly to the public. I think I might've had to put my foot down if that had happened

We actually did exactly this once, and our ref let us get away with it.

Essentially while NOT assaulting the guarded asteroid compound we had contracted to do, we grabbed the starship, combined our mustering out monies, and bought several tons of high TL solar powered scientific calculators (represented as Electronics I think), and proceeded to make huge bank selling them to a several wholesalers on a TL5 world, who were quite taken with them.

We made literally millions of Cr, and never laid foot on the guarded asteroid complex we were to assault.

Ref was kinda upset, but, frankly, he could have curtailed us at several junctures -- but didn't.