Using Mongoose's ship shares in CT

[JAFARR]

While I did not care much for Mongoose Traveller, I like the idea of ship shares as an option. How can this be implemented in CT?

From LBB2

Free Trader (type A): Using a 200-ton hull, the free trader​

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is an elementary
interstellar merchant ship plying the space lanes carrying cargo and passengers.​

It​

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has jump drive-A, maneuver drive-A, and power plant-A, giving performance
of jump-I and 1-G acceleration. There is fuel tankage for 30 tons, sufficient for the
power plant and one jump-I. Adjacent to the bridge is a computer Modelll. There
are ten staterooms and twenty low berths. No turrets or weaponry are installed, but
there are two hardpoints and two tons are set aside for fire control. There are no
ship's vehicles. Cargo capacity is 82 tons. The hull is streamlined.
The free trader requires a crew of four: pilot, engineer, medic, and steward.
Gunners may be carried if the ship is armed. The ship costs MCr37.08 and takes​

11 months to build.

from LBB7
Ships: It is possible to receive a ship as a mustering-out benefit from some merchant
lines. Free Traders, Far Traders, and Fat Traders are described more fully later
in this book. Free Traders are jump-I , 1 G trading ships. Far Traders are jump-2 trading

ships. Fat Traders are larger capacity jump-1 trading ships.

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from LBB1
Starships: Two types of starships are available as mustering out benefits: type

A free traders and type S scout/couriers.
The type A free trader is a 200-ton cargo vessel equipped to handle both freight
and passengers. The ship and details on the financial circumstances noted below are
fully described in Book 2. Receipt of this ship as a benefit confers possession of the
ship, but also liability for the monthly payments (about Cr150,OOO) for the next
forty years. Fuel, crew, and other expenses must also be handled by the character.
If the ship benefit is received more than once, each additional receipt is considered
to represent actual possession of the ship for a ten-year period. The ship is thus ten

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years older, and the total payment term is reduced by ten years. It is possible for a

character to own a ship, free and clear, by successively rolling the ship benefit five
times (once to obtain ​

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it, and four times to pay off the four 10-year sequences of
payment). The ship is also forty years old.
The type S scout/courier is a 100-ton dispatch vessel of a type very common
within human space and fully described in Book 2. It is the policy of the scout
service to make available such surplus scout ships to selected individuals on a
reserve basis. The vessels are (hopefully) put to good use while they are not required
in service, and both the ship and its pilot are available for recall to duty
when needed. Only one scout ship may be acquired by a character; further receipt
of this benefit results in no further effect. Possession of the scout ship is at the
pleasure of the scout service, and it cannot be sold by the character. The ship may
be used as desired. Fuel is free at scout bases. Maintenance is free at the scout
bases at class B starports. The character is responsible for both upkeep and crew
costs.
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With respect to the passesages above, I would set the Type A as a guide for setting the value of shares noting that 5 benefits equal a ship worth 37.08 MCr. In other words 1 ship benefit has 7.416 MCr in purchasing power rather than Mongooses's 1% of the ship reguardless of price.

Using that value, the following standard ships would cost the number of benefits (rounded up to the nearest 1/4 of a benefit) stated below:

Type S (Scout) = 3.75
Type A (Free Trader) = 5
Type J (Seeker) = 3.5
Type A2 (Far Trader) = 9
Type R (Fat Trader) = 13.5
Type CE (Close Escort) = 48.25

If the crew does not have sufficient benefits to fully pay for their ship, compute the remaining balance and apply a mortage. If they have extra benefits, add an upgrade like including weapons.

Now for a new wrinkle: allow TAS to be taken as a ship benefit instead.

Comments and feedback welcome

 

[BlackBat242]

OK... the sections you quoted are nearly identical to the appropriate sections from the CT books... so what's new there?

I always just did the "each additional 'ship benefit' takes off 1/4 of the remaining payments" thing for all ships. Either that, or the player could take the equivalent credit value in equipment/upgrades... such as modifying a cargo compartment to house/launch the 10-ton fighter you just picked up.

 

[aramis]

Roughly speaking, each receipt in CT is 20% of value... of that type of ship.

I'd round the numbers a bit more... MCr7.5 per share, if used on-type. MCr5 per share if off type. Or 10 years payments made on-type, and 5 years off-type. payments 1/192 of financed amount for 40 years.

