Updated 100-ton Scout/Courier Deckplan
- Thread starter hunter
- Start date
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soloprobe:
I see one glaring design flaw....
Four Staterooms, ONE FRESHER!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pretty standard for Traveller ships under 300 Td...
Especially since in theory no more than 8 people will be using it... In practice, 16 mght be needing it.
But the air-raft having a "Drop Door" really doesn't sound like good design to me... Perhaps the Cargo Lock SHOULD BE the Air Raft bay... <G>
Somewhere in Ley Sector...
Joe, we're gonna need to have you move the raft so we can load that cargo module....
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
I see one glaring design flaw....
Four Staterooms, ONE FRESHER!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pretty standard for Traveller ships under 300 Td...
Especially since in theory no more than 8 people will be using it... In practice, 16 mght be needing it.
But the air-raft having a "Drop Door" really doesn't sound like good design to me... Perhaps the Cargo Lock SHOULD BE the Air Raft bay... <G>
Somewhere in Ley Sector...
Joe, we're gonna need to have you move the raft so we can load that cargo module....
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
But the air-raft having a "Drop Door" really doesn't sound like good design to me... Perhaps the Cargo Lock SHOULD BE the Air Raft bay...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How is a drop door any different from using a cargo ramp? This is a vehicle that can fly and hover. So you open the door underneath it and fly it out. Same to get it back in. Works well on the ground or in orbit.
Hunter
But the air-raft having a "Drop Door" really doesn't sound like good design to me... Perhaps the Cargo Lock SHOULD BE the Air Raft bay...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How is a drop door any different from using a cargo ramp? This is a vehicle that can fly and hover. So you open the door underneath it and fly it out. Same to get it back in. Works well on the ground or in orbit.
Hunter
bryan gibson
Absent Friend
regarding design "flaws" and features, first we must follow the principle that virtually EVERBODY would design things differently so I cannot address how others would prioritize a design. However, I can adress the theory that I followed, thus-
1 fresher= adequate . This is, after all, a military ship, and although can manage more it typically is crewed by four to six (pilot, engineer, sensor specialist and perhaps a couple of mission specialists- we may assume scouts will go outside from time to time.) and for no more than that 1 fresher is sufficient. Austerity is the order of the day.
Bunks, ditto. it aint a liner, and nightmares of being trapped in a sinking u-boat is appropriate. ya want luxury, go Star Trek and the Enterprise, but in the Imperium we don't have to build those those hallways so we can dolly cameras.
air raft considerations are alway a compromise issue. Here we have a droppable access used in space as a rule; or when landed you can simply drive the thing out the cargo doors. If shuffling the cargo is a pain in the ass, well, too bad. Military design dosn't concern itself with such considerations for the simple reason that militarily speaking the ship is a scout and any design is all about mission tasking- it is a scout , and not a cargo ship. the cargo option is there due to limited mission requirements but you can bet that the Imperium isn't sweating this detail. This is like arguing that PT boats haven't the cargo capacity of a suit case when one must remember that the point is sinking other ships, not hauling stuff around.
The cargo doors are just as the other fellow observed, slab doors that retract and close like a big garage door... slab doors provide more structural integrity and seal more securely than the door in the wall thing. Again, the assumption is generally that it is used planetside, but hey, lets not be dopes here- any bosun not recovering atmoshere before opening that damn door won't keep chevrons long. If we can pump air in, you can bet a buck to a Ley Kroner that we can suck it out!
1 fresher= adequate . This is, after all, a military ship, and although can manage more it typically is crewed by four to six (pilot, engineer, sensor specialist and perhaps a couple of mission specialists- we may assume scouts will go outside from time to time.) and for no more than that 1 fresher is sufficient. Austerity is the order of the day.
Bunks, ditto. it aint a liner, and nightmares of being trapped in a sinking u-boat is appropriate. ya want luxury, go Star Trek and the Enterprise, but in the Imperium we don't have to build those those hallways so we can dolly cameras.
air raft considerations are alway a compromise issue. Here we have a droppable access used in space as a rule; or when landed you can simply drive the thing out the cargo doors. If shuffling the cargo is a pain in the ass, well, too bad. Military design dosn't concern itself with such considerations for the simple reason that militarily speaking the ship is a scout and any design is all about mission tasking- it is a scout , and not a cargo ship. the cargo option is there due to limited mission requirements but you can bet that the Imperium isn't sweating this detail. This is like arguing that PT boats haven't the cargo capacity of a suit case when one must remember that the point is sinking other ships, not hauling stuff around.
