University XP- what do you do with it?

[apoc527]

Ok, so for some strange reason, they decided to leave out an example of University in Prior History for the Rogue.

You get 3000XP for finishing a Bachelor's degree, but what can you use that on? It doesn't make sense that you'd be able to take levels in any class besides Academic for that term (meaning 2 whole levels in Aca for every character that attends University), but I'm not sure, since there aren't any examples of it.

If I was making a Merchant character (first level Mch) and I wanted to go to University, would I be able to level up in Merchant twice with that 3000XP while in school or not? Could I randomly pick any other core class to multi-class into while in school? Please help!

 

[R_Kane]

Ok, so for some strange reason, they decided to leave out an example of University in Prior History for the Rogue.

You get 3000XP for finishing a Bachelor's degree, but what can you use that on? It doesn't make sense that you'd be able to take levels in any class besides Academic for that term (meaning 2 whole levels in Aca for every character that attends University), but I'm not sure, since there aren't any examples of it.

If I was making a Merchant character (first level Mch) and I wanted to go to University, would I be able to level up in Merchant twice with that 3000XP while in school or not? Could I randomly pick any other core class to multi-class into while in school? Please help!


Yes. Any time you gain enough XP for another character level you can take that level in any class you qualify for (any time - during school, during any prior history term).

There area few restrictions: the 1st level of Belter or Barbarian must be your starting character's very first class; you can only take Service Class levels while pursuing a Service Prior History path (but you CAN still take levels of classes other than the Service class)

There are numerous threads that discuss this in length...if I recall correctly they are mostly in the T20 forums.

 

[R_Kane]

oh BTW...I agree, if there was only room enough for 1 character example; it would've been nice if it had encompassed University, Service Prior History term(s), and Non-Service PH term(s)

That would have gone a long way to clarify the intent of the character generation guidelines.

 

[DrSkull]

You can spend University experience points in any class that you are elligible for, but that is much more narrow than you might think.

For example, a first level Traveller goes to university. He could spend his experience in the Traveller class, or could multiclass as
1) an Academic (if he has Edu 14+ and Int 12+),
2) a Noble (if he has Social Standing of 16+) or 3)a Professional (if he has rank 4+ in Craft, Profession, Technical, Pilot, Navigation or Driving skills)
4) Rogue (if he has Connections/Underworld Feat)

Scout, Army, Navy, and Marines are exluded because you need to be serving in one of those careers to take levels in that class.

Belters, Barbarians are excluded because you cannot multiclass into these classes.

Mercenary is excluded because you need 1 term in Army/Navy/Marines/Scouts before you can multiclass into such a class.

Merchant is excluded because you must be in Prior History to take a level, or be serving as a ship's crewman, which he isn't because he's at school.

So if the guy is has Int 11, Soc 12, does not take any of the "Professional" entry class skills, and doesn't take Connections/Underworld, he will be forced to take all of his University EXP in the Traveller class.

 

[graden1]

Originally posted by DrSkull:


Scout, Army, Navy, and Marines are exluded because you need to be serving in one of those careers to take levels in that class.

Does that include OTC characters? If you're studying at the university to be a naval officer, and successfully complete OTC, can you use the XP's for navy class levels?

This came up during character generation, and I thought it made sense to allow it, but I wasn't sure.

DG

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by DrSkull:
You can spend University experience points in any class that you are elligible for, but that is much more narrow than you might think.

For example, a first level Traveller goes to university. He could spend his experience in the Traveller class, or could multiclass as
1) an Academic (if he has Edu 14+ and Int 12+), [...]

So if the guy is has Int 11, Soc 12, does not take any of the "Professional" entry class skills, and doesn't take Connections/Underworld, he will be forced to take all of his University EXP in the Traveller class.

I pondered the same problem and came to the conclusion that if he gets his Bachelor degree, he can use the points on Academic levels even though he doesn't get the degree until the end of the period where he earns the points. It's a bit bass-awkward,I know, but it seems very odd to me that one can earn a Bachelor degree, yet not be allowed to become an Academic in so doing.

I didn't consider what I'd do if a character goes to the university and fails to graduate. I don't have my T20 book here. Does he get any XPs at all in that case? If he doesn't, there's no problem. If he does, I think I'd allow him to spend them on Academic levels. I just wouldn't allow him to spend non-university earned XPs on Academic levels until he had a Bachelor degree (or, of course, the required Int and Edu).

YMMV.

Hans

 

[themink]

There is no requirement on academic to have a degree - Academic is just someone who has/is studying

 

[DrSkull]

There is a requirement that you have a Bachelor's degree to multi-class into Academic or an Edu 14+ and Int 12+. So if you have an Int 11 character, he cannot multiclass into Academic, unless he has a Bachelor's.

I'd agree with those who say that it makes sense to allow OTC characters to take levels in their particular service, but the rules don't say that.

It does make some sense to allow university experience to be spent on Academic levels, if a Bachelor's degree is actually achieved. On the other hand, the vast majority of college students are in no wise really "Academics" most are more like Professionals in training.

 

[themink]

<Pulls soap box out from behind back and brushes the top clean - ignire the following rant - sensible comment at the bottom>

People studying at universities are academics (99% plus).

people studying at TAFEs/TECHs are professionals (99%).

