Vargr / K'kree Bloodbath!

[Falkayn]

I am interested in going over the Gelath (or in K'kree the "Gn'hk'r") sector and developing it a bit so as to understand how the Julian Protectorate is likely to trade through there to the Two Thousand Worlds. Along the way I have found a couple of questions worth asking...

1. CT Alien book 2 on the K'kree shows a place called "Aat Nokr K'ng" in the above mentioned sector, with a black star next to it. The only other system marked on this map is the Ktuuxt!ligh system, which is marked with a white star. What are these two systems? Are they even star systems, or do they mark nebula, pulsars or other phenomena?

2. The K'kree in Gelath sector have a very narrow causeway across the Lesser Rift and their beachhead is surrounded by unaligned Vargr worlds. Given that canon makes little mention of K'kree expansion from this beachhead (despite their being billions of K'kree on the worlds there), what reasons could the K'kree have to be so peaceable to the neighbouring carnivores?

3. Based on a reference to the Lorean Hegemony (a member state of the Julian Protectorate) trading with the K'kree, I have postulated that a merchant brotherhood has been created in the Julian Protectorate. Calling themselves the Order of the Long Horizon, they takes vows of vegeterianism, shave their heads and devote themselves to studying and trading with the K'kree. Members of the Order get preferential treatment from the K'kree (i.e. get treated as low caste K'kree) but are required to vouch for the behaviour of non-members of the Order who travel wtih them whilst within K'kree space. The Order are mostly Human, with the odd Vargr. Because of the stringent eating restrictions, family units usually become members together, rather than just one member of the family joining. Does this sound interesting and worth developing further? What ideas can you think of for this area?

[Edit: I have uploaded a large (290KB) map of Gelath sector.]

[Edit2: Changed name of thread to attract more attention! ]

[Edit3: Please note that the Gelath sector map was produced by Traveller Universe from Peter Trevor]

 

[Falkayn]

Further K'kree/Vargr information:

Alien Module 3
"It was at this time that Vargr corsairs became a byword for pillage and violence, as the Sack of Gashikan (-1658) demonstrated. Those Vargr who reached into the human-dominated reaches of Gashikan and Mendan moved onward, and ultimately settled in areas to trailing of these human worlds - in the Vargr enclaves near K'kree space. These enclaves have continued to exist in isolation to this day, though few Vargr are left in the Second Empire of Gashikan, after the fierce wars which accompanied the unification of the region several hundred years ago."


From the Traveller Integrated Timeline:

-1000cX
The Vargr corsair-explorer-artist Mazaroegfl becomes the first Vargr to encounter the K'kree. Alien Races 1, SJG, 1998, p. 74.

-700c
Most Vargr Enclaves settled; Vargr explorers and traders dealing with K'kree. Alien Races 1, SJG, 1998, p. 74.

-200c
First Solomani contact with K'kree. Alien Module 6 - Solomani, GDW, 1986, p. 12.

-198
Gateway sector "formally" organized, as a gateway for commerce between Humaniti and the K'kree. MegaTraveller Journal #4, DGP, 1993, p. 24.

103
Ambassadors from the Third Imperium and the K'kree meet formally on neutral Mneomon (3012 Gateway) for the first time. MegaTraveller Journal #4, DGP, 1993, p. 24.

 

[Falkayn]

So the Vargr Enclaves (to coreward-trailing) were already trading with the K'kree in -700? That suggests a couple of interesting points:

1. Between -1000 and -700 the Vargr worked out how to appease K'kree anti-carnivorism.

2. Those Humans who had followed the Vargr out of Mendan would also have had a chance to meet the K'kree - making them the first members of Humaniti (did this prepare the K'kree for later Solomani/Vilani contact?).

3. By the time the K'kree met the Vargr, they had already been fought to a standstill by the Hivers, and had rejected their traditional principle of "Axavktrr xur" (=kill all meat eaters). Perhaps they were therefore more amenable to trading with the Vargr?