The cargo doors are just as the other fellow observed, slab doors that retract and close like a big garage door... slab doors provide more structural integrity and seal more securely than the door in the wall thing. Again, the assumption is generally that it is used planetside, but hey, lets not be dopes here- any bosun not recovering atmoshere before opening that damn door won't keep chevrons long. If we can pump air in, you can bet a buck to a Ley Kroner that we can suck it out!
Maybe the hatch in the rear centre of the cargo bay is the turret entrance (based on the craft having similiar lines as the type S)
Could create problems. "Okay, move the box of Reginan Wine, now the Efate strudle biscuits. Good, good, now go man the turret"
Suggestion: put the turret hatch in the hallway with the 3 staterooms
Overall B+
(I remember one classic Traveller starship that had the turret entrance through someone's stateroom. "Sorry to disturb you Eneri, just passin' through to fire the port laser!")
Could create problems. "Okay, move the box of Reginan Wine, now the Efate strudle biscuits. Good, good, now go man the turret"
Suggestion: put the turret hatch in the hallway with the 3 staterooms
Overall B+
(I remember one classic Traveller starship that had the turret entrance through someone's stateroom. "Sorry to disturb you Eneri, just passin' through to fire the port laser!")
ranger2261
SOC-12
I LOVE THE NEW DESIGN, I LIKE SEEING A NEW VERSION.
I THINK IT IS REMINECENT OF THE STOMPED SCOUT FROM TRAVELLER.
THE DECKPLANS ARE NOT QUITE THE SAME AS THE PROFILE PLAN.
MAYBE YOU COULD GET A CUTAWAY PROFILE PLAN TO SHOW WHERE THE LANDING GEAR AN FUEL SPACES ARE?
B+ VERY COOL
I THINK IT IS REMINECENT OF THE STOMPED SCOUT FROM TRAVELLER.
THE DECKPLANS ARE NOT QUITE THE SAME AS THE PROFILE PLAN.
MAYBE YOU COULD GET A CUTAWAY PROFILE PLAN TO SHOW WHERE THE LANDING GEAR AN FUEL SPACES ARE?
B+ VERY COOL
DaveShayne
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mused:
(I remember one classic Traveller starship that had the turret entrance through someone's stateroom. "Sorry to disturb you Eneri, just passin' through to fire the port laser!")<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course it would make absolutely no sense what-so-ever for that stateroom to house the gunner.
------------------
I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.
David Shayne
[This message has been edited by DaveShayne (edited 03 February 2002).]
(I remember one classic Traveller starship that had the turret entrance through someone's stateroom. "Sorry to disturb you Eneri, just passin' through to fire the port laser!")<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course it would make absolutely no sense what-so-ever for that stateroom to house the gunner.
------------------
I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.
David Shayne
[This message has been edited by DaveShayne (edited 03 February 2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
How is a drop door any different from using a cargo ramp? This is a vehicle that can fly and hover. So you open the door underneath it and fly it out. Same to get it back in. Works well on the ground or in orbit.
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
in orbit, yeah, it makes little difference (some, but little, mostly issues for tired &/or injured pilots).
on the ground, not quite, plus you forgot the third environ, an important one: in air.
Drop door requires that the doors have full clearance from the ground, not just for the doors, but also for the loaded height of the vehicle. (Which, for examble, limited the size of nuclear bombs... ground clearance to airframe set the upper bound of bomb size, both conventional and special, for all bombers.) Additionally, it requires manuvering while looking up; not a real major issue for the TL, but one of nuisance factor for inexperienced and/or tired pilots. Also, in case the air-raft is replaced with non-gravitic vehicles, this requires some other means of accomodation. And, in common landing situations, this will be putting the full weight of the inactive air-raft against doors rather than bulkheads directly. One advantage: hoists -cieling mounted cable hoists are good.
A side door has the advantage of ground clearance not being an issue, so long as it remains a non-negative number. (Negative ground clearance is a major possibility, though, due to potential crashes...) It avoids almost entirely the issues of replacement vehicles, or use as cargo space. Disadvantage: hoists now need a swing arm.
