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Using Book 8 In Your Games

It seems that many Traveller players tend to ignore Book 8: Robots. I'm not sure why this is...maybe the work necessary for the design sequences turn them off?

I'm here to tell ya that Book 8 is a very, very useful book for a GM to use when governing his campaign. The rules can be used in more than one way.





First off, the book can be used to do what it was designed to do: that is, give GMs a tool to use in populating their Traveller universes with robots.

Make a couple of robots, and always keep your designs. Re-use them. It's understandable that the PCs will run into the same type of robot during their travels (just as there are several types of R2 units in Star Wars). You can always take a design you've made in the past and change it a bit (just as an R2 unit is a bit different than an R4 unit). Small work for a big gain. And, the detail is exceptional for a campaign.

Read the section of Book 8 entitled Robots In Future Society. That will help you place and create and describe robots that "fit" into the universe.





Designing robots can either be a fun task or a chore. Many aspects of Traveller involve building things, and many players enjoy this aspect. Many GMs find it fun to tinker, build, and create things for their games. Book 8 gives you all the tools you need to create robots, from tin cans that roll around on wheels to bots that are more like Blade Runner replicants. You can also use the design system to build things like robotic probes that shoot out of the combat air/raft, fly around on a grav field, and report back sensor information from up ahead. You can stretch the system, think "out of the box", and even combine the system with the vehicle design system provided in Striker.

One of the benefits to designing your own robots came flying into my face one day when I decided to design a Zhodani combat probe bot. I had an idea in mind. I wanted triangular body, squashed into a flat disc shape, that was about 2 meters from tip to stern, that flew around on a grav drive. The flat triangles would be painted forest green for their duty in the forested region where I was going to put them. They'd travel around in threes, and there was to be no real "front" or "back" to them. Each of the "points" (flattened, like a flat head screwdriver) would always point in the direction of motion, though.

I thought it'd be neat to describe these things, floating about a meter and a half off the ground. They'd be dormant. Just hovering there. When their proximity sensors picked you up, they'd spring to life, seemingly out of nowhere. When they turned, they'd swivel on their grav axis, but they didn't need to do a 180. They'd just rotate on axis to the next triangle point, and then speed off in the direction to which it pointed.

I wanted the skin of these probes to be smooth. Weapons would lift up out of the probe via hull conformed hatches.

In many rpg's, my design of these probes would be near complete. I'd just have to make up how they acted in combat--what weapons they used--and how well their sensors worked. I'd play them just like another NPC, except these would be robot-brain guided probes.

This is where the design system taught me something. You can't always have what you want. My design, although neat and visual in my imagination, was too small to include everything I wanted to include within that hull. There just wasn't enough volume!

Rather than altering what I had set in my mind's eye, I went about using Book 8 to design a combat probe bot that was a close to what I imagined without altering it. I couldn't fit near the weapons and sensors that I wanted to fit on the probe. There just wasn't enough room for the brain, propulsion, weapons, computer, and sensors.

My design ended up being a remote controlled probe. I took the brain out, to make space, and replaced it with a comm/control unit. These probe bots would not really be bots at all--but remote controlled probes not unlike our real life Predators.

Most of my design housed power plant, grav system, and sensors, although I didn't get as many sensors in that thing as I wanted to.

I was able to squeeze in a weapon. But, rather than having a laser weapon plus miniature rockets and a slugthrower and flamethrower (not to mention some defensive devices I had in mind, like a smoke field and mine dropper and a flare gun launch tube), I had to settle for just having a slug thrower raise up out of the chassis.

And, I only had room for one slug thrower, too, which meant that my neat turning idea would be scratch, because the probe would, indeed have to turn 180 degrees to bring the weapon's muzzle around to fire at something behind it. Well, I thought that, at least, until I came up with the idea of having the gun be able to swing on an axis, too. It would rise up out of the center of the finished probe and be able to swing in any direction around the circumference of the probe.

See...by designing my combat probe using the Book 8 rules, the design sequence forced me to keep my design realistic in terms of the universe. The Traveller universe ain't the Star Wars universe (because I doubt that all those functions could be incorporated into an R2 unit, if it were designed using Book 8).

I thought that was pretty cool. My super-neat, but non-realistic combat probe bot became a remote controlled grav fl yer with limited ammo.

