Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Less fair was their policy of actively driving competing games shops out of business. Allegedly.
Traveller in White Dwarf
- Thread starter Keklas Rekobah
- Start date
Less fair was their policy of actively driving competing games shops out of business. Allegedly.
Lol, whilst a popular theory it doesn't wash. At the time GW stores apparently started driving other stores out of business, they had maybe 20 odd shops (someone with #100 can probably count them). From there the claim is they destroyed the livehoods of hundreds of FLGS's by the unusual tactic of selling only one product, albeit one they made to be a very popular one.
The claim FLGS's went out of business because of this dedicated single game company store, kinda implies that every other game companies products were errr... cr**... Its even more convoluted because at the same time GW Trade Sales were still selling to them, so they still stocked what they wanted and had access to the entire GW range.
So we have a situation where a FLGS with product from many companies including GW, cannot compete against a GW company owned store that only sells GW.
So if the FLGS have an advantage with product variety, why do they drop like flies at the mere hint of a GW opening near them. The answer lies in two related areas, customer service & owner motivation. In most cases GW wins hands down with customer service and getting customers involved in the store. The customer base they gain vote with thier feet.
Owner motivation, which has huge implications for customer service and getting customers involved in their store, also includes that many life long FLGS owners are tired. The novelty wears off after a year or two, life becomes a drudge of stocking shelves and talking to the same familiar faces. GW turns up with their fresh faced, over the top, in your face staff selling a crap product that no "real" gamer wants and somehow the FLGS dies despite all the great games they stock and the knowledge the owner can impart (if he's not sitting behind the counter, obviously bored & reading a comic).
I am a little biased on this subject, I worked for GW Retail for 9 years, including time in Trade Sales and after that opened my own FLGS. I watched with interest as GW opened in the next shopping centre, no impact on sales, if anything sales increased as my store was handier for many. After 5 years tho' my motivation & interest had dried up and I closed.
I am proud to say I resisted the easy route of blaming GW for my stores demise, primarily because there is no truth in it. FLGS's die because the owners have lost their original enthusiasm. GW just sacks the manager & gets a new one.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
They still had large stocks of other games at the time, which they started selling at a huge discount - according to the manager of the Leeds Virgin games dept they probably made a loss on most. The profit margins on RPGs are slim anyway, so rather than fight they they just phased them out in favour of computer games. The Armoury closed soon after, followed by Games (helped, I'm told, by the poaching of senior staff). Of the four pre-GW FLGS in Leeds, only Travelling Man survived, probably because they also sold comics.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
I know ... I just want to be able to trace the rise and the fall of what once was a truly eclectic magazine -- from the first issue, right up to the official announcement of monolithic focus.
Yep, but that was to clear old stock. The "good stuff" went in the first sale, it took years to get rid of the rest because no one wanted it...
Maybe computer games were more profitable then. Today the margins are very tight unless you have bulk buying power (ie: EB Games). Whilst RPG & wargames margins have always been retail freindly, otherwise stores wouldn't be viable in the first place.
Whilst its sad to see stores close, there are a multitude of reasons for doing so. An outside shock may well have been the final straw when you are on your last legs anyway. I find it implausible however that GW was THE reason, but I find it VERY plausible that GW was blamed to save face or that the anti-GW customer base put two & two together to make five...
One thing this "blame GW" approach has done is put people off opening thier own store, normally when a shop dies, a new one will open up to fill the void. When so many people repeat "GW is all powerfull" it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.
There are a dozen to twenty large publishers out there dieing to get their products into more FLGS. They offer good margins, promotional material, gaming support, access to advertising and often contact with enthusiastic gamers in the local area. Wargames clubs very quickly rally behind a new FLGS.
New FLGS's aren't opening tho because of perceptions that;
- GW owns the customer base
- no one plays anything else
- GW staff are too freindly, too salesy, too well trained, run games all the time, recruit "young kids", ignore "old kids", sell a crappy product, etc
- GW only sells to FLGS 'cause its a trick!
- Without GW product you can't make money
- Without GW product no one will buy off you
- If I'm successful GW will open a store next door and steal all my RPGers, historical & fantasy wargamers, German board gamers, comic collectors, modellers, railway enthusiasts, card gamers, RC aircraft and kite flyers.
- And somehow GW brainwashes all those kids to never, ever try playing anything else...