On Types by career
Merchant: A, A2, R, R2, M
Noble: Y
Scout: S, S2, 150T Extended Scout
Pirate: T, Corsair, Xboat Tender
Belter: Seeker, Sa*, S2a*
Scientist: Labship, S2a*
Hunter: S2, K (Safari Ship)

* Sa, S2a, are HG redesigns of type S (wedgie) and S2 (serpent)... they have 10+ tons cargo space, so a lab can easily be fit. Or cargo space.
The S2 is the Serpent Scout, an Airframe version.

 

[JAFARR]

OK... the sections you quoted are nearly identical to the appropriate sections from the CT books... so what's new there?

I always just did the "each additional 'ship benefit' takes off 1/4 of the remaining payments" thing for all ships. Either that, or the player could take the equivalent credit value in equipment/upgrades... such as modifying a cargo compartment to house/launch the 10-ton fighter you just picked up.

Those sections are from the LBBs as noted for each quote.

 

[JAFARR]

Roughly speaking, each receipt in CT is 20% of value... of that type of ship.

I'd round the numbers a bit more... MCr7.5 per share, if used on-type. MCr5 per share if off type. Or 10 years payments made on-type, and 5 years off-type. payments 1/192 of financed amount for 40 years.

On Types by career
Merchant: A, A2, R, R2, M
Noble: Y
Scout: S, S2, 150T Extended Scout
Pirate: T, Corsair, Xboat Tender
Belter: Seeker, Sa*, S2a*
Scientist: Labship, S2a*
Hunter: S2, K (Safari Ship)

* Sa, S2a, are HG redesigns of type S (wedgie) and S2 (serpent)... they have 10+ tons cargo space, so a lab can easily be fit. Or cargo space.
The S2 is the Serpent Scout, an Airframe version.

As to ship types R2, S2 S2a T & Sa, where in CT can they be found?
I guess they can also apply to MTU standard ships as well.

 

[JAFARR]

For follow up;
(1) What about the idea of allowing multiple YAS benefits to become ship shares?
(2) When using the Merchant Prince/MT concept of merchants transfering up or down, which ship does a merchant aquire?
(A) free choice of any from the line(s) in which served, (B) last line served in, or (C) some other method?

Added: Sorry about the typo. Make thar TAS, not YAS

 

[rancke]

Or, and here's a completely crazy off-the-wall idea, you and your players could decide ahead of time what sort of campaign you'd like to run and they'd like to play in and you could then provide them with a ship tailored to fit that sort of campaign. Do the players want to skip all that boring trading stuff and just bum around the universe? Give them a Scout/Courier on loan from the Scouts. Would they like a slightly bigger ship? Let the Scouts provide them with a 200T converted Free Trader on the standard detatched duty terms, or let them have won the lottery and bought an obsolete Yacht from a noble who got a new one. Do you want the question of where to get next month's bank payment to overshadow every other aspect of the campaign? Give them a Free Trader with a crippling 40 year mortgage. Do they want a chance to get out from under part way through the campaign? Give them the Free Trader with three or four years of the mortgage unpaid. Do you want the bank payments to be important, but not all-important? Give them a 40 year old ship that's been refinanced. Do you want them to be relatively carefree, except every once in a while? Give them a 50 year old paid-off Far Trader that's subject to occasional breakdowns. Do you want the question of where to get the money to pay for the next repairs to overshadow every other aspect of the campaign? Give them a 100 year old ship that's subject to frequent breakdowns.

A ship is such a huge influence on the direction of a campaign that it's a plot device. It shouldn't come down to the random results of character generation giving the PCs a Scout/Courier, a Free Trader, a Yacht, or a Corsair, or two or three ships altogether or no ship at all.


Hans

 

[Max]

If I were creating a system like this I'd probably use the TNE chargen ship system as a base. I'd take a look at it if I were you and see if that might be a better base to work from for what you want. I agree that the chargen ship allocation of CT does tend to create problems, but there are plenty of ways to solve them - the Mongoose and TNE systems might be superior in that they let the players have control (instead of having a GM fiat that the 4 Type S received in chargen are withheld by the scout service and the chars are jointly assigned a Donov).

 

[BlackBat242]

While I did not care much for Mongoose Traveller, I like the idea of ship shares as an option. How can this be implemented in CT?

Those sections are from the LBBs as noted for each quote.

OK... then what was the purpose of mentioning Mongoose in the thread title and OP, if you were just going to quote & talk about CT?