The probes were still scary to the PCs, but they weren't insurmountable. I found a weakness in my design....they'd run out of ammo fairly quickly.

But...that became "cool" in the game, too. The players learned the design when they say it again, and they knew it's weakness. I caught one player even schooling a new player who had come to the campaign when they ran into my probes again, "These suckers don't carry a lot of ammo, so keep your head down. That's the good news. The bad news is that they're remote controlled by live pilots, which means there's a Zho base somewhere around here where the probe operators are housed--and they know we're here."

As the campaign progressed, I tinkered around with my design. I made one that carried extra ammo. I changed weapons on them. I changed their paint schemes. I made one that laid mines. I made a sentry unit with a flare gun launcher. One time, I changed the type of sensors the probe had.

(The original design only had visual, computer enhanced and infra-red, but nothing more lavish than that. The operators would see what the probes see on their monitors, and if the scene was to be recorded, that would have to be done at the pilot's base, not on the probe itself. The players successfully kept that record from happening when they jammed the probe's signal during a game.)

See my point here? Look at all this detail that I was able to bring to my game. It didn't come from me making it up on the spot. It came from having to do the work and understand what it would take to make such a unit. Had I not created the probe using the Book 8 design system, then they would have probably not as cool in my game. They'd be unrealistic, much more powerful, and I wouldn't know them as well as I do.

Besides, I find it very fun to tinker with stuff like this. I love the missile design system in Special Supplement 3 for the same reason.





But, let's say you don't like working through Traveller design systems (or, let's say you just don't have the time). Book 8 will accommodate you as well as the design sequence grognard. Look at pg. 51 of the book. There you will find a Quick Design System. In just a few dice throws (that you can do right in the middle of a game, making a robot up on the spot, if you need to), you'll have a robot designed at your fingertips.

If you like the quick robot you threw together using those tables, you can later take that info that you generated quickly and go through the full design sequence to flesh out the details. The quick system was designed to be 100% compatible with the full design system. So, all of your robots that you slapped together in under a minute can, indeed, be fleshed out using the full design sequence.





There's plenty of notes in Book 8 to cover most aspects of having robots in your game. There's notes on robot random encounters. There's notes on using robots as patrons. There's notes using a robot as a player character. And, there's an entire chapter on using robots in combat, complete with hit location tables.





Book 8: Robots is a fantastic Traveller resource. It's a quick and easy read, like all of the LBBs. And, I am truly amazed at how much it covers in those few 56 pages.
 
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Book 8

Yes. I opened a few weeks ago for the first time in years. You can also use Joe Fugate's spreadsheet to speed the process.
 
I love book 8!

Book 8 has always been one of my favorites too, I mean, robots are a staple of science fiction, are they not? And besides, all the power of a super-slave at your command, without any of the moral problems (unless you make them AI..)!

One thing I did to "think outside the box" like you said is to combine those rules with the MT vehicle design rules, which I found were very compatible (yes I'm one of those gearheads who likes the system). This allows me more options for armor and weapons, propulsion, power (IC-robots are funny, and fission-bots... watch out when shooting around them!), and exspecially... size! Fit a robot-brain (or a few even) into an otherwise normal vehicle with a good computer, at least electronic controls, and you've got full-automation. Ok, so not as good for advneturing when you have to give PCs something to do, but when you have a team of all mercenaries, diplomats, or scientists, it can be cool. :)
 
I've never been 100% happy with Book 8, primarily because by the time I got a copy (the awkwardly shaped reprint book) it struck me as being a little 'retro' in the same sense as those shipboard computers. I got the idea that we can probably make stuff smaller, faster, cleverer and cheaper today than the book suggests for TL11.

I added in a few houserules and stole a few ideas from Gurps Robots to make a system I was happier with.

Thinking outside the box, I built my Battledress using a mix of Book 8 and Striker.

Got a link to that spreadsheet?
 
JTAS #3 has robot rules too. Don't think I ever used Book #8.

I used GURPS Robots for other games not Traveller and I liked their
system despite being somewhat cumbersome.

Love those assassin droids in Clone Wars they've been featuring.