A rear door has tha added advantages over side doors: that in most negative ground clearance situations, the rear door remains accessible, due to nose-in-dirt/tail in air; that pilots can dock in atmospheric flight by straight nose-in (the turbulence could easily be computer compensated), which is easiest for H Sapiens in typical vehicular situations (We're designed to look forward, not up, and sideways requires adjustments), and even better for tired pilots.
Note also: a fore door (ala the Type A2 in Supp 7): is the worst location. In most crashes, it WILL be blocked, it's practically unuseable in atmosphereic flight, any in-flight use requires manuvering to the vehicles rear, through extreme bow-shock turbulence, and ram-air in flight nearly prevents exiting.
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
How is a drop door any different from using a cargo ramp? This is a vehicle that can fly and hover. So you open the door underneath it and fly it out. Same to get it back in. Works well on the ground or in orbit.
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
in orbit, yeah, it makes little difference (some, but little, mostly issues for tired &/or injured pilots).
on the ground, not quite, plus you forgot the third environ, an important one: in air.
Drop door requires that the doors have full clearance from the ground, not just for the doors, but also for the loaded height of the vehicle. (Which, for examble, limited the size of nuclear bombs... ground clearance to airframe set the upper bound of bomb size, both conventional and special, for all bombers.) Additionally, it requires manuvering while looking up; not a real major issue for the TL, but one of nuisance factor for inexperienced and/or tired pilots. Also, in case the air-raft is replaced with non-gravitic vehicles, this requires some other means of accomodation. And, in common landing situations, this will be putting the full weight of the inactive air-raft against doors rather than bulkheads directly. One advantage: hoists -cieling mounted cable hoists are good.
A side door has the advantage of ground clearance not being an issue, so long as it remains a non-negative number. (Negative ground clearance is a major possibility, though, due to potential crashes...) It avoids almost entirely the issues of replacement vehicles, or use as cargo space. Disadvantage: hoists now need a swing arm.
A rear door has tha added advantages over side doors: that in most negative ground clearance situations, the rear door remains accessible, due to nose-in-dirt/tail in air; that pilots can dock in atmospheric flight by straight nose-in (the turbulence could easily be computer compensated), which is easiest for H Sapiens in typical vehicular situations (We're designed to look forward, not up, and sideways requires adjustments), and even better for tired pilots.
Note also: a fore door (ala the Type A2 in Supp 7): is the worst location. In most crashes, it WILL be blocked, it's practically unuseable in atmosphereic flight, any in-flight use requires manuvering to the vehicles rear, through extreme bow-shock turbulence, and ram-air in flight nearly prevents exiting.
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Cleon the Mad
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soloprobe:
I see one glaring design flaw....
Four Staterooms, ONE FRESHER!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well...I've seen plenty of college dorms where multiple rooms had to share one restroom, my last ex-girlfriend's dorm it was two rooms to one bathroom, but each room held two people, so it was four people to one bathroom.
(Then again, her doom floor wasn't literally isolated a week at a time due to being in jump space, but I digress)
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It is not I who am crazy, it's I who am mad!
I see one glaring design flaw....
Four Staterooms, ONE FRESHER!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well...I've seen plenty of college dorms where multiple rooms had to share one restroom, my last ex-girlfriend's dorm it was two rooms to one bathroom, but each room held two people, so it was four people to one bathroom.
(Then again, her doom floor wasn't literally isolated a week at a time due to being in jump space, but I digress)
------------------
It is not I who am crazy, it's I who am mad!
DaveShayne
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mused:
IIRC it was a passenger stateroom<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh.
That is whack.
------------------
I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.
David Shayne
IIRC it was a passenger stateroom<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh.
That is whack.
------------------
I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.
David Shayne
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mused:
IIRC it was a passenger stateroom<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who cares? It ain't 1942 anymore, and the computer has to be in the loop for targeting (to even see a 200 ton target at 10,000 km needs a 500x scope). The turret needs not be manned but can be operated from any workstation. The hatch is there for maintainence and reloading.
George Lucas may have been inspired by 633 Squadron and Twelve O'Clock High, but by 1945 even bombers like the A26 and B29 used remote controlled turrets.
