University

[yook]

Greetings, all.

Just got the T20 PDFs yesterday, and I've been meandering through character generation, trying to get a handle on it. One thing I'm a bit confused about is the University track. I have a couple of questions.

- Is each stint at a school (BA for 3-4 yrs, MA for 2 yrs, PhD for 2 yrs) considered a Term, or does the "count" on terms start once you graduate? Corollary to that is, if you go for a BA after your second Employment/Service term, and graduate on time, is your next Employment/Service term your 3rd or 4th?

- Am I correct in believing that the rewards for following the University track are simply XP, EDU bonuses, and the right to call oneself a BA of X, or a PhD of Y? Is there more to it, pertaining perhaps to the post Prior History life of the PC in the wider world?

I'm betting there's either something I'm missing in the text, or I'm just over-complicating things. Hopefully, you folks will be able to clue me in.

Thanks for your time,

-Yook

 

[BetterThanLife]

Greetings, all.

Just got the T20 PDFs yesterday, and I've been meandering through character generation, trying to get a handle on it. One thing I'm a bit confused about is the University track. I have a couple of questions.

- Is each stint at a school (BA for 3-4 yrs, MA for 2 yrs, PhD for 2 yrs) considered a Term, or does the "count" on terms start once you graduate? Corollary to that is, if you go for a BA after your second Employment/Service term, and graduate on time, is your next Employment/Service term your 3rd or 4th?

- Am I correct in believing that the rewards for following the University track are simply XP, EDU bonuses, and the right to call oneself a BA of X, or a PhD of Y? Is there more to it, pertaining perhaps to the post Prior History life of the PC in the wider world?

I'm betting there's either something I'm missing in the text, or I'm just over-complicating things. Hopefully, you folks will be able to clue me in.

Thanks for your time,

-Yook

A term at University, is indeed a term and counts towards your total number of allowable terms. You are correct that the benefit is xp and edu bonuses and the title. You don't appear to be missing anything. However there has been discussion about changing the number of terms to the number of years served for purposes of maximum amount of time allowed in Prior History. (Due to short terms being possible.)

There is one other thing to point out. There is no restriction as to which class you apply that XP gained while at the University provided that you meet the restrictions for joining/taking levels in that class. (In fact there is no restriction on where you apply any xp gained with the exception of allowable classes.) I do recommend that players, while in Prior History be restricted to a minimum of one level in three be applied to the class for which the prior history term is named. Otherwise why join the Navy, if all you are going to do is take Rogue Levels.

 

[far-trader]

...why join the Navy, if all you are going to do is take Rogue Levels.

...Bond, James Bond :file_22:

 

[BetterThanLife]

...Bond, James Bond :file_22:

But Bond never served in the Navy. In fact in none of Ian Fleming's books did Bond ever even wear a uniform.

 

[far-trader]

But Bond never served in the Navy. In fact in none of Ian Fleming's books did Bond ever even wear a uniform.

Served he did, as did Fleming, in the RNVR (Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve) and promoted to Commander, as in the oft heard "Commander Bond" in the movies. Read "You Only Live Twice" again

 

[Border Reiver]

I'll be Mr Picky Pick here.

At the end of You Only Live Twice is an obituary for Bond (presumed dead by the rest of the world) which details his service in the Royal Navy. Here's an excerpt;

By now it was 1941 and, by claiming an age of nineteen and with the help of an old Vickers colleague of his father, he entered a branch of what was subsequently to become the Ministry of Defence. To serve the confidential nature of his duties, he was accorded the rank of lieutenant in the Special Branch of the R.N.V.R., and it is a measure of the satisfaction his services gave to his superiors that he ended the war with the rank of Commander.

 

[Rover]

A term at University, is indeed a term and counts towards your total number of allowable terms. You are correct that the benefit is xp and edu bonuses and the title. You don't appear to be missing anything. However there has been discussion about changing the number of terms to the number of years served for purposes of maximum amount of time allowed in Prior History. (Due to short terms being possible.)