As I (and many others) don't have Mongoose Traveller, we have no idea what you are referring to when you say "Mongoose Ship Shares"!

I thought you were trying to compare the two? How can we discuss something without any info as to what we are discussing?

You confuse me.


PS to Max... I don't have TNE either.

 

[Samules]

OK... then what was the purpose of mentioning Mongoose in the thread title and OP, if you were just going to quote & talk about CT?

As I (and many others) don't have Mongoose Traveller, we have no idea what you are referring to when you say "Mongoose Ship Shares"!

I thought you were trying to compare the two? How can we discuss something without any info as to what we are discussing?

You confuse me.


PS to Max... I don't have TNE either.

Same here.

 

[Max]

Sorry about that, I'll dig up the TNE rulebook and create a rough variation for CT tonight. Never thought about creating a rule for it, just used GM fiat, but maybe it would be preferable to create a houserule.

 

[aramis]

OK... then what was the purpose of mentioning Mongoose in the thread title and OP, if you were just going to quote & talk about CT?

As I (and many others) don't have Mongoose Traveller, we have no idea what you are referring to when you say "Mongoose Ship Shares"!

I thought you were trying to compare the two? How can we discuss something without any info as to what we are discussing?

You confuse me.


PS to Max... I don't have TNE either.

Because the thread is about backporting a MGT process to CT.

 

[BlackBat242]

Right... without ever telling us what that MGT process is.

Makes it kinda hard to give any advice, eh?

 

[CosmicGamer]

BlackBat242, While the OP, JAFARR, may have been inspired by Mongoose's 'ship shares' system, from what I can tell, he is not incorporating it and you do not need to know anything about the Mongoose system to comment. Simply comment on his proposal.

JAFARR, if a GM has everything preplanned, I agree with what folks have said here and in other threads. Giving a group a ship is totally up to the GM and the campaign or adventure that they have readied for their group and should not be left up to chargen.

If you are just 'winging' it, then try your system and let us know how it goes.

For follow up;
(1) What about the idea of allowing multiple YAS benefits to become ship shares?

YAS?

 

[JAFARR]

Did not intend to confuse. MGT mustering out benefits such as "Ship Share", "2 Ship shares", "+1 Edu or 2 ship shares". A ship share is 1% ownership of a ship. I did not remember TNE having that, but it has been a few years since I looked at TNE.

I was investigating the idea of each ship benefit having a set value and letting the PCs combine their benefits to purchase a ship together (with or witout a mortage). The Type S scout does not really help as it is technically a loan to a retired scout, so I was using the Type A free trader and the rule of 5 ship benefits equals a paid off ship to establish the value of a ship benefit as 1/5th the cost of a Type A.

I liked Aramis' suggestion that you make it worth 7.5 MCr for a ship type that you might receive and 5 MCr towards other ships. As multipe TAS benefits are a waste by the rules, I also proposed that they become ship benefits as well.

 

[BlackBat242]

CosmicGamer... as the question in the OP was "While I did not care much for Mongoose Traveller, I like the idea of ship shares as an option. How can this be implemented in CT?" then we DO have to know what a MGT "ship share" is to comment in an intelligent and pertinent way on the issue of incorporating MGT "ship shares" (or something similar) into CT.


JAFARR:
Ah, now I see.

Man, MGT sure skimps on the value of "ship" benefit rolls, doesn't it?

In CT & MT at least, the first roll is a 50% share, and additional ones are 25% of the remaining total (12.5% of the total ship value).


However, the MGT system does have added flexibility... it seems allows the PCs to "pool" their "ship shares" and go in on one ship together... as opposed to having 2-3 characters... each with their own partially-paid-off ship that must be crewed or re-sold (probably for a "loss" in value).

 

[aramis]

I was investigating the idea of each ship benefit having a set value and letting the PCs combine their benefits to purchase a ship together (with or witout a mortage).

Which is what was done in the playtest... each share was MCr1, and shares were generally in blocks of 5-15.

 

[JAFARR]

...

In CT & MT at least, the first roll is a 50% share, and additional ones are 25% of the remaining total (12.5% of the total ship value).


...

??? for a merchant it says first roll to get possession (with 40 years of payments) and 4 more to pay it off. Where did that 50% come from?

 

[JAFARR]

Which is what was done in the playtest... each share was MCr1, and shares were generally in blocks of 5-15.

What play test was this?

 

[aramis]

What play test was this?

Mongoose Traveller.