>
 
I love Book 8, as I love my shotgun. Both are wonderfully useful, applied in the appropriate context with restraint. Wrong context, both can really ruin the party.

There's a thread that addresses this, with some brains I developed.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=17244

I think that my real problem with Book 8 is that it really can unbalance LBB2 and 5. It must therefore be applied with restraint. I think any steward will rely on cleaning bots, they will handle cargo in any developed setting.

Just looking at LBB2; it costs MCr .5 to build a stateroom for a gunner, plus overhead, plus life support, plus the pittance that he actually gets paid. Finding a Gunner-4 is a bit of a challenge. For half of that initial capital investment, you get a gunner-4 who lives in the turret. He'll need adult supervision, but if you have four turrets, you can have three AstroMech gunners, and a chief gunner human-in-the-loop who bunks with the steward.

The ability to use 350 liters of space to put in a gunner in a fighter gives a huge advantage in LBB-2 or -5 designs.

My favorite series of LBB8 designs are here:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?p=312210#post312210
 
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JTAS #3 has robot rules too.

The rules in JTAS (It was a two-parter, right?), just FYI, were a precursor to Book 8. My memory is fuzzy on this, but I did read an article (I think that article was in Traveller's Digest) about the creation of Book 8.

Wasn't the JTAS robots article written by Marc or somebody associated with GDW? Even so, the article I read about Book 8 stated that Joe Fugate (from DGP) used those original JTAS rules and improved upon them, added to them, expanded them, to make Book 8.

You could consider the JTAS set as version I, and the Book 8 rules as version II.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong (but I think I'm corrrect in stating this).





I think that my real problem with Book 8 is that it really can unbalance LBB2 and 5. It must therefore be applied with restraint. I think any steward will rely on cleaning bots, they will handle cargo in any developed setting.

OTOH, this can also be used as a "pull" for an adventure, depending on where your game is set.

For example, if your game is set in the Aramis subsector of the Spinward Marches (setting of the Traveller Adventure), then some high tech, game-unbalancing robots will be hard to find, indeed. There's only one world in that subsector that is TL 13. That's Aramis--a single city planet, where the city is underground in a giant cave. All other worlds in that subsector are lower TL, usually much lower. Pysadi, Aramis' near neighbor, is TL 4 and run by a religious group of nut cases. No robots there. Natoko, a TL 9 world, is undeveloped. It's holds a Tukera base and a starport and little else. Maybe no robot distributor there.

Or, maybe the robots are there, but they're expensive. And, you're limited to TL anyway.

My point is, you won't find game-changing TL 15 combat bots growing on trees in the Aramis subsector. Any bot like like that will be very rare, in deed, and it will be very expensive given how far its been transported (if it exists in the subsector at all).

Take a look at your environment--your subsector. You'll find TL and environmental controls to use to keep any piece of equipment (bot) from being a game-changing bore.



Just looking at LBB2; it costs MCr .5 to build a stateroom for a gunner, plus overhead, plus life support, plus the pittance that he actually gets paid. Finding a Gunner-4 is a bit of a challenge. For half of that initial capital investment, you get a gunner-4 who lives in the turret. He'll need adult supervision, but if you have four turrets, you can have three AstroMech gunners, and a chief gunner human-in-the-loop who bunks with the steward.

Point taken. But, also consider what I've said above. Cost may be a real issue (especially if the GM needs to inflate the cost because of transportation). Even your quoted 500,000 Cr is nothing to sneeze at. Do the PCs have that kind of cash? Do the PCs have 1,500,000 Cr for three of them?

And, your biggest deterrent to this will be your envrionment. Even if the PCs have the cash, is the tech available? Where will the PCs have to go to get it?

Once they get it and get into a space fight with pirates, what will the PCs have to go through to get it repaired?

Not all of these questions are easily answered, and they can be entries into adventures as well.
 
Book 8 and 101 Tincans are on my "Don't use, don't allow" list of books. If I want the players drones/bots running the adventure I play StarTrek: Next Degeneration and use the HoloSomething.
 
Dpg101

Book 8 was and is one of my favorites.

Add in DPG 101 Robots and you have a great start of making and categorizing your robots.

Dave Chase

I'll have to pick that up. I don't think i have any of the 101 books...hmm


What are others? TNE has 6 pages in Vampire Fleet. I look at the two and see no reason not to just use book 8.
 
