Type 45 Destroyer
- Thread starter fredofmars
- Start date
Bob,
The Discovery Channel is worse than the Hitler... err... History Channel sometimes.
A few Liberty Ships did break in half. Out of the 2500+ built, less than 20 broke in two and the none of those crews were completely lost. It happened, but at no where near the level your TV claimed.
As AT pointed out, this more a result of the welding 'learning curve' than anything else.
Your ideas about 'rushed' construction and designs is spot on. The US had a similar merchant shipping construction program in WW1 that produced incrediably bad ships, many with wooden hulls that quickly rotted or otherwise failed.
Have fun,
Bill
Hans_vermeylen
SOC-7
One consideration to take into account while considering building time for ships/starships is their purpose...
I've read example of building time for bulk and tankers in this tread. However, without oversimplifying, a bulk or tanker is a quite simple ship: hold/tank, engine, accomodations, bridge with off-the-shelf components requiring only minimal integration...
A warship on the other hand is crammed with complex system: sensors, weapons, computers... While even the military tend to rely more and more on off-the-shelf stuff those days, integration is a major time consuming problem.
I've been remotely (I mean: I sail the ships, I don't build them) involved with the Capabilities Upgrade Program of Belgian Navy Mine Hunters, and the tuning of the (relatively simple compared to a fregate) combat system (integrating sonar, radar, electronic charts system, ROVs... in one single computer system) took over a year.
An other factor influencing building time is the place of the ship in its classe. The first one is a lot more complicated to build than the following ones. If I reckon correctly, GURPS Vehicle (a non Traveller book, but which served as background for GURPS Traveller starship design system) provided rules for building of prototypes/small series/large series... I'll try to dig them up.
I've read example of building time for bulk and tankers in this tread. However, without oversimplifying, a bulk or tanker is a quite simple ship: hold/tank, engine, accomodations, bridge with off-the-shelf components requiring only minimal integration...
A warship on the other hand is crammed with complex system: sensors, weapons, computers... While even the military tend to rely more and more on off-the-shelf stuff those days, integration is a major time consuming problem.
I've been remotely (I mean: I sail the ships, I don't build them) involved with the Capabilities Upgrade Program of Belgian Navy Mine Hunters, and the tuning of the (relatively simple compared to a fregate) combat system (integrating sonar, radar, electronic charts system, ROVs... in one single computer system) took over a year.
An other factor influencing building time is the place of the ship in its classe. The first one is a lot more complicated to build than the following ones. If I reckon correctly, GURPS Vehicle (a non Traveller book, but which served as background for GURPS Traveller starship design system) provided rules for building of prototypes/small series/large series... I'll try to dig them up.
Hans_vermeylen
SOC-7
'Daring' (First Type 45):
Maybe 3.3 years isn't that unrealistic, after all...
- First steel cut: March 2003
- Launched: February 2006
- Expected in service: 2009
Maybe 3.3 years isn't that unrealistic, after all...
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
OTOH it was a BELGIAN Minehunter. So a lot of time got wasted telling everyone that you are "Belgian, NOT French", having a little bit of civil war between Flames and Wallones and afterwards group-testings of the various beers and waffles.
Had that been a GERMAN Minehunter, it would have been ready in twice the time, worked perfectly on calm seas with a temperature between 16 and 16.5 degrees Celsius and would have embarked two counselors to talk the Engineers and Command Crew out of trying to shell the contractors. Who would have joined the crew faster than a certain GSD Lieutenant fell for McLean and his gang.
Had that been a GERMAN Minehunter, it would have been ready in twice the time, worked perfectly on calm seas with a temperature between 16 and 16.5 degrees Celsius and would have embarked two counselors to talk the Engineers and Command Crew out of trying to shell the contractors. Who would have joined the crew faster than a certain GSD Lieutenant fell for McLean and his gang.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Welding ships (at least warships) was IIRC a late 1920s concept. And even then they still used some riveting initially "just to be sure". I.e the amount of welding in the post WWI german light cruisers went from less than 30 percent to completely welded during the time, increasing with each ship group layed down.
Hans_vermeylen
SOC-7
Actually, the ROVs are german-build. And work perfectly well with less than 1 knot stream...
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Actually, the ROVs are german-build. And work perfectly well with less than 1 knot stream...
Let me guess, they where build by a company that starts with S or a daughter of it
Hans_vermeylen
SOC-7
Atlas Elektronik, don't know whose offspring they are...
G. Fieendish
SOC-12
Re:last post
According to their website, it's jointly owned by Thyssen & EADS.....
According to their website, it's jointly owned by Thyssen & EADS.....
G. Fieendish
SOC-12
According to the latest (British) National Audit Office (NAO) report, the Type 45 Destroyer is 2 Years late, & some £635 Million ($1.2 Billion) over budget.....
