Transhuman Space is 2300AD on drugs

[kafka47]

Picked up Transhuman Space the other day, this milieu really rocks!!

Imagine a world where the worst nightmares become the waking moments of everyday. It turns the premise of an orderly clean universe inside out and creates a vision or distopia of what life might be evolving toward. Forget the santized versions of the future offered thus far by Traveller 2300 or 2300AD and join forth the Jacksonian heresy to put your toe into the future. I only hoped that you guys at Quicklink get some inspiration and crank something really fine soon.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Picked up Transhuman Space the other day, this milieu really rocks!!

Imagine a world where the worst nightmares become the waking moments of everyday. It turns the premise of an orderly clean universe inside out and creates a vision or distopia of what life might be evolving toward.

It take it you don't like the Transhuman aspects then?

 

[Solo]

Originally posted by kafka47:
(snipped)

Imagine a world where the worst nightmares become the waking moments of everyday. It turns the premise of an orderly clean universe inside out and creates a vision or distopia of what life might be evolving toward. Forget the santized versions of the future offered thus far by Traveller 2300 or 2300AD and join forth the Jacksonian heresy to put your toe into the future. I only hoped that you guys at Quicklink get some inspiration and crank something really fine soon.

Actually Kafka, Transhuman Space is anything but distopian. It presents the future as being like today. Not good, not bad, just is. In fact I think a great deal of it is a little too "utopian" . People don't eat real meat anymore? Please. And yes, I think that TS is the inheritor of the 2300 AD "Hard" Sci-Fi title. The only problem I have...is that I really do like the hand wave of FTL. But, there is plenty of adventuring possibilities in TS and, as I understand it, there has been discussion about a '"Transhuman Stars" project...

My 2.

-S.

 

[Captain Tylor]

as I understand it, there has been discussion about a '"Transhuman Stars" project...

Really? I've not heard about this. I've been working on my own TS/2300AD hybrid where I've added another 100 years of events onto the TS timeline. I'd love to see and/or playtest anything "official".

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Solo:
Actually Kafka, Transhuman Space is anything but distopian. It presents the future as being like today. Not good, not bad, just is. In fact I think a great deal of it is a little too "utopian" . People don't eat real meat anymore? Please. And yes, I think that TS is the inheritor of the 2300 AD "Hard" Sci-Fi title. The only problem I have...is that I really do like the hand wave of FTL. But, there is plenty of adventuring possibilities in TS and, as I understand it, there has been discussion about a '"Transhuman Stars" project...

Actually, Transhuman Space doesn't have any FTL in it at all, so I'm not sure what FTL handwave you're referring to.

I gather some people reckon it's dystopian because of the huge emphasis on genetic engineering and uploading intelligences, and maybe the virtual reality overlays that allow you to know just about anything about anyone you see. (seen Minority Report? The tech in that is similar in many ways that in TS. Except without the silly psi-powers).

 

[Solo]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
Actually, Transhuman Space doesn't have any FTL in it at all, so I'm not sure what FTL handwave you're referring to.
[/QB]

Yes, that's what I meant by -"The only problem I have...is that I really do like the hand wave of FTL. But, there is plenty of adventuring possibilities in TS..."- I wasn't very clear. Missing FTL is the only thing I don't like about TS..well that and it's GURPS.

The "Transhuman Stars" thing was discussed early out on the TS yahoo message boards. Don't know the status right now. I wonder how well TS is selling? I got jacked by buying the first print which was softcover in black and white. Now you can get it in hard cover and color for US$5 more.

I planning on using a lot of TS inspired material in my T20 campaign...which begins tonight!

-S.

 

[kafka47]

I for one would welcome, a Transhuman Space : Stars. As David Pulver, the creator mentioned the engines are the right size for inserting a Jump Drive. And, to clarify I actually like the darker Transhumanist elements...where I find it a little questionable is the whole uplift movement that is somewhat buried in there.

I found the descriptions of the world today pushed forward to fall within the dystopian tradition as it avoids the squeaky clean version of the future that Traveller of late has put on offer. What I may call dark is certainly not as dark as one can get. But I tn to think tht th? future is not going to ron ÂÉopy o th pr?snt. Thr?or th prtrts o? TS tht I r„Flly njoy is th utur? spultion o? th inhit?nts o utur? Solr polity,¤

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Solo:
Yes, that's what I meant by -"The only problem I have...is that I really do like the hand wave of FTL. But, there is plenty of adventuring possibilities in TS..."- I wasn't very clear. Missing FTL is the only thing I don't like about TS..well that and it's GURPS.

Sorry, I misread what you said (I didn't spot that your problem was that TS *didn't* have FTL).

