Traveller Communication Standard

[jfetters]

Originally posted by BillDowns:
After adding the standard XML header, and changing all the curly braces to the angle brackets, that sample of mine imported as is into Access 2000. 4 tables were created, one for each "segment" as I called them, and each table had the right amount of rows.

Indeed! Very cool!

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Valarian:
Ah ... Ok, read the additions since last posted. Looks like the work's already been done. Well done Tom.

As for routes, how about ...
{route startSectorCode="FG" startHex="0101" endSectorCode="FG" endHex="0201" colour="0x3333ff" /}

I've used the codes from http://111george.com/core/astrogat/dir.htm to describe sectors.

The only thing about sector codes is that it assumes a standard or unified source where these codes have meaing.

Why not create a standard where surrounding sectors are labeled similar to subsectors within, such as something similar to this ('X' is the current sector described in the data):

123
4X5
678

Then do something similar to your idea and mark the start and end sectors and hexes, but the sectors are more generically described.

 

[BillDowns]

Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
Q: What are the difficulties involved in conversion of data, and is the end result clear, readable to the layman?

Q: What would be among the benefits to this project, what are the good aspects of the application. Why is it good?

This is kind of a retro answer to the Baron. The objective is to establish an eletronic communications standard so various software with different internal structures and purposes can still communicate with each other about Traveller.

It is not intended for human viewing in a raw state, but, as an example, for a rendering program to convert the XML information into a nice, graphic map.

Originally posted by Jim Fetters:
One issue that 'jumps' out immediately is jump routes. Within the example you present, routes can only be mapped within a sector. What happens when a jump route heads out of a sector?

How often are maps of subsectors placed next to each other with the x-boat routes showing? If you are leaving a subsector (or sector), graphically, the plots will line up. I guess the more important item is to know what sector/subsector/system is atthe other end.

We will have to think about. Perhaps assign Xboat Route Identifers

BTW, I did load that same XML transaction into Excel 2003. Did not like the way it turned out. Will work on the presentation a bit more.

 

[Merxiless]

.sec files in gal 2.4 map out jump routes that lead in and out of sectors, by including it in a sector header block, prior to the main data.

And yes, while Ascii may suck, Galactic is still a great program / Campaign manager, as is H&E.

Best of luck to someone that wants to write something that combines the best of both.

As far as I understand it, the author of H&E right after it was completed, retired from software programming for traveller applications, after completing his masterpiece, because hordes of potential end-users with no damn patience kept demanding him to release the software, even though it was free. Demanding to the point of beyond annoyance, beyond rationality.

Those who were there, I am sure they recall this.

It was really very sad to see such talent treated with such disrespect.

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by Merxiless:
As far as I understand it, the author of H&E right after it was completed, retired from software programming for traveller applications,

Not exactly. Stuart did start work on HE2 (a complete rewrite into VB.NET). However, part way through RL issues conspired to make his spending more time impractical. So for the moment the HE2 project is officially abandoned. (Some of the HE2 modules were even released as alpha to a select group of tame testers.)

Meanwhile Universe 2 is still a long way off but if someone can come up with an agreed 'standard' for an XML data exchange format I'll certainly include it. (If people are desperate enough I may in the interim even add it in as a patch to Universe 1 ... no promises.)

Regards PLST

 

[BillDowns]

Originally posted by Hemdian:
Meanwhile Universe 2 is still a long way off but if someone can come up with an agreed 'standard' for an XML data exchange format I'll certainly include it. Regards PLST

So what would you like to see in such a communications standard?

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Jim Fetters:

Why not create a standard where surrounding sectors are labeled similar to subsectors within, such as something similar to this ('X' is the current sector described in the data):

123
4X5
678

Then do something similar to your idea and mark the start and end sectors and hexes, but the sectors are more generically described.

Hey Jim, you wouldn't even need that: all you'd need is a flag that indicates that the terminating hex is in a different sector. The terminating leg can be used to determine which sector that is.

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by Jim Fetters:
Why not create a standard where surrounding sectors are labeled similar to subsectors within, such as something similar to this ('X' is the current sector described in the data):

123
4X5
678

Then do something similar to your idea and mark the start and end sectors and hexes, but the sectors are more generically described.