There is one other thing to point out. There is no restriction as to which class you apply that XP gained while at the University provided that you meet the restrictions for joining/taking levels in that class. (In fact there is no restriction on where you apply any xp gained with the exception of allowable classes.) I do recommend that players, while in Prior History be restricted to a minimum of one level in three be applied to the class for which the prior history term is named. Otherwise why join the Navy, if all you are going to do is take Rogue Levels.

cool info on Bond, but to drag things back OT...

I do not think you can apply the XP in university to a service class. Army, navy, marine, Scout. You have to be actively serving in that service to take levels.

As to Taking Levels in Rouge while in the Navy. That is one of the great features of T20. The multiclassing. If your character concept is a theiving supply officer who runs a blackmarket out of quartermaster's office. That would be perfect.

 

[BetterThanLife]

cool info on Bond, but to drag things back OT...

I do not think you can apply the XP in university to a service class. Army, navy, marine, Scout. You have to be actively serving in that service to take levels.

As to Taking Levels in Rouge while in the Navy. That is one of the great features of T20. The multiclassing. If your character concept is a theiving supply officer who runs a blackmarket out of quartermaster's office. That would be perfect.

Actually it says that you can only multi-class into a service class if you are actively serving. There is no prohibition from taking a Service class as your first class.

I never said that you couldn't take Rogue levels while serving in the Navy, just that there should be some requirement to actually take some Navy levels. Even that crooked quartermaster is going to have some Naval experience. (Even if it is just to duck the Master at Arms when his floating crap game gets raided. )

 

[far-trader]

To add to the XP spent on a service class while in University I agree it's probably not strictly rules legal and in most cases isn't appropriate. I make one exception, if the University term includes attending a service academy then the player may take one level of the appropriate service class.

 

[BetterThanLife]

To add to the XP spent on a service class while in University I agree it's probably not strictly rules legal and in most cases isn't appropriate. I make one exception, if the University term includes attending a service academy then the player may take one level of the appropriate service class.

And OTC classes? (The THB has no service academy.) When I was at Syracuse University, anyone could take ROTC classes whether they were enrolled in the program or not. In the US National Guard, you can go to college full time, and do one weekend a month, two weeks in the summer, and depending on the state, make a pretty penny doing it. Once you get out of School you go active duty and begin your career. Either of those cases would justify taking service levels while attending University full time. Again though the Service class would have to be your first class to apply those levels to a service class.

 

[far-trader]

And OTC classes? (The THB has no service academy.)

Yep, that's what I meant, OTC Must have muddled it up in my head with a previous edition's academy rules.

 

[yook]

Thanks one and all for the quick replies, and even for the Bond info. This bit here got my attention:

There is one other thing to point out. There is no restriction as to which class you apply that XP gained while at the University provided that you meet the restrictions for joining/taking levels in that class. (In fact there is no restriction on where you apply any xp gained with the exception of allowable classes.) I do recommend that players, while in Prior History be restricted to a minimum of one level in three be applied to the class for which the prior history term is named. Otherwise why join the Navy, if all you are going to do is take Rogue Levels.

It didn't even occur to me to do that. Hah! Things worked out well for my "Skills and Brains" PC idea, I did three Uni. Terms to get a Doctorate, plus two Academic Terms and put all the XP into the Academic class, then two terms as a Professional and used that XP to multi-class into the Professional class. I believe she turned out all right.

However, my first PC had some trouble with the dice during Prior History, and had one term each in the Army, as a Merc, and as a Scout due to poor re-enlistment rolls. I thought that meant I had to switch classes, as well. But now I see that I only needed to change from the Army class due to the "no more XP in the class once you're out of the Service" rule.

With this in mind, I'll work on my next PC. I like the recommendation you give above, as well.

Again, thanks one and all.