So by 1000-1100, the Vargr Enclaves have probably had an uneasy peace with the K'kree for at least 1700 years. Perhaps, the peace has been broken by the odd rogue Vargr, but it would be in everyone's best interest to ensure that no one rocks the boat for everyone else.

Add to this the Julian Protectorate's interest in trade through the Vargr Enclaves to the K'kree and there is even less reason to fight (and more firepower to prevent problems).

So let's imagine the Order of the Long Horizon starts around -700, and is later absorbed by traders in the Lorean Hegemony when they look to expand their trade routes to trailing, and the Two Thousand Worlds?

OTOH, the GURPS Traveller Alien Races 2 book blurb (I don't have the actual book) says:

The K'kree are constantly embroiled in skirmishes with the Vargr, and keep an uneasy peace along their borders with the Hivers and humanity.

So perhaps the JP isn't as successful in stopping rogue Vargr as they'd like to be?

 

[Elliot]

Do Vargr crave horse meat?

Do they gather in packs to hunt K'kree at night?

Do they rip the flesh from the Centaurs to fulfill their primal urges.

Does their heightened sense of smell locate a lone K'kree worker as accurately as radar?

I hope so.....

Come join the hunt........

 

[Jame]

Vargr make up a large percentage of the K'Kree-eating patronage at the Lone Star Restaurant, especially now that the K'Kree have begun boycotting it...

 

[shield]

Falkayn

One of those two systems is effectively the capital of the enclave. The emporer of the 2000 worlds has given the chief steplord wideranging powers to run his domain and fight off the vargr without having to go back to him for specific orders. This devolved power structure was set up after the disasterous showing in the hiver war.

As per the GURPS book2

Cheers
Richard

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by RichardP:
One of those two systems is effectively the capital of the enclave. The emporer of the 2000 worlds has given the chief steplord wideranging powers to run his domain and fight off the vargr without having to go back to him for specific orders. This devolved power structure was set up after the disasterous showing in the hiver war.

As per the GURPS book2

Thanks Richard! That makes a lot of sense, especially given the HUGE distances involved. After I get my PCs beat up by Gashikan agents, I'll have to have them run foul of the steppelord in that border area.

 

[grendelttroll]

Originally posted by Falkayn:
So the Vargr Enclaves (to coreward-trailing) were already trading with the K'kree in -700? That suggests a couple of interesting points:

1. Between -1000 and -700 the Vargr worked out how to appease K'kree anti-carnivorism.

Not too hard, once you know how.

K'kree have the most sensitive olfactory senses in any sentient species known. The mere scent of meat-eating on your breath or body odor causes them to panic.

The thing to do is this: wear a sealed vacc-suit at all times when dealing directly with them. That way your odors will not reach their supersnoots. Do NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, allow a centaur to board your vessel! Your odors get everywhere onboard. Even a trace will be picked up.

If you want to try to switch to a vegan diet before dealing with them remember this: It takes a average of THREE DAYS before what you have eaten is out of your system. Definately do a thorough scrubbing of all passageways during the jump and change your diet before leaving port.

2. Those Humans who had followed the Vargr out of Mendan would also have had a chance to meet the K'kree - making them the first members of Humaniti (did this prepare the K'kree for later Solomani/Vilani contact?).

Yes. That's why they weren't attacked on the spot.

3. By the time the K'kree met the Vargr, they had already been fought to a standstill by the Hivers, and had rejected their traditional principle of "Axavktrr xur" (=kill all meat eaters). Perhaps they were therefore more amenable to trading with the Vargr?

Oh, yeah. The Hivers, being the pacifists they are, still managed to spank the K'kree pretty badly with those little manipulations on those three worlds (which, I might add, are declared intridicted worlds to this day by the K'kree. Noone is to visit them upon pain of death). The K'kree kept their borders from the Hive Federation at a minimum of 4 parsecs, establishing client statesa as a "neutral zone."

So by 1000-1100, the Vargr Enclaves have probably had an uneasy peace with the K'kree for at least 1700 years. Perhaps, the peace has been broken by the odd rogue Vargr, but it would be in everyone's best interest to ensure that no one rocks the boat for everyone else.

Sounds like a plan.

