Traveller religions?

[The Thing]

After reading the article on the people who go jump just to stare out the windows, I have a few questions I was hoping someone grognardier than me could answer.

What is this about looking out into jumpspace causing madness? What kind of madness? Raving psychosis, catatonia, etc?

I don't think GT went into this much, so I'm a little in the dark.

What are these drugs they use to lessen this madness? I'd think they'd be standard issue on ships in event a disaster forced people to have to see jumpspace, sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Gadrin]

After reading the article on the people who go jump just to stare out the windows, I have a few questions I was hoping someone grognardier than me could answer.

What is this about looking out into jumpspace causing madness? What kind of madness? Raving psychosis, catatonia, etc?

I don't think GT went into this much, so I'm a little in the dark.

What are these drugs they use to lessen this madness? I'd think they'd be standard issue on ships in event a disaster forced people to have to see jumpspace, sounds reasonable to me.

well, there was a recent post from a newcomer about the "properties of jumpspace" and yesterday I happened to read p81 from the Milieu-Zero pdf on Misjump in the Great Rift where a old ship, long past maintenance takes on religious nuts who want to stare into jumpspace via a large viewscreen in the cargo hold.

But they don't go mad, and help solve the misjump issue.

Okay it's fluff text but it's another option for you.

As for particular drugs, anything that probably induces sleep would be fine, including Fast. Anything to dull the senses and prevent focusing on the event as it happens, assuming the raving part is actually canon, or adopted as such.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I'm not sure where jumpspace insanity first appeared - it may have been borrowed from elsewhere (Ringworld?)

I see the symptoms as being like schizophrenia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

 

[Rraurgrimm]

As far as I know - one does not really see into jumpspace from inside a jumping starship. One does see the inside of the hydrogen bubble (kept together by whatever the jumpdrive does apart from moving the ship in, through and out of jumpspace) surrounding and protecting the ship against jumpspace effects and it was described as simple grey without any strange effects running through it. Should one try to leave that bubble in mid-jumpspace - one vanished into it even if tethered to the ship.
BUT - that may of course be easily changed. Perhaps one can at least imagine seing more than just grey. Perhaps it IS possible to see beyond the protective layer somehow, seeing the true nature of jumpspace and going mad from it, with unnameable, rare creatures lurking out there, being responsible for the ships lost in the unknown. The Dark between the Stars someone? Fading Suns and undampened jumps that let the travellers feel the full sensation of becoming one with something greater (Sathra-effect?)? Or is it some kind of PSI phenomenon, possibly awaking dormant abilities and the inner self like in Forbidden Planet?

Yet the canonical Traveller universe does seem to have a pretty, clean and reliable jump routine. Interstellar trade flourishes, passenger ships run regular routes, warships protecting them and the occasional pirate plying for booty. If there was a danger - wouldn't something like that have been recorded in the thousands of years of interstellar travel?

-------------------------------------------------------

The only religion we did encounter during our travels through the Islands Cluster (yes, basically a modified version of the Six Trillion credit squad setting) was some kind of evolved Scientology variant, the "Wheel of Life". The Islands Cluster was settled by sublight sleeper ships from good old Terra and did enjoy thousands of years of undisturbed cultural development, the closest distance to Imperial space being eight parsecs. Only rather recently a misjumped Navy ship did discover that there were humans from Terra living there and with the help of a midway fuel depot or freighters capable of bringing enough fuel for two jumps with them they contacted the factions of the Islands Cluster.
The "Wheel of Life" believes in a highly evolved race (the Federation) that managed to leave the physical manifestation behind (-->Ancients?). They have achieved this thousands of years ago and they did manipulate at least humaniti, possibly the other sentient races - and only those achieving true spirituality are able to get to their plane of existence. Should they notice that someone managed to reach their plane of existence - they will contact them and coexist on their plane. Scientology ultimately failed at this, being "too technologically oriented and too physical" so a concentration on the spiritual elements of Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism combined with the knowledge of PSI phenomenons (mostly unexplored) became what is known as the "Wheel of Life". So far we had only loose contacts with "Wheelies" but they seem to be a "rather passive, nice and close-knit bunch" as one of my fellow players aptly put it. Yes, sometimes using real-life references can be both scary and rewarding.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Established in Canon Traveller are:

+ The Vagr Church where Vagr believe they are the choosen tool of the Ancients and that said Ancients will come and finish their work any day now

+ The Iilish church that believes only dying on Iilish guarantees you passage to the afterlive and that pacifism is the way. Guys prefer black and a certain Archduke (while not a believer) honors them by doing so too. The church later adds "dying in battle for the domain" as an alternate way to the afterlife but does split over it.