-Yook

P.S. I should note that my first PC ended up being pretty interesting. A short stint in his local Army, a term as a Merc out and about, which leads to a love for travelling and his Scout tenure, which gets him into the idea of ship-life and, with his Scoutship stowed away for a bit, his enlistment in the Navy and a rise to Admiral. Crazy! His next level was planned to be as a Traveller, and he'd probably make the perfect Captain or First-Mate for any sort of combat or trade ship. It was fun (if a bit frustrating) to make him, and the narrative I came up with to account for all his various bad dice rolls (and my mistaken assumptions) is pretty cool. I say thee yay!

 

[BetterThanLife]

Thanks one and all for the quick replies, and even for the Bond info. This bit here got my attention:



It didn't even occur to me to do that. Hah! Things worked out well for my "Skills and Brains" PC idea, I did three Uni. Terms to get a Doctorate, plus two Academic Terms and put all the XP into the Academic class, then two terms as a Professional and used that XP to multi-class into the Professional class. I believe she turned out all right.

Though unlikely to be able to hit the broad side of a drednaught at point blank range with a pistol.

However, my first PC had some trouble with the dice during Prior History, and had one term each in the Army, as a Merc, and as a Scout due to poor re-enlistment rolls. I thought that meant I had to switch classes, as well. But now I see that I only needed to change from the Army class due to the "no more XP in the class once you're out of the Service" rule.

With this in mind, I'll work on my next PC. I like the recommendation you give above, as well.

Again, thanks one and all.

-Yook

Four more recommendations.
1, For choosing attributes the two most important, regardless of class are Intelligence and Dexterity (In that order.). The balance of attribute distribution are class dependent.
2. Specialize. Do not scatter your skills or classes all over the map keep them concentrated. (You don't really want more than two complimentary classes and Merchant/Rogue is not a good combination.)
3. At around 5 terms you will hit the point of diminishing returns, in terms of xp vs. levels. When you do it is time to muster out.
4. Timing for multi-classing is critical. If your last two classes are not one in each then you might as well have not taken the one you didn't advance in the last two-three level raises.

 

[far-trader]

Excellent yook! Thanks for sharing and you're welcome to our banter sprinkled with help Oh, and a briefly belated, officially unofficial...

Welcome aboard!

 

[Rover]

Actually it says that you can only multi-class into a service class if you are actively serving. There is no prohibition from taking a Service class as your first class.

I never said that you couldn't take Rogue levels while serving in the Navy, just that there should be some requirement to actually take some Navy levels. Even that crooked quartermaster is going to have some Naval experience. (Even if it is just to duck the Master at Arms when his floating crap game gets raided. )

I just re-read what you originally wrote. I missed that 1 in 3 the first time around.

My guess is we probably run our char gen in a similar fasion. I require players to take 1 level in thier active service and then mulitclass as they wish provided they have a justification. Rather than just rely on char gen straight from the book, I give them pretty much a free reign but they have to have a convincing back story. Thier history before was a priority. The players responed really well. They got the character they wanted. and I got players that were really engaged with thier characters.

I didn't get a Barbarian with levels in Academic, but if they had good reasoning...

R

 

[yook]

Though unlikely to be able to hit the broad side of a drednaught at point blank range with a pistol.

Quite true, but she has ridiculous Grav vessel piloting skills (need someone to pull a crazy backwards inverted roll stop-on-a-dime at the window as the group jumps out in the nick of time? Done.), high Decipher Script and Use Alien Devices, some TK (which is another question, see below), and enough knowledge and technical acumen to repair any computer, Grav system or random set of electronics she encounters. Plus, she can call in various academic contacts for sensitive Nerd Information. Just as long as the group keeps her breathing, of course. (Oh, and she can do a passable job at piloting a Ship's Boat, as well.)

4. Timing for multi-classing is critical. If your last two classes are not one in each then you might as well have not taken the one you didn't advance in the last two-three level raises.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean here. Could you explain in more detail? Sorry if I'm being a bit dense.

Now, my question about Psionics is thus: once you have access to a Sphere (or two+), you need a Skill to use a particular power in the Sphere (though for TK and Teleportation, that's a singular skill). These Skills are Cross-Class, yes? Is it possible to use a Feat to make it a Class skill? Or will these skills always advance at the half-rate of a Cross-Class skill?