Add to this the Julian Protectorate's interest in trade through the Vargr Enclaves to the K'kree and there is even less reason to fight (and more firepower to prevent problems).

The Star League is quite efficient for that purpose.

So let's imagine the Order of the Long Horizon starts around -700, and is later absorbed by traders in the Lorean Hegemony when they look to expand their trade routes to trailing, and the Two Thousand Worlds?

OTOH, the GURPS Traveller Alien Races 2 book blurb (I don't have the actual book) says:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The K'kree are constantly embroiled in skirmishes with the Vargr, and keep an uneasy peace along their borders with the Hivers and humanity.

So perhaps the JP isn't as successful in stopping rogue Vargr as they'd like to be? </font>[/QUOTE]You can't stop them all, but those caught are made examples of.

 

[Liam Devlin]

great stuff Falkayn & Grendel T Troll! Very Very well thought out! Thanks to richardP as well! Been wondering about the bordering zones out there between them. this is a most useful clue/ insight to the region.

 

[shield]

The kkree rely on their monitors (frigate design without the J drive), frigates and remote fighters to stop vargr raiders, and have a raider vessel that does pre-emptive strikes against intell designated targets (when intell gets if right).

The vargr respond with darting raids from their smaller, faster and more deadly ships (lets face it kkree ships are grossly inefficient)

Hope this helps
Cheers
Richard

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by RichardP:
The kkree rely on their monitors (frigate design without the J drive), frigates and remote fighters to stop vargr raiders, and have a raider vessel that does pre-emptive strikes against intell designated targets (when intell gets if right).

The vargr respond with darting raids from their smaller, faster and more deadly ships (lets face it kkree ships are grossly inefficient)

Sounds like an opportunity for the Julian Protectorate to buy some trading room with judicious deployment of Star Legion assets to provide the sort of commerce protection that the K'kree can't provide themselves (IOW fast, small and mobile).

Example vessels would be:

Measurement Mental-State Class Close Escorts - providing reasonable firepower in a small, independent package.

State Colour Class Carriers - providing a base of operations for a local Star Legion fleet, as well as total system coverage.

Polite Endeavour Heavy Fighters - TL 13 variant of the standard Legion heavy fighter.

Fearless Gesture Superiority Fighters - TL 13 variant of the standard Legion superiority fighter.

I'll have to work up a light carrier for regional patrols, and some other small ships for custom type duties.

 

[grendelttroll]

Nice ships!! Once I get my T20 rules I will be designing a few myself - TNE style. Of course, these ships will not exactly be protecting the K'kree.....

 

[Jame]

Do you have commerce raiding plans, Grendel?Perhaps 1k to 2.5k dton submarine-equivalents?

 

[Father Fletch]

Falkayn-
Have you given any thought to the K'kree being involved in 'destabilization' activities in the Gateway? I cannot remember the 'Lords of Thunder' details, but given the paranoia they normally display, and the fact that they racially tend towards long term thinking, (what will the herd need 1000 years from now?) I imagine them to be active in fronting terrorist groups, selling drugs to smuggling groups. etc.
-Being natural organic chemists because of their sense of smell I imagine that they can create amazing synthetic drugs. Even ones which get you high, but after awhile, funny thing, meat no longer tastes good!
With their natural distaste for dealing with Gnaak, what intermediates do you think they would use?
I would think one of their pacified client races, like the one written up in the SJG AR 2. Or perhaps your order of vegan merchants would be willing to do a little side work? Hmm?
I am kicking around some ideas for my player group...well I shouldn't go into any more detail, at least one of them is on this board!

 

[shield]

Father Fletch.

From memory, the KKREE in lords of thunder took over a pocket empire with brute force, no high tech poisons, biowarfare agents, just large ships with nukes (lets face it all kkree ships are large and appear grossly over gunned / sized compared to an imperial equivalent). I think the original alien module had a story from a solomani military liason with the kkree who relates a tale of the kkree trampling a rebel outpost (yes women and children) to death, as the targets were not worth bullets. This was on a low tech independent world that could not adjust to vegetarianism, so they nuked every city on the planet.

