Traveller on Digital Devices Discussion

[mbrinkhues]

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The discussion here originated in this thread (about page 5):

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=23454

Please carry on...

Software has a big problem - What platform do you aim for? I,e I could not make use of OpenOffice since I prefer MS-Office and won't install OO. So for me it would be Excel/VBA (that in turn does not run on OO). Same for platforms, do a Windows only and the moanng minority of Masochist-OS as well as the Church of Jobs will sound of. Neglet Windows and all the Worker drohnes will be unhappy,(Me personally I only take Fortran/Dicol Software on 8inch floppies for the old ORG/M platform). Use ,NET/MONO and people will protest agaist having to install that framework, use JAVA and they moan about the JRE they must download. Use a WebApp and the protest is about "my data is not on my box" and/or "what if the server is down/I have no connection"...

DnD3rd did a software once and no more than a prototype supporting base rules. GURPS did Windows stuff for 3E and 4E but got critizized for not doing other OS more than once. Hero never updated the old Heromaker

 

[Gray Lensman]

I would have to say that he does have a point

 

[HG_B]

Software has a big problem - What platform do you aim for? I,e I could not make use of OpenOffice since I prefer MS-Office and won't install OO. So for me it would be Excel/VBA (that in turn does not run on OO). Same for platforms, do a Windows only and the moanng minority of Masochist-OS as well as the Church of Jobs will sound of.

Simple, you do it logically.

O/S = Windows as >90% of people use it.
If spreadsheet, OO as it's free and available on multi O/S's for free.


In mktg you go where the sales are. After it gets rolling and if you have resources to burn, you expand to niche markets like OS X.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Simple, you do it logically.

O/S = Windows as >90% of people use it.
If spreadsheet, OO as it's free and available on multi O/S's for free.


In mktg you go where the sales are. After it gets rolling and if you have resources to burn, you expand to niche markets like OS X.

Well, the OO equation isn't as clear cut. The main office package on the market is MS and "just install OO" will cause problems for many users. Starting with the download and ending with the beast registering files to itself by default. First time the stupid Writer pops up when clicking a .doc and many users kill OO.

 

[HG_B]

Well, the OO equation isn't as clear cut. The main office package on the market is MS and "just install OO" will cause problems for many users. Starting with the download and ending with the beast registering files to itself by default. First time the stupid Writer pops up when clicking a .doc and many users kill OO.

Yes, it is the main one. However, it is only usable for those who purchase. Also, you don't have to install OO in order to use a spreadsheet created in it. You can open in Excel. So yes, it is the logical choice. A piece of s/w that can be used by all or, one that can't...

 

[mbrinkhues]

Yes, it is the main one. However, it is only usable for those who purchase. Also, you don't have to install OO in order to use a spreadsheet created in it. You can open in Excel. So yes, it is the logical choice. A piece of s/w that can be used by all or, one that can't...

Any sheet making use of more than the base features is no longer compatible either way. MS Office and OO differ quite fast. And any good looking/professional sheet WILL use that stuff. That's the reason why OO never makes it in business (All the VBA stuff won't run) and OO sheets with decend GUI won't run under Excel.

Besides OO is a dying platform. With Oracle pulling the programmers the thing will die since more than 90 percent of the development where and are done by StarOffice/SUN/Oracle.

 

[Sanjuro]

I just bought a load of cds from FFE (incidentally, thanks Marc for sorting out the 443 refund!), but this was more out of nostalgia than with any serious prospect of playing the games. Any rpg I get to play (I do not count computer games as rpgs yet) is likely to have to be over the net; even then I am going to have to find a group that is very flexible about timing because I work very odd, and highly variable, shifts.
Spreadsheets to handle character creation, world generation and ship design would be great; however, the variety of platforms to be supported suggests they would have to be fan generated, and at best marketed through FFE or Mongoose.
A friend once wote programs to support combat in Merp; these would deal with everything from the dice roll (done by the player and entered by the programmer), through critical hits and even allocate xp. However, this was on a 1980s Amstrad (CPC?) using tape drives, for a game system now actively suppressed by the licence owner.
Maybe I should start learning Excel properly, and make my own- it would give me something to do between those oddly timed shifts!

 

[Andrew Boulton]

You hit it on the head there. There is one area of the product that has been neglected for at LEAST since MT. Computer aspect like you say. Why don't the newer versions come with even simple tools like spreadsheets, databases, etc?

T5 is planned to include some.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

As others have stated upthread, There isn't any official software to take the grind out of designing things, there are no longer any associated figurines, there are no official VTT maps, deckplans, character icons, etc, or tools for creating your own.

There's some good fan-produced s/w, plus Cosmographer 3.

There're no figures 'cos there's no market.

Look at Andrew's great movie shorts. Imagine what it could do for Traveller sales if those (and longer ones, by more varied artists) were played at conventions/gamestores. Hell, AFAIK they're not even shown on the FFE website

I hereby give permission (and they are on the FFE site).