The "Transhuman Stars" thing was discussed early out on the TS yahoo message boards. Don't know the status right now. I wonder how well TS is selling? I got jacked by buying the first print which was softcover in black and white. Now you can get it in hard cover and color for US$5 more.

I'd imagine that if Transhuman Stars is going to happen, it'll come after the original supplements for TS are released, which at this rate won't happen til sometime in 2004. Meanwhile, there are some pretty heavy advanced transhuman RPGs online - Orion's Arm, and the oddly-named but bloody amazing "Big Ideas, Grand Vision", by Anders Sandberg. You can find 'em if you do a google search.

I saw the hardback today, and decided it wasn't worth getting. I've got the softback already, but I didn't like the art in the first place, and seeing it in colour doesn't make me like it any more. If you don't have TS anyway though, it's worth picking up the hardback.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by kafka47:
I for one would welcome, a Transhuman Space : Stars. As David Pulver, the creator mentioned the engines are the right size for inserting a Jump Drive. And, to clarify I actually like the darker Transhumanist elements...where I find it a little questionable is the whole uplift movement that is somewhat buried in there.

I don't think the uplift movement is very big though. OK, they are there, but I think more often than not one would choose either an infomorph or a bioroid over an uplifted animal to perform a task. But uplifted animals aren't very high on the scale of importance within the setting.

What I may call dark is certainly not as dark as one can get. But I tn to think tht th? future is not going to ron ÂÉopy o th pr?snt. Thr?or th prtrts o? TS tht I r„Flly njoy is th utur? spultion o? th inhit?nts o utur? Solr polity,¤

OK, who let Virus loose on Kafka47's hard drive?!

 

[Uncle Bob]

Originally posted by Solo:
Actually Kafka, Transhuman Space is anything but distopian. It presents the future as being like today. Not good, not bad, just is. In fact I think a great deal of it is a little too "utopian" . People don't eat real meat anymore? Please.

No more roast beef? Not just distopian, that, sir, is Hell.

Ignoring that, somehow I didn't expect someone who called himself "Kafka" to see the brighter side of a game world.

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:

Originally posted by Solo:
[qb
Ignoring that, somehow I didn't expect someone who called himself "Kafka" to see the brighter side of a game world.

Kafka is seeing things in a more contorted and twisted way and asking why things are. To paraphase SF writer, Nalo Hopkinson: "I look at reality and hold a funhouse mirror it when I write my stories"... my only beef is that I would say it is not the reflection of reality that is in the funhouse mirror...instead, reality is the funhouse mirror.

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by kafka47:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Uncle Bob:

Originally posted by Solo:
[qb
Ignoring that, somehow I didn't expect someone who called himself "Kafka" to see the brighter side of a game world.

Kafka is seeing things in a more contorted and twisted way and asking why things are. To paraphase SF writer, Nalo Hopkinson: "I look at reality and hold a funhouse mirror it when I write my stories"... my only beef is that I would say it is not the reflection of reality that is in the funhouse mirror...instead, reality is the funhouse mirror.</font>

As for the Art, I wish Traveller looked like the colour version. The art is one of the things that makes the whole thing work...I am surprised that others do not think so, but, maybe because I don't have the B&W version, I am biased.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by thrash:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kafka47:
As for the Art, I wish Traveller looked like the colour version. The art is one of the things that makes the whole thing work...I am surprised that others do not think so, but, maybe because I don't have the B&W version, I am biased.

My objection to the art (and I am not alone in this) is that the original concept art for THS was very clean -- realistic line drawings, very Traveller-esque in fact. Then the book comes out with this murky, impressionistic crap, including ship images that are cheap anime rip-offs (say "homages," if you prefer) rather than accurate depictions of the designs. It severely detracts from the optimistic, fundamentally hard science tone of the setting and makes the game look instead like some World of Darkness techno-fantasy.</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, it's no wonder that some people think the game is dystopian with than artwork. I'm *so* glad they ditched Shy and brought in Ramon Perez (doing the art for the new "Personnel Files" TS book) - he's infinitely more suited for the line.

 

[Jame]

Is anyone else as disturbed by the mind-uploading and seemingly unregulated, rampant biomodification aspects of Transhuman Space as I am?

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Jame:
Is anyone else as disturbed by the mind-uploading and seemingly unregulated, rampant biomodification aspects of Transhuman Space as I am?

If it didn't have that stuff, it wouldn't really deserve being called "TRANSHUMAN Space"

.

I'm not remotely disturbed by it at all - in fact, I wish it'd hurry up and happen!

That said, bear in mind that uploading and biomodification is not legal everywhere in TS, and many groups frown on at least some aspects of it - and of course it's expensive to do. So not *everyone* does it all the time. But you'd possibly be considered a bit odd if you didn't at least engineer inherited diseases out of your children but could afford to do so.