Not speaking for mbrinkhues but I'm more in his camp on this than others.

Book 8 pretty much goes against everything that came before in so many setting breaking ways as to be pretty useless. As in to use it I'd need to "fix" a lot of other stuff to be compatible, or change pretty much the whole of Book 8 to make it fit the rest. At least that's the way I recall it.

I remember when we first got it. We built all kinds of robots. And they all pretty much had OTU setting destruction as a default base program.

Can't find a decent Engineer? Build one.

Tired of getting shot? Send in a bot.

etc, etc...

The game would soon have gone from Char Gen and Adventurers in an Imperium Ruled by Men, to one of Bot Build and Programmed Tasks in an Imperium Devoid of Men.

I think I ended up just taking the ideas of bots (from the random gen tables, which I have used) and dumbing them down a lot. In MTU Sarah Conner succeeds and John never has to fight the rise of the machines :)
 
I found LBB8 waay too dated, and was turned off by the complexity. I wonder if anyone has composed a point-buy system for building bots, much like some homebrew systems use point-buy for PCs...?
 
Basically what far trader says.

The dangers of players abusing the bots is too great IMHO/In my experience. Unlike the StarWars Droids with their Personality (Basically most useful Droids are NPC's) Traveller bots are simple yet smart robots without a real personality, they are maschines that players will use and discard(1) There is a reason most Cyberpunk games have the concept that a rigger get's hurt when he looses a drone or bot he controls.


(1) Unless you start adding massive houserules etc. AI ist TL15/experimental in Book 8
 
Interesting post and thread. I hated Book 8; I wanted a big book of developed driods for my game. I didn't want to have to sit and create the valet robot, the security robot, the cargo-handling robot, the medical robot etc, etc.

I suppose, riffing of of S4's post, you don't need to create those, you can use the system to create the interesting ones. The ones that have some influence within the plot - otherwise, what's the point??

It's certainly made me consider getting it out of the box again...
 
Robots are cool.

While I haven't really used Book 8 (though I have read it, got the Collected Books 0-8) I always figured that robots are part of the future and work fine in Traveller. Maybe not full-on AIs, but basic work bots seem fine for things like cargo handling and such like don't seem out of whack for the OTU. There are after all a couple, or at least one (Research Station Gamma, too lazy to look up which Adventure it is, sorry) has robots in it. Seemed to work just fine.

But hey, that's just my thoughts.
 
Point taken. But, also consider what I've said above. Cost may be a real issue (especially if the GM needs to inflate the cost because of transportation). Even your quoted 500,000 Cr is nothing to sneeze at. Do the PCs have that kind of cash? Do the PCs have 1,500,000 Cr for three of them?

And, your biggest deterrent to this will be your envrionment. Even if the PCs have the cash, is the tech available? Where will the PCs have to go to get it?

The economics here are starship economics; the .5 MCr is not for the bot. It is the stateroom saved in a starship design. A TL13 ship has the same maintenance challenges that a TL13 bot does. The bot gunner can be had for half that. Really, you can do nicely with one for a quarter. If you figure 10% of the capital cost for maintenance, then you are running about the same as human life support. I would say that if you are only paying for parts, then 5% is more realistic. Mech-2 is nothing to add to a Ballard 1C!
 
Book 8 pretty much goes against everything that came before in so many setting breaking ways as to be pretty useless. As in to use it I'd need to "fix" a lot of other stuff to be compatible, or change pretty much the whole of Book 8 to make it fit the rest. At least that's the way I recall it.

Hm. I don't feel that way at all about Book 8 (obviously).

Can't find a decent Engineer? Build one.

Can your players afford one, though? Most Book 8 robots run, in cost, from 50,000 Cr to 5,000,000 Cr or more. 100,000 Cr for a robot is not uncommmon.

Add to that the difficulties of enviornment (TL and manufacturer) in obtaining one, and Book 8 is pretty well balanced.

Think about it like this: Book 4 brings a lot of weapons to the game that can unbalance a campaign in no time flat. But, you don't allow each and ever member of your tramp far trader crew to have Battle Dress, do you? Of course not. The stuff is expensive, and the environment (tech and market restrictions) allow you to keep that stuff out of the player's hands most of the time.

