Traveller Book versus LBB 1-3

[rogermccarthy]

Just got the Traveller book and was wondering waht the differences are with LBBs 1-3 as reprinted by FFE.

There's certainly a lot more art - some of it quite nice in the early Keith style despite the bizarre red washes applied apparently at random to some pictures.

Layout is often better - particularly with tables re-arranged so they all fit on one page or two facing pages.

However the downside to that is that tables are sometimes not where you expect them to be (the drugs table for instance is at the end of Trade and commerce rather than in the Drugs section).

OTOH the design of the tables in the combat section leaves a lot to be desired and could have been hugely improved by the inclusion of a few dividing lines or wider spacing.

Probably the single most useful feature is having pretty much everything you can buy put on one table page.

The main additional material is:

A Regina subsector map and UPP's,

a 3-page Traveller's Guide to the Universe with very light background material on the Imperium, X-boats, Megacorporations and the Spinward Marches.

Five pages of library data which mostly seems to reproduce items from the first few LBB Adventure library data sections.

Some (useless)pregen characters and sample random animal encounter tables.

There is also better organised and written referee advice and general introduction sections than the 'Book O' that is included in the FFE reprint.

You also get 4 patrons, a sample casual encounter, a one page amber zone adventure seed, the whole of Shadows reprinted from IIRC Double Adventure 2, and Exit Visa (the same adventure as the one in T4).

RULE DIFFERENCES WITH LBBs 1-3

So far I've spotted:

Combat Armour is added to the armour table costing 20,000 Cr.

Fast Slow and Anagathic drug prices are reduced to 10% of the LBB costs (however the similar price reductions made to vehicle prices in Book 4 are for some reason not included - so an Air/Raft still costs 600,000 credits).

There are two patron tables (the same ones as Megatraveller) rather than one, a rumor matrix and list has been added and the random encounter list no longer has silly references to guards armed with halberds.

A wider selection of communication devices at different TL's and ranges is given on the equipment tables page.

Are there any other changes?

 

[rogermccarthy]

Just got the Traveller book and was wondering waht the differences are with LBBs 1-3 as reprinted by FFE.

There's certainly a lot more art - some of it quite nice in the early Keith style despite the bizarre red washes applied apparently at random to some pictures.

Layout is often better - particularly with tables re-arranged so they all fit on one page or two facing pages.

However the downside to that is that tables are sometimes not where you expect them to be (the drugs table for instance is at the end of Trade and commerce rather than in the Drugs section).

OTOH the design of the tables in the combat section leaves a lot to be desired and could have been hugely improved by the inclusion of a few dividing lines or wider spacing.

Probably the single most useful feature is having pretty much everything you can buy put on one table page.

The main additional material is:

A Regina subsector map and UPP's,

a 3-page Traveller's Guide to the Universe with very light background material on the Imperium, X-boats, Megacorporations and the Spinward Marches.

Five pages of library data which mostly seems to reproduce items from the first few LBB Adventure library data sections.

Some (useless)pregen characters and sample random animal encounter tables.

There is also better organised and written referee advice and general introduction sections than the 'Book O' that is included in the FFE reprint.

You also get 4 patrons, a sample casual encounter, a one page amber zone adventure seed, the whole of Shadows reprinted from IIRC Double Adventure 2, and Exit Visa (the same adventure as the one in T4).

RULE DIFFERENCES WITH LBBs 1-3

So far I've spotted:

Combat Armour is added to the armour table costing 20,000 Cr.

Fast Slow and Anagathic drug prices are reduced to 10% of the LBB costs (however the similar price reductions made to vehicle prices in Book 4 are for some reason not included - so an Air/Raft still costs 600,000 credits).

There are two patron tables (the same ones as Megatraveller) rather than one, a rumor matrix and list has been added and the random encounter list no longer has silly references to guards armed with halberds.

A wider selection of communication devices at different TL's and ranges is given on the equipment tables page.

Are there any other changes?

 

[rogermccarthy]

Add:

voice, video and text recorders and shotgun microphones are also included in teh equipment section.

 

[rogermccarthy]

Add:

voice, video and text recorders and shotgun microphones are also included in teh equipment section.

 

[rogermccarthy]

Scratch addition of combat armour - rechecked the FFE version of LBB 1 which has it.

Though I'm pretty certain the edition of the LBB I played with back in the 70s didn't have it - as if it had been available at that price everyone in my game would have been wearing it and the NPCs pistols SMG's etc would have been rendered largely useless

 

[rogermccarthy]

Scratch addition of combat armour - rechecked the FFE version of LBB 1 which has it.