+ The KKree with the "kill/subject all meat-eaters"

+ A number of planets have religious dictatorships (including one base merc ticket)

+ The Vilanie have priests/food chemists and prayed to ancient maschine gods (Ancient Artifacts) during their early days


If/what religions still exist will depend on the region of space and the politics of the individual religion.

I'd assume the Solomanies to repress Religion since they believe the Solomanie Movement is the end all and be all. OTOH that could result in some nice adventures, smuggling members of religious groups over the border, rescuing them from prison camps etc. Time to dust of the "Missing in Action" video tapes

The 3I will allow/ignore local religions unless they are interfering with trade. So an extremly isolationist movement on a central planet (Say major trade-route crosspoint) will get the attention of Imperial Intelligence. Most likely a long term project designed to split the religion in multiple sects.

The 3I will keep an eye on religions advancing past a single world and/or affecting a higher nobel. Can't have a duke go pacifist and drop defence-readiness, can we. What do you mean, the duke fell out of an airlock? Bad accident, send our regrets...

I'd say Zhodanie will have no religion, it seems not right for them. More a "think right" philosophy encouraged by the Thought Police.

The Hivers most likely teach "Inventing local Religion for fun and profit" as part of the Bachelor of Manipulation. Did anyone realise that the great old ones tend to have lots of tentacles...

 

[Darkhstarr]

My wife's corsair captain's a priestess of her home planet's shinto/buddhist religion when she not actively raiding.

 

[Plankowner]

I have played devout Catholics and Islamic characters before.

In most of my games, as in Traveller in general, religion seems to be a missing segment of society. This may have been deliberate on the part of MM or just an oversight while working out the muzzle velocities of a Gauss Rifle...

I do disagree that the Solomani would be "religion free" I would think that the Solomani Movement would have very strong religious ties. "God's will that Humans rule the universe" is much easier to sell than "It's our Destiny to rule the universe".

I also think I read somewhere that Imperial Catholicism was a common religion. Tying religion to your Emperor is a very common idea from Human history. If the King is also appointed by God, then it makes it easier for everyone to follow him.

I would be very surprised if there were not one or two major religions in the Imperium and involve the Imperial Family (pre-assassination of course). Who crowns the Emperor and does he rule "By the Grace of God" in some form? It seems to me that he would.

 

[Captain Midnight]

Religion can actually be a broader topic than you might think at first.

It gets a lot of superficial treatment in fiction and in gaming materials, since much of what we're seeing there is targeted at people with a grounding in (and familiarity with) a Judeo-Christian faith. Many "religious beliefs" portrayed in those sources are just various flavors of Protestant Christianity covered with a coat of paint and some weird version of "bells and smells".

However, it can cover a lot more than that. It requires getting into cultural details for each group, and that's often more work than a GM feels like putting into the background -- if the game is just about a group of mercenaries wandering from world to world, who seldom interact with a local in any way besides shooting him or ordering a drink from him, there's little point in a GM doing that much work. However, there are a lot of questions that religions can answer, after a fashion, and those can provide intriguing roleplaying possibilities.

For example, what is good in life? Why are we here? What is the best way to interact with each other (I can hear a lot of you muttering "X-ray lasers")? Why is one group of people more deserving of their circumstances than another, if they are at all? How does the universe exert influence on us, and if it does, why does it do so?

It can be refreshingly different to deal with NPCs that have motivations that you might not expect. They don't have to believe in a single omniscient god, or even in anything that could wear the label "deity" at all -- some may believe in "spirits", and some may believe their ancestors are watching over them. They may believe in "Luck" as a force that can be appeased or angered (just touch a player's "lucky dice" and see what happens, hm?), or they may believe that this existence is all we're ever going to get, so we'd better drink it to the very dregs.

It's a lot of work to establish this kind of background for your cultures, but it makes for a game world that seems ever so much more alive, and not just the same old "passageways in the highport".

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Absolutely, Capt Midnight! For a secular humanist, his reason is his god (essentially). His rituals involve empiricism and scientific authority is his bishop. I'm not bashing, simply pointing out that we often get trapped in thinking "religion" is only that which involves supernaturality. A religion is everything that goes with your belief system. (BTW, the "drink it to the dregs" religion would be pure materialism, with maybe a dash of hedonism.)