Because of the added kudos involved with having a degree rather than a certificate, there have been two effects in the last 20/30 years:-
i) Institutes get more funding if they are a Uni rather than a TAFE so they have been re-classifying themselves.
ii) Many professional groups have raised the "bar" so that now a degree is required rather than technical qualifications.

The end result is that many Technical institutes who would have given a 2/3 year technical course now give a very similair course and call it a degree!

So people are being produced with degrees who have no idea about research, who don't have a rounded education, who aren't academic.

I'm not saying that something like Electrical engineering isn't a complex and technical field, purely that a degree is a poor title for the qualification that someone should get who has studied it to go out and work for a living.

Summary - many things that people call Universities are actually TECHs or TAFEs.

<climbs down from soap box>

But that isn't relevant at the moment. There is no reason why someone who does a degree in Trav wouldn't put the XP to professional. Yes, if they fail, they wouldn't be able to become an academic later unless they were significantly more educated than average. That strikes me as perfectly reasonable. If they pass the degree, then they probably wouldn't stay in the system, but would have absorbed enough to be a little academic later.

 

[chron187]

I'd agree with those who say that it makes sense to allow OTC characters to take levels in their particular service, but the rules don't say that.

As would I however since when you get your bachelors you get all of that exp in 1 lump sum you can start you service that very next day (if not that day in fact) so I would say you can start in a service class if you take OTC though I beggeth Hunter to put that into errata even though he hates errata I would love a official ruling on the subject

Edit on a further note couldnt you start as a Navy man then go to university they do believe in cross training right and I do believe that you can join a university anytime (dont have the book in front of me though and may be twisting the arm of the rules just a tad )and at least on TV their is a example of the Military sending somebody to a University ever see the show J.A.G ?

 

[xloop]

I would recommend that the university be treated just like a seperate class. Create a list of class skills and class feats. In my campaign I have already written up the stuff for it. If someone wants to go to school tey need to learn sore type of technical or similar skill. You can't learn to be a sniper in the university. that being said I do allow 1/4 of all skill points received while in the university to be used for any skill the player wants. Such skills are treated as cross class skills. It has worked out well in my system.

I would much rather see it used in some maner like that then trying to use the skill points for a class that you are 4 terms away from. That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Simon Jester]

Originally posted by DrSkull:
You can spend University experience points in any class that you are elligible for, but that is much more narrow than you might think.

For example, a first level Traveller goes to university. He could spend his experience in the Traveller class, or could multiclass as
1) an Academic (if he has Edu 14+ and Int 12+),
2) a Noble (if he has Social Standing of 16+) or
3)a Professional (if he has rank 4+ in Craft, Profession, Technical, Pilot, Navigation or Driving skills)
4) Rogue (if he has Connections/Underworld Feat)

Scout, Army, Navy, and Marines are exluded because you need to be serving in one of those careers to take levels in that class.

I would allow these because, in the reallife OTC, prospective officers undertake one or two "summer duty sessions" wherein they serve as a cadet or midshipman at a regular military base or vessel. This period usually lasts about two to three months and takes place during the Junior and Senior Year summer intermissions. The first session has a very general orientation with the second being a little more specific as the service determines the OTC member's abilities.

Belters, Barbarians are excluded because you cannot multiclass into these classes.

Mercenary is excluded because you need 1 term in Army/Navy/Marines/Scouts before you can multiclass into such a class.

Merchant is excluded because you must be in Prior History to take a level, or be serving as a ship's crewman, which he isn't because he's at school.

I would allow this for much the same reason as I would allow the Service Classes to be accessed. The Merchant Lines would undoubtedly have scholarships for prospective merchant officers, with the understanding that said recipient serve a period of time in the line's service afterward. Summer duty sessions similar to those OTC personnel have to serve would not be unwarranted.

So if the guy is has Int 11, Soc 12, does not take any of the "Professional" entry class skills, and doesn't take Connections/Underworld, he will be forced to take all of his University EXP in the Traveller class.

I disagree, as noted intermittently above. I would not, however, allow these characters learning skills in various classes to gain any of the feats provided by these classes. Two or three months is simply too short a time to spend learning these intensive abilities in addition to the skills otherwise gained. Likewise, gaining Stamina points, Base Attack Bonuses and Save bonuses would have to wait until actual service in these classes was accomplished normally. I might also allow the previous University Term to count toward Mustering Out rolls, but I'm going to have to seriously consider the ramifications of doing so.

Simon Jester

 

[apoc527]

Thanks Dr.Skull and everyone for the answers. That makes it much clearer. I was trying to make a Merchant, and I know you have to serve at least one Prior History term as a Merchant, but it says you can defer that for University. The only problem was that I wasn't sure I could take levels in anything at all, since you can't take levels as a Merchant unless you actually are using the PH or working on a ship. Thanks!

 

[DrSkull]

Simon Jester,
I may sympathize and agree with some of your preferences, but I was explaining what the rules actually say. Real-life don't enter into it. The examples I gave are parsed out of the actual rulebook, which I believe was the orginal thrust of the question