Excellent yook! Thanks for sharing and you're welcome to our banter sprinkled with help Oh, and a briefly belated, officially unofficial...

Welcome aboard!

Thanks! I love finding neat new communities of gamers and geeks (like me!) to geek around with. Woot!

-Yook

 

[BetterThanLife]

Quite true, but she has ridiculous Grav vessel piloting skills (need someone to pull a crazy backwards inverted roll stop-on-a-dime at the window as the group jumps out in the nick of time? Done.), high Decipher Script and Use Alien Devices, some TK (which is another question, see below), and enough knowledge and technical acumen to repair any computer, Grav system or random set of electronics she encounters. Plus, she can call in various academic contacts for sensitive Nerd Information. Just as long as the group keeps her breathing, of course. (Oh, and she can do a passable job at piloting a Ship's Boat, as well.)

Now for ridiculous grav piloting skills I have a Scout/Ace Pilot...

4. Timing for multi-classing is critical. If your last two classes are not one in each then you might as well have not taken the one you didn't advance in the last two-three level raises.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean here. Could you explain in more detail? Sorry if I'm being a bit dense.

Certainly. From a practical standpoint within the game, you should specialize your skills. Because of the high DC required for most tasks, most of the skills you take and all the skills you intend to use on a regular basis should be maxed. If you don't carefully time your multi-classing with your exit then the reason you took the second class (or first class) is pretty much useless as one of the classes won't have skill levels approaching what you actually wanted to do with the character when you conceptualized it in the first place. For example the simple action of docking that ship's boat (not even under fire) requires a score of 20+. For a 50-50 chance of success (or for Take 10 to work) you need a attribute mod and a skill combination of 10. there are quite a few things you might want to do while piloting (or other skills) where you need a 30+.

Now, my question about Psionics is thus: once you have access to a Sphere (or two+), you need a Skill to use a particular power in the Sphere (though for TK and Teleportation, that's a singular skill). These Skills are Cross-Class, yes? Is it possible to use a Feat to make it a Class skill? Or will these skills always advance at the half-rate of a Cross-Class skill?

In TA-5, Objects of the Mind, there is a Psionicist Class where it isn't Cross-Class, otherwise it will always be Cross Class. Also bear in mind the limit on max skill levels for Cross class skills.

Thanks! I love finding neat new communities of gamers and geeks (like me!) to geek around with. Woot!

No problem. Some of us enjoy doing this.

 

[yook]

Hmm. Okay, I see what you're saying, and I also see that what I'm running up against is my usual "making PCs for a new system in which I don't really grok the important rules yet", such as the DCs regularly being rather high. I hadn't noticed that.

More reading for me!

-Yook

 

[BetterThanLife]

Hmm. Okay, I see what you're saying, and I also see that what I'm running up against is my usual "making PCs for a new system in which I don't really grok the important rules yet", such as the DCs regularly being rather high. I hadn't noticed that.

More reading for me!

-Yook

No problem. this is T20, even though it is based on the D20 rules it is its own game. You can scatter your skills about, but if you do follow my advice and specialize, you will actually wind up with a character that basically works the same way as a CT character with the same number of terms does.

 

[BetterThanLife]

BTW to truly be considered ridiculous skill level consider my Scout/Ace Pilot. She is a Vargr with a Dex of 20. (+5 for Pilot), 12 ranks in Pilot skill, (9th Level), Skill Focus (Pilot) (+2 Pilot), PMOS Pilot (Can always take 10 for Pilot tests.) Vessel Specialization (Scout Ship) Personal Vessel (Particular Scout Ship.) (+4 with that scout ship.) So when flying a Grav Vehicle +19 to the roll, and can always decide to simply declare a 29. In a Scout Ship, that is +21 and in her Scout Ship, +23. And she is only going to get better. But she doesn't have lots of skills, just a handful, almost all of them in the 9+ range.