And, I agree that it certainly takes some effort to make a religion believable in a complex society. (It's always easy to do something in a "primitive" society. ) If you can pull it off, though, hurrah to you!

 

[Pagan priest]

Many years ago, while running a MT game, I had a player ask me about religions. My thought back then was that the more orthodox and "high church" type religions would be more likely to survive the long years from now on up to then. Having something like a Pope or some sort of council of High Priests or what have you would allow a religion to maintain some degree of doctrinal purity over the centuries. Without that, you would likely have the schisming similar to that after the Protestant Reformation happening on each and every world with a population rating higher than 4. You would also have some of these little religions adding in things from other religions, possibly including non-human origins.

It is likely that some of these little religions would spawn fanatical elements, going forth to preach the "One True Church of Smearing Blue Mud in Your Belly button as the Way to Holiness" with a convert or die message. A couple of centuries with people not willing to either convert or die should weed out that type of religion for the most part.

End result, thousands and thousands of tiny little religions, many of them just variations on a theme, plus a few grand old sector spanning mega churches with roots going back centuries or millenia.

On the other hand, many people would not be religious at all, in the current sense of the word. Many secularists claim that all religions are based on worship of the "God of the Gaps". In other words, people worship some sort of God out of ignorance as to how the world really works. As our knowledge of science increases, our need for any sort of Divinity decreases. By extrapolation, in the far future, when our knowledge has advanced a great deal and science education is more widely available, the need for any religion would be diminished. Under this model, any sort of "religion" would be based on self-enlightenment and raising one's own self to the highest potential. Or, as an alternative, on the greater good for the community. This later option would be especially popular on the very high population worlds.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

A couple of centuries with people not willing to either convert or die should weed out that type of religion for the most part.

Huh. It hasn't worked that way IRL. :nonono:

On the other hand, many people would not be religious at all, in the current sense of the word.

They would still have religions - they just wouldn't be quite as supernatural. (See my post above.)

Under this model, any sort of "religion" would be based on self-enlightenment and raising one's own self to the highest potential.

Pretty much a religion centered on self.

Or, as an alternative, on the greater good for the community.

A communal religion would be workable - until someone decided on the self-centered religion and mucked it all up.

This later option would be especially popular on the very high population worlds.

I don't see your reasoning on why a communal religion would be more likely on a hi-pop world? Why would that be?

 

[BlackBat242]

"Under this model, any sort of "religion" would be based on self-enlightenment and raising one's own self to the highest potential."
"Pretty much a religion centered on self."


Like Buddhism?




"Many secularists claim that all religions are based on worship of the "God of the Gaps". In other words, people worship some sort of God out of ignorance as to how the world really works."


And most Psychologists say they are wrong… that for most people, religion is based on the following: providing guidance on how to live your life and deal with others, making "The Great Beyond" (death and afterward) understandable, and especially, to seek meaning for apparently random events (like bridges collapsing, and why a particular individual survives or dies)… things that science and technology do not address in any psychologically satisfying way.

Therefore, religion would still meet a valid need for a large percentage of humans.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

"Under this model, any sort of "religion" would be based on self-enlightenment and raising one's own self to the highest potential."
"Pretty much a religion centered on self."

Like Buddhism?

Hmmm. I can't go much further without having to branch this over to the Pit.... But, yes, Buddhism is centered on self, not an other. Though there is some element of good works toward a fellow being involved, the central focus is on elevating oneself out of this existence. (Even those good works elevate one's own enlightenment.)

I'm not making judgments here (when I say "centered on self"), merely observing that it is still a religion. What matters is that it is a set of beliefs that govern your worldview. If your highest end is self-actualization (or self-enlightenment), your "god" (the center of your worship) is yourself. And - for humans - that seems to be a very popular religion.

 

[Merxiless]

I always used my own Traveller variant that had most of the common Terran Religions, slightly altered.

Alien religions, I never really worried about.

Either way, it was never really an issue other than.. "we go to this planet to get this artifact for the temple of the Prophet...Don't touch their feet, they don't like that, it's against their religion...What now? Oh, just kill them all, their an evil cult" type stuff, in different scenarios.

No player in a non D&D game over the last 30 years of play ever asked for or wanted to have a religion for their PC.

D&D games, clerics, sure. Everyone else.. not needed, nor wanted. Many PCs were "Declared Atheists."

I once asked a Traveller PC in character as an NPC, "What do you believe in?"

