Traveller's Guide Development Log

[daryen]

Originally posted by rancke:
Furthermore, the text in The Spinward Marches Campaign claims that Entrope, Winston, and Anselhome are occupied by the Sword Worlds from the end of the Third Frontier War even though the maps show that it is from the end of the Fourth. And to make the confusion complete, The Spinward Marches shows the three Entropic worlds as belonging to the Darrians in 1105 and the UWP listings of SMC and RS show them as belonging to the Sword Worlds in 1110 and 1117 -- that is, the reverse of what the maps and the text show.

There is no possible way to reconcile these differences. My suggestion is that the Entropic Worlds and Torment were the four worlds lost by the Darrians in 593 and regained in 788. The Entropic Worlds (without Torment) were lost again during the Fourth Frontier War.

I can't help you on SMC, as I don't have it. (And I am not willing to pay $50+ to correct that, either!)

The Spinward Marches does show the Entropics as belonging to the Darrians, but specifically says that they "are in dispute" and the Zhodani are preventing a resolution. Which heavily implies that regardless of who is claiming them, the Sword Worlds are controlling them. So that particular piece actually agrees with our position.

I had never really notices the 1117 listing in the Regency Sourcebook (which I do have). I read the text, but just missed the allegiance codes. However, that is obviously an error as the text, in multiple places, says they were reclaimed by the Darrians in 1110.

I have to say that I love your proposed resolution, as that is exactly what I have suggested. I hope you succeed with it. (You shouldn't have too much problem with it, as it is pretty much the only workable solution at this point.)

PS. Cunnonic is an interesting case, BTW. Although originally settled by Darrians, the settlement maps show that it has been part of the Sword Worlds since before 300. I wonder just how happy they were to be 'liberated' in 1084.

I imagine they were not terribly happy about it. It was obviously somewhat of an issue, as the Darrians apparently made sure some of their Aslan settled on the planet.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by rancke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daryen:
It would seem that in the 90 years between the Fourth and Fifth Frontier Wars [Entrope] was essentially a subjugated planet, not a member planet, as the Confederation never let Entrope rebuild its starport.

4FW ended in 1084, 5FW began in 1107. That's 23 years, not 90.</font>[/QUOTE]OK, math screwup on my part. (BTW, my memory failed for the other time of Entropic participation in the Sword Worlds. The were there for just under 200 years, not 300 like I originally mentioned.)

That still doesn't invalidate my point that Entrope was a subjugated world that was never had a chance to rebuild under Sword World rule.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />(Do note that, unlike it was reported in GT:Far Trader, the Darrians did NOT cause the poor starport. The destruction of the starport was done by the Sword Worlds in the 4FW, and never rebuilt. It was only after the Darrians reclaimed Entrope that the starport rebuilding was able to begin.)

Rebuilding? According to BtC the starport is still only Class II ten years later, in 1120.</font>[/QUOTE]They had a Class I starport from 1084 (when the Sword Worlds destroyed their much better starport) until after their liberation in 1110. Entrope has managed to improve their starport an entire classification in a single decade. That's actually not too bad.

I imagine that by the time 1150 comes around they should be up to Class III, if not almost to Class IV. Assuming, of course, that the Sword Worlds leave them alone. (Have them go pick on Margesi, Vilis or the Border Worlds instead! )

BTW, can you tell Entrope has been a pet project of mine?

Finally, I do want to thank both of you (Paul and Hans) for the dialog. I really appreciate that you both not only tolerate my comments, but also try to answer my questions! Even more impressive is the amount of time and research you have put into this. I really do look forward to seeing the fruit of your efforts.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by daryen:
[Entrope] had a Class I starport from 1084 (when the Sword Worlds destroyed their much better starport) until after their liberation in 1110. Entrope has managed to improve their starport an entire classification in a single decade. That's actually not too bad.

If it had been an improvement from Class IV/B to Class V/A, it would have been impressive, but by no means unbelievable. When the improvement is from Class I/E to Class II/D, then I think it is singularly unimpressive.

I could imagine various reasons why the starport of a high-population world with Average Stellar technology might not, once any artificial restriction is removed, manage to get all the way from Class E to Class A in a decade. After all, jump drive technology takes a considerable infrastructure. I could even imagine why it would not make it to Class B (although I would have to come up with some substitute artificial restraint to explain it). But I have a really hard time imagining how any high-tech world with a decent population can fail to have at least a Class C starport unless they have no contact with the rest of the universe at all[*].

Obviously YMMV.

[*] Yes, that does mean there are several canonical starports in the Spinward Marches I have a hard time believing in .


Hans

 

[daryen]

A couple of years ago I would have completely agreed with your viewpoint. Unfortunately, MWM has been on record as saying that it should take on the order of a century for a world to go from a Class I to a Class V starport. I have no idea why, but there it is.

However, even going by a more realistic expectation, the Class II starport within a decade may still not be that bad when you consider how bad Entrope was left after its "liberation". Even BtC goes to some length in describing that even after that decade, they still suffer from rationing. The reason they are only Class II is because that is all they could afford to do.

There are a lot more inconsistencies in the Spinward Marches than just silly starports. These inconsistencies is precisely why Entrope became my pet project: it embodies just about every one of these inconsistencies.

The biggest problem is why the hell are the 10 BILLION people on Entrope in the first place? Entrope is a near-vacuum frozen ball of ice! However, right next door is Winston, a veritable GARDEN WORLD! There is, pretty much, no viable reason why Winston was not settled instead.

Believe me, I have tried to come up with a reason. But, I am sorry to say, that even what I ended up with isn't really that plausible. Those 10 billion people should really be on Winston. (This is even more egregious that Steel being empty.)

Another major problem with Entrope is how they are such an easy conquest. I mean they have a population that is, essentially, as big as either Confederation. Yet despite this, they sit there passively being conquered back and forth. What the hell is wrong with these people? Are they sheep without the wool?

Anyway, sorry for rambling.

 

[Antony]

Apart from Cunnonic, which as mentioned I landgrabbed, I also did Nonym, they also were not entirely happy about the Darrian takeover...

"...The situation began to change around 593 when the Sword Worlders invaded the Darrrian Confederations Entropic Worlds. When the Darrians retook these worlds in 788 Nonym was forced to accept a Darrian base. The locals largely resented this presence, and kept up a continual low level resistance to the bases presence.

With the outbreak of the Fifth Frontier war in 1107 several groups on Nonym saw an opportunity to have the Darrian base removed. There were a few violent outbursts. Following the end of the war the government of Nonym began to make more and more strident demands that the base be removed. A number of violent incidents raising the tension between the locals and Darrian forces further.

Darrian eventually responded by sending a squadron of their Star Trigger forces, threatening to destabilise the primary and effectively destroy the marginal world. The Darrian government has it that there was then a popular rebellion which overthrew the local government of Nonym, which although rated as an Impersonal Bureacracy by the Third Imperiam was a representative democracy, and were then invited in. Many of the locals are not accepting of this nor the formal annexation of the system by the Darrian Confederation, which followed.

As with several other recent additions to the Darrian Confederation, Darrian has been encouraging large scale migration to the world. The population having risen from around 620 million in 1117 to an estimated total of more than 900 million expected by 1201. Darrian has also invested heavily in the starport which is due to be rated class B by the same year.