GMs should look at Book 8 the same way. You can't just give them expert robots for everything they need just like you won't outfit the entire party with PGMPs and Battle Dress.

You keep that stuff "sacred" and "rare". Maybe, like a D&D character running across a +5 Holy Avenger, the characters will get something cool like a neat expert robot or a set of battle dress as a reward found during an adventure. But, it will be a single item.

Your first line of defense is the cost of robots. Most PCs don't have an extra 100,000 Cr grand lying around. Maybe they can pool their resources, but I doubt you're going to unbalance a game with one or two robots added to the ship.

You second line of defense is the act of adventuring. If the PCs take the robot off the ship on the adventure, it becomes a target (especially if the robot can attack enemies). Shoot the sucker. Have the robot go down for several game sessions while the PC try to get to a planet where spare parts can be found (not always the next stop because of TL and environment restrictions).

If the robot never leaves the ship, then don't forget to include it as a possible target whe the crew are hit...or as collateral damage during a hull or cargo hit.

Your third line of defense is some of the things I spoke about earlier in this post.





I found LBB8 waay too dated, and was turned off by the complexity.

I can't speak to the your opinion of it being "dated". I mean, this is Classic Traveller. It has a certain feel.

But, as to the "complexity", remember that Book 8 contains two design systems. One is somewhat complex (I wouldn't call it super complex--it's about like most Traveller design systems, such as High Guard or Striker Vehciles). The other is not complex at all. It's meant to be quick-n-dirty. It's a couple of tables requiring a few dice throws. Viola! Insta-robot. It generates all the things you need to role play the robot.

If you want to flesh that insta-robot out further, then run it through the more complex design system....but you don't have to. You can play with just the basics that the quick design system provides.

Literally, you can roll up a robot using the quick design system in a minute or two--right in the middle of a game, in need be.





The economics here are starship economics; the .5 MCr is not for the bot. It is the stateroom saved in a starship design. A TL13 ship has the same maintenance challenges that a TL13 bot does. The bot gunner can be had for half that. Really, you can do nicely with one for a quarter. If you figure 10% of the capital cost for maintenance, then you are running about the same as human life support. I would say that if you are only paying for parts, then 5% is more realistic. Mech-2 is nothing to add to a Ballard 1C!

Understood what you're saying...you're saying to include the cost of bots in the price of the ship and pay for them for the life of the ship loan.

But...will ship lenders do that? Can you roll your car note into your house payment? Usually, no.

As a GM, I'd make that call. A ship is one thing. The bots have to be a separate deal. You pay for your refrigerator separate from your mortgage, and I think robot financing should be done likewise.
 
The economics here are starship economics; the .5 MCr is not for the bot. It is the stateroom saved in a starship design.


Samuel,

I don't buy that explanation.

If you're buying a Gunnery 'bot for your pre-existing starship that stateroom you think you're "saving" already exists. If the stateroom isn't used by a human gunner, you don't magically get back the 500K CrImps and see the space converted into cargo volume either. You can save on life support by sealing it off, put pax in it to collect passage fees, or pay to have a starport turn into cargo volume, but the savings are neither large or automatic.

If you're buying a Gunnery 'bot so you can leave out a stateroom in the one-of-a-kind starship you're designing, the money you're saving by not having a stateroom for a sophont gunner is a pittance when compared to the naval architect and one-off construction fees your one-of-a-kind ship will incur.

This isn't to say that 'bots aren't ubiquitous in the OTU or that I didn't use them extensively IMTU, I'm the guy who coined the "Robots Are Toasters" phrase after all, but it to say that characters in the OTU won't have a herd of 'bots surrounding them in the same way minions surround a high level AD&D character.

'Bots are a lot of fun if handled correctly. Like anything else they can be overused or underused, but it would be a disservice to any Traveller group if their GM didn't pull a 'bot out of his hat every now and then.

I had a recurring NPC IMTU called "Doc Wrencher"(1). He was a medical doctor who wandered the backwater regions of the District 268, Glisten, Sword Worlds, and Lunion subsectors providing free or nearly free medical care aboard a detached duty scout/courier manned by a crew of 'bots. IIRC, he had a pilot/nav 'bot, a steward/gunnery/security 'bot, two medical/orderly 'bots, and a single overworked engineering 'bot.