Though I'm pretty certain the edition of the LBB I played with back in the 70s didn't have it - as if it had been available at that price everyone in my game would have been wearing it and the NPCs pistols SMG's etc would have been rendered largely useless

 

[atpollard]

I never had LBB 1,2,3 and always used the Traveller Book plus LBB 4,5,6,etc. Although I cannot comment on the difference in content, I do have one observation about the Hard Cover book vs the LBB: The paper sleeve on my hardcover book is covered with Transparent tape to protect the frayed edges and to hold the small tears together. The LBBs have pages falling out of the center because the staples wore through the pages and the little holes are now slots. After 20+ years, the hard cover book has proven itself to be much more durable.

Just my 2 cents worth and ...
... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0001 - I stand alone.

[EDIT for Accuracy ... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0002 - We Proud Few.

]

 

[atpollard]

I never had LBB 1,2,3 and always used the Traveller Book plus LBB 4,5,6,etc. Although I cannot comment on the difference in content, I do have one observation about the Hard Cover book vs the LBB: The paper sleeve on my hardcover book is covered with Transparent tape to protect the frayed edges and to hold the small tears together. The LBBs have pages falling out of the center because the staples wore through the pages and the little holes are now slots. After 20+ years, the hard cover book has proven itself to be much more durable.

Just my 2 cents worth and ...
... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0001 - I stand alone.

[EDIT for Accuracy ... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0002 - We Proud Few.

]

 

[robject]

Originally posted by atpollard:
... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0001 - I stand alone.

Not alone, brother.

BTW, it is going to essentially be TTB Hardcover... though a bit thicker.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by atpollard:
... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0001 - I stand alone.

Not alone, brother.

BTW, it is going to essentially be TTB Hardcover... though a bit thicker.

 

[philippe tromeur]

I can't find the book, but here's what I remember is mmissing from TTB compared to Books 1-3 :
- There's no more sample weapons in the encounter charts (guards with halbrerds were cool !)
- The Truth Drug is missing.
- Explanation for Anagathics is missing.
- Primitive Weapons (Flintlock rifle, etc.) are missing.

(The core of the French version of CT is a mix of Books1-3, TTB and Starter Traveller : we try not to miss the things which have disappeared between editions)

 

[philippe tromeur]

I can't find the book, but here's what I remember is mmissing from TTB compared to Books 1-3 :
- There's no more sample weapons in the encounter charts (guards with halbrerds were cool !)
- The Truth Drug is missing.
- Explanation for Anagathics is missing.
- Primitive Weapons (Flintlock rifle, etc.) are missing.

(The core of the French version of CT is a mix of Books1-3, TTB and Starter Traveller : we try not to miss the things which have disappeared between editions)

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by robject:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atpollard:
... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0001 - I stand alone.

Not alone, brother.

BTW, it is going to essentially be TTB Hardcover... though a bit thicker. </font>[/QUOTE]I, too, would echo a need for a better TTB to be the basis of T5. I would also want to see some of the handy breakdowns that we saw in other editions. ie. UWP broken down with arrows (as MT & TNE), as well as a table like in the Spinward Marches Campaign.

UPPs spelled out. Strength: and then give a short synopsis of strength.

As this is allegically the last version of Traveller, Marc is going to be involved with. Make it as simple, as possible; make it as beautiful, as possible; make it as errata free, as possible that way it will endure the test of time.

TTB, also had illustrations and descriptions of Starships that were missing from other editions (Starter Traveller, for sure. ) The LLB seemed boring compared to TTB. And, despite red slashes, I thought the art was quite good for its time.

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by robject:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atpollard:
... Bring back the Traveller Book (Hardcover) for T5! Member 0001 - I stand alone.

Not alone, brother.

BTW, it is going to essentially be TTB Hardcover... though a bit thicker. </font>[/QUOTE]I, too, would echo a need for a better TTB to be the basis of T5. I would also want to see some of the handy breakdowns that we saw in other editions. ie. UWP broken down with arrows (as MT & TNE), as well as a table like in the Spinward Marches Campaign.

UPPs spelled out. Strength: and then give a short synopsis of strength.

As this is allegically the last version of Traveller, Marc is going to be involved with. Make it as simple, as possible; make it as beautiful, as possible; make it as errata free, as possible that way it will endure the test of time.

TTB, also had illustrations and descriptions of Starships that were missing from other editions (Starter Traveller, for sure. ) The LLB seemed boring compared to TTB. And, despite red slashes, I thought the art was quite good for its time.

 

[rogermccarthy]

Personally feel rather disappointed by the TTB and will be selling it on.