Falykan.

I am not usre that the KKREE would trust another force to provide military ships, even their oldest slave races are not allowed to build ships big enough to carry a bay weapon. Not sure they would allow humans and vargr warships to escort their merchants.

Cheers
Richard

 

[grendelttroll]

Originally posted by Jame:
Do you have commerce raiding plans, Grendel?Perhaps 1k to 2.5k dton submarine-equivalents?

Hmmm... Have to look through my TNE archives to see if I did any. I think I did. Do you mean deck plans or ship data. Keep in mind, the data will be in the old TNE format. I won't be getting my T20 book until, at least, next Friday.

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by RichardP:
Falykan.

I am not usre that the KKREE would trust another force to provide military ships, even their oldest slave races are not allowed to build ships big enough to carry a bay weapon. Not sure they would allow humans and vargr warships to escort their merchants.

Cheers
Richard

Good points, worth thinking up answers for!

From what I've read of the K'kree I suspect that they won't actually want their trade goods to be carried by K'kree ships past their borders anyway. K'kree merchant vessels are so ridiculously inefficient because of the massive crew sizes (due to each one having their whole family with them) and the large amount of space required for each K'kree aboard.

I would have the K'kree transferring their cargoes to non-K'kree vessels as soon as possible (which given their Xenophobia is probably at their border systems). It is those chartered cargos which might need protection on the way to Julian Protectorate space.

I wouldn't give a raiding Vargr good odds of survival if they attacked within a K'kree system. I'd expect that the defensive systems of the K'kree would be more than able to handle this sort of things.

 

[Liam Devlin]

I can see the K'Kree having the type of interface commerce worlds the Regency established during the 1132-1201 AI-Virus siege. These border worlds are where your licensed approved traders take off with K'Kree made goods, and trade from elsewhere enters the Dominion of the 2,000 worlds.
Naturally, they( these trade outposts) will have the usual heavy hoofed protection of system defense ships, etc. Controlled vestors of approach, approved entry jump points, and those *offlimits* delineated by satellite or remote Missile stations, & minefields.
these worlds will undoubtedly have a higher slave race population than normal, just to do the work of loading/ unloading the cargoes. Certain Trade organizations are probably allowed an embassy type of office arrangement with a set fixed bnumber of personnel allowed, all K'Kree dietary laws in effect (of course!).

As I dinnae have the astrographical maps of thise bordering region, these places will undoubtedly strategic in value to the K'Kree Dominion, and be patrolled.

I concur, the outbound traffic is the endangered traffic (those ships leaving the system). depending on the politics of the K'Kree Lord of the planet, this defense of trade might include the whole system; just K'Kree shipping; or a finite distance from the main world. Opens things up to all sorts of possibilities.

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by Father Fletch:
Falkayn-
Have you given any thought to the K'kree being involved in 'destabilization' activities in the Gateway? I cannot remember the 'Lords of Thunder' details, but given the paranoia they normally display, and the fact that they racially tend towards long term thinking, (what will the herd need 1000 years from now?) I imagine them to be active in fronting terrorist groups, selling drugs to smuggling groups. etc.
-Being natural organic chemists because of their sense of smell I imagine that they can create amazing synthetic drugs. Even ones which get you high, but after awhile, funny thing, meat no longer tastes good!
With their natural distaste for dealing with Gnaak, what intermediates do you think they would use?
I would think one of their pacified client races, like the one written up in the SJG AR 2. Or perhaps your order of vegan merchants would be willing to do a little side work? Hmm?
I am kicking around some ideas for my player group...well I shouldn't go into any more detail, at least one of them is on this board!

Nasty ideas! I have a copy of LoT, and it has some nasty ideas for this sort of thing. In terms of Gelath sector the pocket empire is too far away to be of interest, but the local steppelord might be inspired to bend the rules a little himself ...

 

[trader jim]

Now everyone listen up...this is entirely new to me...its a real shock to my poor old system...here goes....I admit I dont have a clue about this subject!!!...whats going on??? I guess i need to buy the Gurps Traveller Alion Books.. is that correct???