The overworked engineering 'bot was my usual hook with Doc. His ship generally needed some kinds of additional maintenance performed on it's systems and Doc's many friends were always happy to make sure that happened. Another way you could meet Doc was when one of his friends asked you to carry a few dTons of medical supplies out to his current location. They'd first ask you to do it gratis, but would pay if pressed.

My players were at first suspicious of Doc, but they eventually realized he was exactly what he seemed to be. By that time, they were among the thousands of friends Doc Wrencher had.


Regards,
Bill

1 - Doc Wrencher's name was borrowed from a real Doc Wrencher who taught health physics at the Naval Reactor Facility in Idaho during my time stationed there. The real Doc was an extremely accomplished man who had, among many other things, served as a demolition diver during D-Day.
 
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Can your players afford one, though? Most Book 8 robots run, in cost, from 50,000 Cr to 5,000,000 Cr or more. 100,000 Cr for a robot is not uncommon.

Add to that the difficulties of environment (TL and manufacturer) in obtaining one, and Book 8 is pretty well balanced.

Your first line of defense is the cost of robots. Most PCs don't have an extra 100,000 Cr grand lying around. Maybe they can pool their resources, but I doubt you're going to unbalance a game with one or two robots added to the ship.

Understood what you're saying...you're saying to include the cost of bots in the price of the ship and pay for them for the life of the ship loan.

But...will ship lenders do that? Can you roll your car note into your house payment? Usually, no.

As a GM, I'd make that call. A ship is one thing. The bots have to be a separate deal. You pay for your refrigerator separate from your mortgage, and I think robot financing should be done likewise.

Yep, the above sums up one bit of it. So ships won't have crews they'll have bots, lumped into the cost of the ship and paid on the same mortgage. And yes you can get your fridge (and other appliances and furniture iirc and house payments on the same plan, at least I seem to recall a few lenders offering the option). You might have a single sophont in control of it all. Not a pilot, but a roboticist :) Fine for a solo or single player game.

Then you have the players who want to BE the bot. And have you tried to kill a bot? You think it's hard getting players vulnerable by divesting them of their body armor (it stinks, wash it already!) and weapons. Try it when they are built in and the player never has to sleep.

Or the players who are still happy to play people, but they want to build an expert bot... with Instruction to bump their own skill set during those interminable weeks in jump space.

And so on. And I haven't even touched on the spin-offs of the robot design tables that clever players are only too happy to capitalize on :)

It's hard to keep it rare when there's a world capable of building it within reach of the players (the same subsector or sector), and this is Traveller so they will travel. It's not like a +5 Holy Avenger crafted by the high priest of Snogdoom with the aid of that great deity to be held in trust for the one true Paladin that can pass the terrible trials of the dungeon of Phaar. It's more like going down to the local Wallybarn (for the cheap budget models) or maybe ordering from the Noman Mark-S catalog (for quality and style) and having a custom tailored bot delivered to you for a premium price :)

About the only way to keep bots rare or under control is the same way one does it with the weapons and armor you note Book 4 presented. Laws. Nobody said with Book 4 that suddenly players could have plasma guns and battle dress did they? No. That is for the soldiers. The professionals. Now IF your players are said professionals, in the employ of licensed companies, of course they should have the gear to do the job. I don't recall Book 8 emphasizing such restrictions, but it's been a while. Maybe they did touch on the Shudashm(?) Accords (or some early draft of the idea). But what I recall most (unless I'm pulling it from MT or elsewhere) was that high tech robots could be financed, over the life of the bot, which was 80+ years. That makes even the MCr bots cheap for PCs.

But maybe all my memory is coloured by the knowledge at the time. I might look at it very differently now. Maybe I'll give it a look again.
 
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Perhaps the CT grognards here should author:

1001 Robot Characters
Robots of the Imperium
Robot Encounters



Being a CT cadet, I think I'll just sit back and let the old spacefarers work on this one!

:D
 
DGP published 101 Robots back in the day. It's one of the rarer CT books now. Goes for big bucks on eBay.

You'll also find additonal robot designs and addons in Traveller's Digest.
 
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