Galactic marked the trade routes with a sector x,y mark and a hex id. If the start or end of the sector was in the current sector, the sector mark was 0,0. If the start or end was in the coreward sector the sector mark was 0, -1. If the start or end was in the spinward sector, the sector mark was -1,0. And so on. This allows marking the map with the correct line without knowing exactly what the other sector are.

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Merxiless:
Best of luck to someone that wants to write something that combines the best of both.

As far as I understand it, the author of H&E right after it was completed, retired from software programming for traveller applications, after completing his masterpiece, because hordes of potential end-users with no damn patience kept demanding him to release the software, even though it was free. Demanding to the point of beyond annoyance, beyond rationality.

Originally posted by Hemdian:
Not exactly. Stuart did start work on HE2 (a complete rewrite into VB.NET). However, part way through RL issues conspired to make his spending more time impractical. So for the moment the HE2 project is officially abandoned. (Some of the HE2 modules were even released as alpha to a select group of tame testers.)

That is too bad, and certainly unfortunate. That explains why the e-mail that I sent to him immediately bounced.

The program is damn useful, despite its problems. I was hoping to help him test or whatever was needed from a user, but oh well.

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by robject:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jim Fetters:

Why not create a standard where surrounding sectors are labeled similar to subsectors within, such as something similar to this ('X' is the current sector described in the data):

123
4X5
678

Then do something similar to your idea and mark the start and end sectors and hexes, but the sectors are more generically described.

Hey Jim, you wouldn't even need that: all you'd need is a flag that indicates that the terminating hex is in a different sector. The terminating leg can be used to determine which sector that is. </font>[/QUOTE]

Originally posted by tjoneslo:

Galactic marked the trade routes with a sector x,y mark and a hex id. If the start or end of the sector was in the current sector, the sector mark was 0,0. If the start or end was in the coreward sector the sector mark was 0, -1. If the start or end was in the spinward sector, the sector mark was -1,0. And so on. This allows marking the map with the correct line without knowing exactly what the other sector are.

Hey, that works for me! Less is more!

 

[robject]

That little quote from Jim made me think of a quote from Boot Hill, AZ:

HERE
LIES

Lester Moore
four slugs
from a 44

NO LES
NO MORE

 

[BillDowns]

In looking over the recent posts, it looks like the idea of using relative sector or subsector coordinates for x-boat routes is the most popular, right?

I have a few questions to pose, then.
1) How are Subsectors identified within a Sector?

2) How will Sectors be identified?

3) Do X-boat routes belong to Sectors or Subsectors?

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by BillDowns:


I have a few questions to pose, then.
1) How are Subsectors identified within a Sector?

Use the standard that has always been used - letters A-P.

2) How will Sectors be identified?

Do they need to be? I guess it depends on what the largest data grouping is. If the Sector is the largest, then I don't think it is needed. But for something like Universe, that builds an entire database, then it may be necessary.

3) Do X-boat routes belong to Sectors or Subsectors?

Sectors. Since we are basically saying that (as I understand it, anyway) that an X-boat route goes "out-sector" without necessarily defining the endpoint, all routes should be defined by sector references.

 

[JAFARR]

How does this work for those of us with older machines and software? The fact remains that by the time you get the money to upgrade to the newest and best equipment - both hardware and/or software, it is out of date. Most of us can't shell out the credits to stay on the cutting edge, which means all the folks who might like to use this system may not have the computer where with all to do so. My current computer is about maxed out unless I upgrade to XP os & software, but I only owe $100 on a newer machine. Trouble is, I don't know how far I can upgrade it until I finish paying for it and get to bring it home. I know I'll upgrade the memory, but I dont know how much or what kind of memory it uses until I can eyeball the mother board. The pawn shop wouldn't let me open it up til it is paid out. Same for the CPU and a graphics card. Then there is the matter of newer software.

I quess what I am saying is you need to also set a standard of what hardware and software will be needed to acheive this project and use the output from it.

 

[BillDowns]

Andy, you got qbasic? Give me a few days, and I'll write an XML to CSV converter. I have not liked what Excel does to the XML transactions anyway.

It sorts the data by tag name and does not insert it in the order it came in.