There is just not any real sense (other than having art) that the industry had moved on in terms of production value in the six years between 1977 and 1983.

When you also consider the mess that is the Spinward Marches Campaign GDW really did seem to be at a pretty low creative ebb at this point and was treating the Traveller line as its cash cow rather than as a star product.

(Yes I know they also produced The Traveller Adventure at this time but even this is nowhere near as good as it should have been and needs a fair bit of work to make it playable).

 

[rogermccarthy]

Personally feel rather disappointed by the TTB and will be selling it on.

There is just not any real sense (other than having art) that the industry had moved on in terms of production value in the six years between 1977 and 1983.

When you also consider the mess that is the Spinward Marches Campaign GDW really did seem to be at a pretty low creative ebb at this point and was treating the Traveller line as its cash cow rather than as a star product.

(Yes I know they also produced The Traveller Adventure at this time but even this is nowhere near as good as it should have been and needs a fair bit of work to make it playable).

 

[clementk]

TTB is IMO Traveller's missed opportunity. Instead of folding in the best of books 4-8 and some of the supplements & thus being AD&D1E to LBB 1-3's OD&D it's more OD&D + supplements 1 & 2.

MT was too detailed by default and had the setting throughout the core books. T4 is well, T4 and even worse of a missed opportunity. T5? It's got a metric fTon of convincing to do.

And yes GDW did a lot of copypasta back in the day.

 

[clementk]

TTB is IMO Traveller's missed opportunity. Instead of folding in the best of books 4-8 and some of the supplements & thus being AD&D1E to LBB 1-3's OD&D it's more OD&D + supplements 1 & 2.

MT was too detailed by default and had the setting throughout the core books. T4 is well, T4 and even worse of a missed opportunity. T5? It's got a metric fTon of convincing to do.

And yes GDW did a lot of copypasta back in the day.

 

[Arthur Denger]

Originally posted by alte:
Just got the Traveller book and was wondering [what] the differences are with LBBs 1-3 as reprinted by FFE.

There's certainly a lot more art - some of it quite nice in the early Keith style despite the bizarre red washes applied apparently at random to some pictures.

...

Are there any other changes?

Another great feature of The Traveller Book was the inclusion of Shadows, one of my all-time favorite short adventures. I utilize both TTB and the LBBs. Typically I will use TTB for quick reference and the LBBs when I want more in-depth information. I'm just more comfortable with the LBBs, I'll admit it!

Somehow, TTB seems less well organized, and more cluttered; which might be due to the copious sprinkling throughout of illos from early JTAS issues, some of which had little or nothing to do with the accompanying text. With the exceptions of the starships & small craft, weapons and vehicles, I thought the illustrations did very little to enhance the text, (not that the art was bad — anything but — the early stuff by Keith, Deitrick, Danforth, Hentz, Barr and the others is Classic!). In a way, I suppose I viewed it as a knockoff of what Gygax and company had done with their contemporary hardcover AD&D books. That may also just reflect my personal bias, based on the fact that I used the LBBs for decades before acquiring a copy of TTB. On the other hand, I enjoyed the presentation of the illustrations in The Traveller Adventure book immensely, as those were germane to the story and plot development, as illustrations should be.

 

[Arthur Denger]

Originally posted by alte:
Just got the Traveller book and was wondering [what] the differences are with LBBs 1-3 as reprinted by FFE.

There's certainly a lot more art - some of it quite nice in the early Keith style despite the bizarre red washes applied apparently at random to some pictures.

...

Are there any other changes?

Another great feature of The Traveller Book was the inclusion of Shadows, one of my all-time favorite short adventures. I utilize both TTB and the LBBs. Typically I will use TTB for quick reference and the LBBs when I want more in-depth information. I'm just more comfortable with the LBBs, I'll admit it!

Somehow, TTB seems less well organized, and more cluttered; which might be due to the copious sprinkling throughout of illos from early JTAS issues, some of which had little or nothing to do with the accompanying text. With the exceptions of the starships & small craft, weapons and vehicles, I thought the illustrations did very little to enhance the text, (not that the art was bad — anything but — the early stuff by Keith, Deitrick, Danforth, Hentz, Barr and the others is Classic!). In a way, I suppose I viewed it as a knockoff of what Gygax and company had done with their contemporary hardcover AD&D books. That may also just reflect my personal bias, based on the fact that I used the LBBs for decades before acquiring a copy of TTB. On the other hand, I enjoyed the presentation of the illustrations in The Traveller Adventure book immensely, as those were germane to the story and plot development, as illustrations should be.