 

[kafka47]

I am really surprised that there is such a reaction to Christopher Sly's work...for me it is reminding of Blade Runner which how I imagine the Core Worlds of my TU. The early line drawings were nice but had no atmosphere. As for being to Annime like, I think the big eyes and disportionate bodies (or I am confusing that with Manga) are nowhere present in Transhuman Space?

My only complaint with the colour version, is that it did not come out as the initial release, as I think that would have raised the bar in terms of an aesthetic for the gaming industry. For whatever, game one plays, unless they are a newbie (and I mean that in a nice way), one usually will evolve into playing some sort of house rules. Like in my case, I do not like the GURPS mechanics (which accounts for my feelings toward GT) and I use my variation of the MT rules which work out fine.

Looking to the future now, if we are to see D20 2300 AD, as Hunter eluded to... it would have to make a significant departure from the 2300AD milieu that GDW wrote. It would be better if one could some indeed create a Transhuman Stars (IMTU, that would include the Vilani lurking somewhere around the Massilia sector) and link the two ends of Traveller together but with Interstellar Wars Milieu coming the pipe, this vision becomes even more remote. So the best that I could hope for is a really different milieu to emerge out of the 1250 New Era or be very optimistic about IW...

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by kafka47:
[QB]I am really surprised that there is such a reaction to Christopher Sly's work...for me it is reminding of Blade Runner which how I imagine the Core Worlds of my TU. The early line drawings were nice but had no atmosphere. As for being to Annime like, I think the big eyes and disportionate bodies (or I am confusing that with Manga) are nowhere present in Transhuman Space?

Oh, I've got a mountain of issues about the artwork and the way Transhuman Space has been released... suffice it to say I am glad Shy's gone.

The problem is that Shy's art gave the *wrong* atmosphere for the line - and that's not a subjective opinion. His art simply didn't match what was in the books (for example, the spaceship drawings bear little if any resemblance to the descriptions, and hardly any bioroids or cybershells from the text are shown).

If you want a movie comparison, I think "Minority Report" (without the psi stuff) is much better at capturing the essense of TS than Blade Runner (which is much more Cyberpunky in feel than TS, though the replicants are obviously similar to bioroids in many ways). But still, Minority Report isn't fully equivalent to TS. If you throw in things like "2001: A Space Odyssey", and the "Ghost in the Shell" and "Appleseed" animes then you're getting more like it.

 

[Captain Tylor]

Slight thread hijack here:

In my attempt to create my own Transhuman Stars campaign, I've decided to take the events from the 2300AD timeline from about 2100 to 2185 or so and try my best to make them dovetail with the Transhuman Space timeline.

I've immediately run into a problem: around 2100 (in 2300AD's timeline) is when the Mexican "reconquista" of the S.W. United States is supposed to happen (w/ Texas later being created as a buffer nation). Trouble is, in the TS timeline, Mexico and the U.S. are on very good relations owing to the significant Hispanic population of the U.S. and the influence it has had on American culture.

Doe anybody have any ideas on how to handle this? One idea I've had is to substitute China for Mexico and Russia for the U.S. and have China absorb the Siberian Far East (which is something that just might happen in real life now). Comments are welcome.

 

[kafka47]

Just draw lessons from the realpolitik...the Taliban was America's ally when the Soviet occupied Afghanistan and then turned out to be their enemy for harbouring Osama Bin Ladin. Relations between Mexico could begin to turn in the TS world when a faction of Infosocialist Bloc gains ascendancy in the Congress. In a preventative move, the Presidency of the United States sends in a Special Ops team...their mission fails and enrages the Mexican populace.

Within the United States, the fragmentation of Canada leads to a weakening the bonds that hold the United States together. Some States and cities are thinking that European Union model is more appropiate for the NAFTA zone. Therefore, we see Maine leaving the US to join with the Atlantic Union in an informal way. Other States are beginning to experiment with alternative ways of organizing the economy including along Infosocialist lines...

This creates a backlash amongst the Washington gentrocracy, a state nearing Civil War is beginning to rupture the balance of interests amongst the States. The reaction of Mexico would be motivated by a messiahanic leader who wishes to take back the Alamo. So by 2300 there is exists a Cold War between the United States and its Southern flank.

Now all this postualates the geography will remain important in 2300AD and that States are the primary actors in the world. I have always assumed that cities and regions will take priority.

 

[Captain Tylor]

Thrash and Kafka;

I like both of these ideas, but I think I like kafka's better. Mexico going nanosocialist would explain their new enmity with the U.S. as well as provide an excuse for their later annexation of the rest of Central America and Cuba (per the 2300AD timeline).