 

[mbrinkhues]

Well Chargen might stretch the limits of "plain" spreadsheets (Forcing VBA or the OO equivalent) due to the event tables in MGT. Not to mention the idea of "group generation" integrated in the rules set.

 

[HG_B]

T5 is planned to include some.

I DO like that it might have some s/w.

Hopefully BEFORE it is designed some research will be conducted OUTSIDE of just those who have pre purchased T5. Somehow, I doubt that will be the case as I go to most Trav forums and no mention of official s/w.

 

[HG_B]

Well Chargen might stretch the limits of "plain" spreadsheets (Forcing VBA or the OO equivalent) due to the event tables in MGT. Not to mention the idea of "group generation" integrated in the rules set.

Agreed. Just do it as a multi-platform DB app.

 

[mbrinkhues]

What platforms? Big changing market. A year or two ago I would have ruled out a client-server set. These days with Netbooks and big screened Android mobiles all around I might rethink it. If one can package an PHB-proof installer for the server components it might work.

 

[HG_B]

What platforms? Big changing market. A year or two ago I would have ruled out a client-server set. These days with Netbooks and big screened Android mobiles all around I might rethink it. If one can package an PHB-proof installer for the server components it might work.

1st assess market share. What single platform is used by >90% of the people?
P2P if linking. GM side acting as server.

 

[mbrinkhues]

1st assess market share. What single platform is used by >90% of the people?
P2P if linking. GM side acting as server.

That is the problem with mobile platforms. There is no 90% share. I.e I own no Laptop but a HTC Desire "Android", others own "Laptops" of the portable class they won't lug to the game table, others again own notebooks and the next use WiMo6.5 or (may Odin smite them) a CoJ i(osef)Pad.

Same for what server system to use. Some won't install .NET and IIS, others don't like JRE/JDK and Tomcat. No clear market share there either.

 

[HG_B]

That is the problem with mobile platforms. There is no 90% share. I.e I own no Laptop but a HTC Desire "Android", others own "Laptops" of the portable class they won't lug to the game table,

In the grand scheme of things, statistically speaking, no one owns "android", etc.

Most people who use computerized game aids use a lap top. Done.

 

[mbrinkhues]

In the grand scheme of things, statistically speaking, no one owns "android", etc.

Most people who use computerized game aids use a lap top. Done.

Not really. Smartphones are a LOT more common than Laptop. The WiMo5/6/6.5 series and various other Internet-capabel systems are a dozend a dime and dirt cheap (Got my HTC for 40€ as part of the contract I need anyway) IMHO I have my THIRD smartphone in eight years OTOH I never owned a laptop nor do I plan to own one due to the lousy cost/benefit ratio (And I work in the computer business)

In 2008 and 2009 the number of Smartphones sold was over a 150 Million. EACH year. And 2010 was even better. Lots of phones with Internet capacity

 

[HG_B]

Not really. Smartphones are a LOT more common than Laptop.

Really? Which SINGLE smart phone OS is in use by more people than laptops? Stats? Can you do P2P client serv apps with it using one phone as the server?

What % of people are going to want to design a ship on one, play a remote game on one, pay for the per minute charges, etc., etc. It's a dead end as far as the primary platform for this type of thing. No matter how much you want it personally.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Really? Which SINGLE smart phone OS is in use by more people than laptops? Stats? Can you do P2P client serv apps with it using one phone as the server?

What % of people are going to want to design a ship on one, play a remote game on one, pay for the per minute charges, etc., etc. It's a dead end as far as the primary platform for this type of thing. No matter how much you want it personally.

The four main platforms currently are

WiMo5+ (5/6/6.5)
iPhone OS
Android 1.6 or better
Nokia Symbian

IIRC in this range i Europe (US is a bit different) and covering most of the stuff. Not that it matters. ALL platforms support a browser and that's all it takes for a client. As for the server, three of them support JAVA either fully or ME (and ME is enough). Apple supports something strange but porting a Java server to that isn't all that complex (Clients are another thing but we don't need to port clients). You can also add MAEMO and MEEGO (Nokia 770/8xx/900 tablets) as well as the iPad and the various Android tablets to the client-side mix since they also support browsers

As for a server: YES the phones actually CAN do that. P2P only requires a known address and the above phones support TCP/IP. Heck, my Desire is a mobile WLAN hotspot if I activate the function.

As for payment: Who pays per minute? The common contract for a smartphone is "Unlimited data traffic" here in germany. Besides many can use WLAN and/or BlueTooth in DataTransferModes (i.e my old HTC Athena could use Bluetooth to share Internet access)

And who says that client and server must run on the same system. Using the home server in the GMs basement for server and phones/tablets for clients works fine.

 

[HG_B]

The four main platforms currently are

WiMo5+ (5/6/6.5)
iPhone OS
Android 1.6 or better
Nokia Symbian

Yes, I know that. The main question I asked was, "Which SINGLE smart phone OS is in use by more people than laptops?" as this has to do with mktg & allocation of resources.