IIRC it was a passenger stateroom<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who cares? It ain't 1942 anymore, and the computer has to be in the loop for targeting (to even see a 200 ton target at 10,000 km needs a 500x scope). The turret needs not be manned but can be operated from any workstation. The hatch is there for maintainence and reloading.
George Lucas may have been inspired by 633 Squadron and Twelve O'Clock High, but by 1945 even bombers like the A26 and B29 used remote controlled turrets.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
Here is the updated version of the scout deck plans.
Scout/Courier Deck Plans
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi
I really like the design of the new Scout -- it almost looks like something we could design with today's technology (except for maybe the jump drive). Just one quick question, though: where is the main airlock located? Aft between the engines always seemed a poor place, not to mention hot, to put the main airlock. It looks like there's room on the starboard side by the air raft bay where maybe you could put one in.
Also, what if you added an ejection pod like the one on the F-111 for the crew for if something goes wrong in atmospheric flight? I can't wait to see what you're going to do with your design for the new/old Free Trader.
Here is the updated version of the scout deck plans.
Scout/Courier Deck Plans
Hunter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi
I really like the design of the new Scout -- it almost looks like something we could design with today's technology (except for maybe the jump drive). Just one quick question, though: where is the main airlock located? Aft between the engines always seemed a poor place, not to mention hot, to put the main airlock. It looks like there's room on the starboard side by the air raft bay where maybe you could put one in.
Also, what if you added an ejection pod like the one on the F-111 for the crew for if something goes wrong in atmospheric flight? I can't wait to see what you're going to do with your design for the new/old Free Trader.
I love the new Scout design. Similar enough to the CT original to be recognizable but altogether more convincing. I always thought the old Scout looked a little too much like a miniature version of a Star Destroyer main hull.
I made a 3D rendering of the new Scout design if anyone's interested:
http://www.tedlindsey.com/3d/scout_courier_322.jpg
- Ted
I made a 3D rendering of the new Scout design if anyone's interested:
http://www.tedlindsey.com/3d/scout_courier_322.jpg
- Ted
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tlindsey:
I made a 3D rendering of the new Scout design if anyone's interested:
http://www.tedlindsey.com/3d/scout_courier_322.jpg
- Ted<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very sweet! Mind if I put a copy in the Gallery with a link back to your site?
BTW, I did get your email from before and passed your information on to Steve Bryant. We have some ship PDFs planned I'd love to see some of your work in
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 30 April 2002).]
I made a 3D rendering of the new Scout design if anyone's interested:
http://www.tedlindsey.com/3d/scout_courier_322.jpg
- Ted<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very sweet! Mind if I put a copy in the Gallery with a link back to your site?
BTW, I did get your email from before and passed your information on to Steve Bryant. We have some ship PDFs planned I'd love to see some of your work in
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 30 April 2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
Very sweet! Mind if I put a copy in the Gallery with a link back to your site?
BTW, I did get your email from before and passed your information on to Steve Bryant. We have some ship PDFs planned I'd love to see some of your work in
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 30 April 2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Be my guest. I'd be honored to be shown in the Artwork Gallery.
- Ted
Very sweet! Mind if I put a copy in the Gallery with a link back to your site?
BTW, I did get your email from before and passed your information on to Steve Bryant. We have some ship PDFs planned I'd love to see some of your work in
Hunter
[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 30 April 2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Be my guest. I'd be honored to be shown in the Artwork Gallery.
- Ted
bryan gibson
Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Neo:
I have to say WOW i like that rendering very cool.
Any chance of some colour ship rendered pictures in the Rulebook Hunter? that'd be awesome
And Mr Lindsey's obviously got the knack
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mr Lindsey,
I am impressed! It is always a pleasure to see different interpretations of the work, and I would appreciate it if you could email me. At sabakakrazny@aol.com,
perhaps we might collaborate?
Bryan gibson
I have to say WOW i like that rendering very cool.
Any chance of some colour ship rendered pictures in the Rulebook Hunter? that'd be awesome
And Mr Lindsey's obviously got the knack
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mr Lindsey,
I am impressed! It is always a pleasure to see different interpretations of the work, and I would appreciate it if you could email me. At sabakakrazny@aol.com,
perhaps we might collaborate?
Bryan gibson
