UWP in Mongoose Products

[creativehum]

I hesitate to bring this up, because I know discussion of canon can get all wooly. But I do have a question. (If we can sidestep any issues of whether or not revisions should or should not be made and focus on my question, that would be sweet.)

I know that Marc Miller has made adjustments to some of the planetary data in the Spinward Marches.

I know that Mongoose has been releasing products covering the Third Imperium (c. 1105).

I know that the Mongoose books -- at least at first -- did not have the updated info. (And I have no idea if there were any changes made in updated or additional printings.)

I'm curious if the more recent editions of the Mongoose products line up with the changes Marc has made. I'm guessing no! But I want to ask because I've seen suggestion on another forum that changes have been made in the planetary listings in Mongoose products. I've decided to follow up here--because this seems the best site to get answers on this.

In particular, from what I've read about the changes Marc made, I'm curious about changes in world sizes, as well as tech level and starport type.

(I believe I can nab those as part of an appendix that comes with a GDW map set I believe Marc made. But if they're in the Mongoose books, it'll be easier.)

Thanks!

 

[robject]

As Mongoose writes stuff, they use the latest version of UWP data that's out there. It's quite easy for them to do this, since Matt has a direct line to Marc, and vice versa, and Marc has the master spreadsheet.

 

[creativehum]

Awesome.

Do we know which Mongoose products have the latest UWP data?

Specifically, do these Mongoose Products have the latest data:

• Spinward Marches
• Spinward Encounters
• Spinward Marches Map Pack

Thanks!

 

[robject]

To actual real-live concrete questions, I defer to Don McKinney, who is likely to know the answers.

 

[aramis]

I suspect there may be a couple small changes after they went to print, but Don's really the one to ask. When in doubt, assume Travellermap.com is right unless Don says otherwise. If the books don't match, assume Marc updated something after deadline.

 

[creativehum]

Thanks guys!

For now I'll depend on the Traveller Map. (Again, I was intrigued with the stats for the physical qualities of the worlds, as well as hearing rumors some of the tech levels had been lowered. I prefer a rougher frontier environment for the Spinward Marches.)

If I get specifics on the Mongoose Products, I'll check them out.

 

[GypsyComet]

I think the high TLs (16+) were all from 1116+ sources, so dialing them back for 1105 to conform to the CT statements regarding Imperial TL is probably not a stretch.

 

[DonM]

All the recent UWP data in Mongoose products is from the T5SS, same as travellermap. However, older materials may have used earlier versions of the data (for example, Trojan Reach).

The T5SS actually had its origins in making sure Mongoose used corrected UWPs in its materials. However, as all who watch the T5SS know, there have been updates to the data.

That being said, is there a specific item to address?

 

[creativehum]

That being said, is there a specific item to address?

Yes. The following MgT products:

• Spinward Marches
• Spinward Encounters
• Spinward Marches Map Pack

Thanks!

 

[DonM]

That's not a specific item. Do you have a point you're raising for errata?

I seriously doubt that Spinward Encounters has any errata. The Map Pack is... a map pack; it would reflect the Spinward Marches book.

I haven't compared Spinward Marches to Travellermap, and I specifically excluded myself from the approval process for that book because Martin and I were... no longer able to work together, and I felt that would be unfair to him. That relationship was repaired during 2013-2014, and I continue to be thankful for that.

I did put together a file for Matthew, that needs to be reviewed and included in the Mongoose errata, of changes between sectors published and the T5SS. I'll see about adding that to the other two piles in front of me... :rofl:

 

[creativehum]

Hi Don,

Thanks for replying to this. And sorry for the confusion.

When you asked about "a specific item" I see now you were referring to a specific piece of errata, star system, piece of information.

I read "a specific item" as "a specific thing." That is, something I can pick and hold, as in, "Which specific Mongoose product are you talking about?"

I appreciate all the work you do to keep this stuff sorted. You're work on the Consolidated Errata for Traveller is fantastic and I'm really grateful for it.

There's a bit of disconnect, I think. I'm not looking to clarify one little bit of information; nor am I trying to drill down into minutia. Nor to dig up the fraught history I found when I did some Searching on these boards to find that information.

I posted simply a consumer who posted to find out which (if any) of the Mongoose products use the latest UWPs from Marc. Since I haven't looked at the Mongoose products before (hence the questions) reference to "earlier" and "later" products aren't going to be of use. (Earlier than what? Later than what?)

But it's all cool! I was only looking for info on two products really (Spinward Marches and Spinward Encounters). I've heard good things about the writing from Dougherty on the books. (I enjoyed his writing on The Bowman Arm a while back.) But I also read somewhere that Spinward Marches did not have the revised UWPs. I was wondering if that had been corrected in later printings. But I suspect I won't find out. And that's fine! I'll pick them up for the writing no matter what. (I think Dougherty does a great job of creating situation and conflict on the political/social/economic scale that the PCs can drop into.) I'll sort out the UWPs listed in the books on my own.

Thank you for getting back to me. Greatly appreciated.

 

[GypsyComet]

If you already have these books, look up Mongo. If it has a size 3, the UWPs are the old ones.

 

[creativehum]

Thanks!

 

[simonh]

All the recent UWP data in Mongoose products is from the T5SS, same as travellermap. However, older materials may have used earlier versions of the data (for example, Trojan Reach).

The T5SS actually had its origins in making sure Mongoose used corrected UWPs in its materials. However, as all who watch the T5SS know, there have been updates to the data.

That's good to know, if it's the case for the most recent, and upcoming products.

It was not the case for the Spinward Marches book though. Any revisions to the UWPs were vetoed. That's why Spinward Marches uses the original LBB Supplement 3 data, without any revisions made in intervening versions of Traveller or even any revisions to take into account the differences between the Mongoose Traveller version of the UWP code system.

That's why the Spinward Marches sector book data isn't actualy fully consistent with the rest of Mongoose Traveller. I'm not sure to what extent this policy may have affected the other sector books.

Simon Hibbs

 

[creativehum]

Hi Simon,

Thanks. That's specifically what I was curious about.

I was wondering if later printings of the Spinward Marches book was revised in any way in later printings/editions. I'm still confused about why/how this all happened or how it's being handled for the game line. But, honestly (and I mean honestly, folks) I don't care. (I've read enough all ready from other threads to know I don't care to hear any more about it.)

I'll just go make adjustments on my own. It's all good.

 

[rancke]

It was not the case for the Spinward Marches book though. Any revisions to the UWPs were vetoed. That's why Spinward Marches uses the original LBB Supplement 3 data, without any revisions made in intervening versions of Traveller or even any revisions to take into account the differences between the Mongoose Traveller version of the UWP code system.

Yeah, that was a silly thing to do. More of the 'nostalgia is better than experience' adulation of early CT material, I suppose.


Hans