Gosh that GW is sneaky...
Can I ask what you paid for #1? And did it come with the binders?
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
GW certainly had the motive and the ability, and it all worked out conveniently well for them. And given their attitude towards WD's readers and staff at the time it's not out of character.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
I think the biggest killer for games shops has been, and continues to be, the internet. GW seems to be big enough to ride it, especially since, selling only one product, they can decide for themselves how they market it.
Not that I have any love for GW. I walked into one of their shops during their expansion era enquiring about Traveller, which until recently had been one of their lines. While I didn't get any actual abuse, their attitude was the next thing to it, extremely insolent and unhelpful. I've never entered a GW shop or bought their products since.
Doesn't seem to have undermined their business, though.
Not that I have any love for GW. I walked into one of their shops during their expansion era enquiring about Traveller, which until recently had been one of their lines. While I didn't get any actual abuse, their attitude was the next thing to it, extremely insolent and unhelpful. I've never entered a GW shop or bought their products since.
Doesn't seem to have undermined their business, though.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
I posted a similar rant/winge somewhere on this site about a GW:WH40K store on Brookhurst near Anaheim. Mention "Traveller" in there, and they'll only direct you to the used book bins.
I have to agree. Both stores that I saw this happen to were very successful for several years and as the owners stopped being actively involved (creating game nights for newbies, contests, tournaments, etc.) the decline started. Unlike other types of retail, these places have to engender a sense of community and be a place that is fun to hang out in.
My experiance with GW stores
My experience with GW stores is that they were someplace for yuppies to drop off their kids ,while they shopped at the mall. I ended up Playing Warhammer because Micro armor players and historical minis wargamers all dissappeared. I woke up one morning went my FLGS to discover Warhammer and Warhammer 40k ,were now the only game in town.........
My experience with GW stores is that they were someplace for yuppies to drop off their kids ,while they shopped at the mall. I ended up Playing Warhammer because Micro armor players and historical minis wargamers all dissappeared. I woke up one morning went my FLGS to discover Warhammer and Warhammer 40k ,were now the only game in town.........
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I would someday like to see the White Dwarf Traveller articles. But that ain't gonna happen.
And now the GW stores in Danvers and in Cambridge are gone...o:
And now the GW stores in Danvers and in Cambridge are gone...
o:whitedalek
SOC-9
someone made a pdf of all the WD Traveller articles
the scan quality was uneven, but there were more than 100 pages IIRC
the scan quality was uneven, but there were more than 100 pages IIRC
Thoth-Amon
SOC-12
That's something I'd love to have a copy of.
Who owns the rights to White Dwarf?
Access to it is easy to get, but I have shied away from it since I am unsure of the whole fair use vs piracy issue.
[EDIT]: OOps, I found the answer in post 9
Access to it is easy to get, but I have shied away from it since I am unsure of the whole fair use vs piracy issue.
[EDIT]: OOps, I found the answer in post 9
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Thoth-Amon
SOC-12
Ah, that's too bad for I would have loved a copy. :/
whitedalek
SOC-9
do you think WD would ever repurpose its older (pre WH40k) issues as a CD collection ??
and would anyone want ePub versions or more 'traditional' PDFs ?
assuming iPad or Android tablets become more popular as game aid platforms than laptop/netbooks are today
and would anyone want ePub versions or more 'traditional' PDFs ?
assuming iPad or Android tablets become more popular as game aid platforms than laptop/netbooks are today
Depends a lot on several things, not the least of which is how much GW actually owns (vs had single-use rights for) of the content.
Judging by Andy Slack having republished most of his WD Articles (for a variety of systems), it appears WD had single use rights. Or is pointedly ignoring Andy. (Unlikely... they are prone to trying to squeeze a penny from anyplace they can gouge for one, and are exceedingly protective of their IP, even when it's IP they no longer have rights to use, like the old Judge Dredd RPG....)
And without explicit rights for reprint, it would be a VERY bad idea legally for them to reprint the mags as PDFs...
See also Kenzer & Co vs Wizards of the Coast.... which is why the Dragon CD's have been withdrawn.... TSR had no reprint rights, and Jolly's artwork in some of them was an IP violation.
Bishop Odo
SOC-12
I once had an index of all the Traveller related articles in White Dwarf ,but lost it due to drive crash is there one out there?
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