He answered, "An auto pistol to the head, will make an exit wound the size of your fist. That's what I believe."

Maybe it's the player groups I've had. Most players' pcs were essentially mercenaries of various types..in all games, not just Traveller.

 

[The Thing]

And, I agree that it certainly takes some effort to make a religion believable in a complex society.

So, uh, I take it you've never heard of L. Ron Hubbard or scientology then?

 

[Pagan priest]

I always used my own Traveller variant that had most of the common Terran Religions, slightly altered.

Alien religions, I never really worried about.

Either way, it was never really an issue other than.. "we go to this planet to get this artifact for the temple of the Prophet...Don't touch their feet, they don't like that, it's against their religion...What now? Oh, just kill them all, their an evil cult" type stuff, in different scenarios.

No player in a non D&D game over the last 30 years of play ever asked for or wanted to have a religion for their PC.

D&D games, clerics, sure. Everyone else.. not needed, nor wanted. Many PCs were "Declared Atheists."

Hmmm, in my campaigns, the Gods tend to take a personal and dim view of folks that try to claim They don't exist. :smirk:

I once asked a Traveller PC in character as an NPC, "What do you believe in?"

He answered, "An auto pistol to the head, will make an exit wound the size of your fist. That's what I believe."

Maybe it's the player groups I've had. Most players' pcs were essentially mercenaries of various types..in all games, not just Traveller.

It has been vary rare in any of my non-D&D games for religion to ever come to the forefront for any reason. If asked, most of my characters are the same as me. Unless it is game that might have vampires, undead and demons, I just don't care what religion peoples characters are.

 

[Pagan priest]

Huh. It hasn't worked that way IRL. :nonono:

Give it time. The current unpleasantness is only a couple of decades old. Islam will grow out of it, just like Christianity did.

A communal religion would be workable - until someone decided on the self-centered religion and mucked it all up.


I don't see your reasoning on why a communal religion would be more likely on a hi-pop world? Why would that be?

A religion based on working to improve the community for all to benefit? You don't see how that would be in the best interests of all concerned on a hi-pop world? I can easily see such a religion as a state sponcered thing on any hi-pop world, or any mid or low pop world with close living spaces, or hazardous conditions, or any other place where one malcontent could mess things up bad for a lot of people.

Just think of what a place like New Yok City would be like if evey one who lived there believed that it was their holy duty to spend at least 5 minutes a day working to clean up the city.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

So, uh, I take it you've never heard of L. Ron Hubbard or scientology then?

Well, I was speaking in terms of a broader religion. I don't classify Hollywierd as a "complex" society....

I can easily see such a religion as a state sponcered thing on any hi-pop world, or any mid or low pop world with close living spaces, or hazardous conditions, or any other place where one malcontent could mess things up bad for a lot of people.

Yes, I could see it turning into a religion after a while, though it would initially have to have the state as god, IMHO. Could be a really interesting cultural etymology for PCs to explore, too. (It's the will of Landru, after all!) I notice in your reply, though, you slightly tweaked your claim to not just be hi-pop worlds. That's what I was asking about, and you answered nicely.

Just think of what a place like New Yok City would be like if evey one who lived there believed that it was their holy duty to spend at least 5 minutes a day working to clean up the city.

Hehe he..... :rofl: sorry, I'll.... he he he ... :rofl: .... recover in a minute...

OK. That would be interesting. It would also be creepy, as it would seem unnatural (even if it was an alien culture) to humans. There would be the assumption (by players) that there must be a "Landru" behind the curtain.

(Stupid 4 image limit.... )

 

[Brian Blank]

IMTU, Religion is similar to what was shown in Firefly/Serenity , at least within the more Terran influenced areas of the Empire. Christianity, Judaism, Buddahism and Islam are the most common. The Aslan tend to have a Code more so than a Deity. The K'Kree of course have their militant veganism.

One of my players has a "Shepard Book " type character. He's a man of the cloth on the surface but he has skills and knowledge that your typical pastor would not, unless said pastor were a former Special Forces/CIA/NSA type. Just too much fun an idea to pass up.

 

[Brian Blank]

Forgot to add these to my post. Enjoy
From WikiQuote

[Book pulls out a rifle.]
Book: This should do.
Zoë: Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?
Book: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.

Mal: I hear y'all took up arms in that little piece o' action back there. How're you faring with that, Doctor?
Simon: I don't know. I, uh… eh, I never… never shot anyone before.
Book: I was there, son. I'm fair sure you haven't shot anyone yet.