Traveller Oolite project

[BeRKA]

An answer about scale:

"Oolite models are defined in nominal metres. For reference, a Cobra III is 65 metres long, 130 metres wide and 30 metres high."

 

[BeRKA]

After looking at a few Elite like games that can be modified (Oolite, Vega Strike and a few others) I have decided to start making a Traveller modification for Oolite.

The reason for choosing Oolite, is that in my opinion, this game will be the easiest do a mod for.

Does anyone want to help me?

Edit:
Yahoogroup @ url:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/oolite_traveller/

 

[TheEngineer]

What exactly has to be done ?

 

[BeRKA]

Writing a lot of ascii files that defines the Traveller universe.

It has to be done for one galaxy (255 worlds).
It has to be done for equipment.
It has to be done for ships.
Some other stuff would need to be changed as well.

New ships has to be added. These needs to be 3D modeled with textures.

There still are some limitations with Oolite, so it cannot be exactly the canon Traveller setting, but it would probably be possible to do something good and fun anyway.

I think it will be a fun project, even though it is quite big...

 

[Klaus]

Oolite rocks.

It works on Mac!

I'm interested.....

 

[BeRKA]

I will set up a project page.

Until then, take a look at the Oolite wiki on how to make modifications (called OXPs).
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_howto

The plan so far:
The idea for the Traveller RPG mod would be to use galaxy-1. the player starts at Lave, that will have to be renamed. All other planets in galaxy-1 will be renamed and modified to fit better in a Traveller RPG setting. The galaxy drive will be disabled. A few new ships will be added. This is a big project, but we will be having fun doing it.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by BeRKA:
Writing a lot of ascii files that defines the Traveller universe.

It has to be done for one galaxy (255 worlds).
It has to be done for equipment.
It has to be done for ships.
Some other stuff would need to be changed as well.

New ships has to be added. These needs to be 3D modeled with textures.

There still are some limitations with Oolite, so it cannot be exactly the canon Traveller setting, but it would probably be possible to do something good and fun anyway.

I think it will be a fun project, even though it is quite big...

What kind of poly and texture limits are you looking at for the ships? What ships are you looking for?

 

[BeRKA]

To start with we would just need simple designs. We can improve these later.

We would need all kinds of ships. Good ships to start with would be a "scout ship" and a "far trader".

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by BeRKA:
To start with we would just need simple designs. We can improve these later.

We would need all kinds of ships. Good ships to start with would be a "scout ship" and a "far trader".

That doesn't answer the question. One man's simple is another man's impossible. But the poly count and texture limits are something that I would need before even attempting to make ships for this. (I saw that 512x512 is normal, but it doesn't specify how many 512x512 texture maps the system can handle.) I have seen ships with 500,000 polys. (Though I assume that is a bit over the top.) The AHL I was working on was around 150,000 polys. You could do a Type S, if you leave the turret off, with less than 20 polys, but that is the exception not the rule. Does the engine handle bump and/or displacement maps?

Most games are low poly. Most 3D art is done at levels that would choke game engines. And I assume you want to be able to have more than one ship at a time involved.

 

[BeRKA]

Take a look at these sceenshots, to see what we are after:
http://oolite.aegidian.org/screenshots/

Or this shiplist:
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Ships

At the moment I don't know what would be realistic for the game without choking the game engine. A 20 polygon "scout ship" would be something to start and learn with and to try out some ideas.

 

[Ishmael]

I'll give it a go once given a poly budget so long as I don't have to work under a deadline

I suck at texturing though

 

[BetterThanLife]

If someone would grab some of the more complicated ships from the second link (I am think the Falcon, a Tie Fighter, and the Starseeker personal shuttle are probably representative of the highest poly count you would want.) and convert them back to OBJ format. (I have no way to get read the format they are currently in.) I can figure out a good max poly count for ships. Since we are dealing with obj format, then that means that bump maps probably work, transparency and displacements won't.

BTW a 20 Poly Type S doesn't look that good, but at least is recognizable.

There is no way to do a Free Trader or Far Trader, or heaven forbid a Broadsword and even get close under those restrictions. The problem is Traveller ships, especially as time went on, have lots of rounded edges. When you have curves, especially 3D curves Poly Counts go through the roof. As an example, a good looking cylinder has 18-24 polygons excluding the ends, though you can probably in low res situation, get away with 12. For a Sphere you can probably get away with around 200 but a good looking sphere is around 400.

So a Ship's Boat is going to be at least 172 polys and to look decent should be more than twice that. A Broadsword is going to run you almost 500 Polygons without the cutter wells (or cutters sticking out). Adding the cutters takes you, if you are careful, to around 1000. (Without any turrets.) Double that if you actually want to have a decent look at it and minimum quadruple it if you want to look good at mid ranges. My guess would be that Andrew's (From his mini movie, "Striker") run in the 25K range at a minimum.

Which is why I am trying to nail down the reasonable specs for what the software is capable of handling.

I could also use a scale they should be done to. (I know they can be scaled later, but if everything is to the same scale it is easier.)
After all you don't really want an AHL to appear to be the same size as a Cutter.

 

[BetterThanLife]

As an example this is a Scout ship based on the QLI deckplans I have been working on, off and on. I will have to start over as this particular model has some issues that would be easier to restart than fix.



Obviously it isn't textured yet. As it sits right now it is about 4500 polys.

 

[BeRKA]

A first answer of what might work (for a fast computer) can be found in this thread:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3407

Simple tutorials for making ships for the game can be found here:
http://oolite.aegidian.org/cyoship/
http://oolite.aegidian.org/cyoship2/

 

[BetterThanLife]

OK, Based on that I would guess we are looking at a ceiling of around 1000 Polys. So if one is careful Most of the classic ships should be at least recognizable, though don't expect much detail, and maximizing appearance while minimizing polys that strictly is an art all its own.

In between work and other projects, I'll see what I can come up with. Any clue on scale?

 

[Ishmael]

if I do any ships, I'll do 1 blender unit=.15 meters
that way I can lay out deck plans for other projects...

1000 polys?...or 1000 tris....
detail should be done with texturing anyways...
what format is prefered?... .obj?

where would these ships be sent to?
< I don't play the game btw..I'm just not much of a computer gamer >

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Ishmael James:
if I do any ships, I'll do 1 blender unit=.15 meters
that way I can lay out deck plans for other projects...

1000 polys?...or 1000 tris....
detail should be done with texturing anyways...
what format is prefered?... .obj?

where would these ships be sent to?
< I don't play the game btw..I'm just not much of a computer gamer >

He said polys in the post.

As for what should be done with geometry and what should be done with texturing? That depends on what details you are showing. There is a limit to 512x512 pixels for textures as well.

I am curious if Bump maps work though.

According to one thing I read obj can be easily converted to dat, if you have a Mac. (Which I don't.) Which is what is actually used.

 

[Ishmael]

a tri is a poly...a poly is not neccessarily a tri
a lot of folk use poly to mean a quad, which is 2 tris...

multi-textures?

I guess I'll just start making things until any plans actually gel

 

[Ishmael]

of course, why stop with oolite and spaceships?
how about a trav inspired game using something like sauerbraten?

 

[BeRKA]

An answer I got about limitations:

"320 vertices, 512 faces, 7 materials per entity (not 8 as previously reported). More can be achieved using subentities. Beyond that, it’s a question of hardware speed."