Vector Movement

[Spartan159]

I am using MgT rules, liberally stealing from any other version at my fingertips. I hate range bands with a passion and I am limited on table space for plotting movement with Mayday. Does anyone here use vector movement from CT? Looking for some input. I was thinking of using a graphics program with simple line graphics to represent space combat, I've figured that 1G of acceleration equals 324,000 meters movement in a 6 minute MgT space turn, I just need to translate that onto a canvas measured in pixels. Am I going about this all wrong?

 

[mike wightman]

Nope, sounds like a good way to do it, although your calculation of distance travelled is wrong
s(distance travelled)=0.5.a.t^2 = 0.5x10x360x360 = 648km

The only time I use vector movement these days is if I am wargaming an engagement.

During a roleplaying session my players prefer to describe their characters actions and make rolls.

Back in the day when I used to break out Mayday/Triplanetary maps that became all that happened - a whole evening of role playing wasted moving counters on a map.

Only a couple of people grasped the concept of vectors well enough to plan future movement, most would just accelerate as fast as possible and then wonder why they kept overshooting the target and couldn't just turn (dogfight lol). They wanted Star Wars, they got St. Newton

Hence my move to range bands, then radian graph paper and finally to abstraction most of the time.

 

[aramis]

I am using MgT rules, liberally stealing from any other version at my fingertips. I hate range bands with a passion and I am limited on table space for plotting movement with Mayday. Does anyone here use vector movement from CT? Looking for some input. I was thinking of using a graphics program with simple line graphics to represent space combat, I've figured that 1G of acceleration equals 324,000 meters movement in a 6 minute MgT space turn, I just need to translate that onto a canvas measured in pixels. Am I going about this all wrong?

Don't use pixels. Use a 2d (or if you're a total nutbar, 3D) cad (sketchup can do both, for free) with no fixed workspace size.. Gives you ALL the tools needed - You're measuring from a line endpoint to another line endpoint, and you can extend a new segment constrained to the old one, then extend a new one for the thrust, and rotate it the desired direction, then close the triangle.

This has another benefit. By using layers, you can move each turn to a new layer... and turn off the old ones, and review the battle by cycling through them.

 

[Spartan159]

Don't use pixels. Use a 2d (or if you're a total nutbar, 3D) cad (sketchup can do both, for free) with no fixed workspace size.. Gives you ALL the tools needed - You're measuring from a line endpoint to another line endpoint, and you can extend a new segment constrained to the old one, then extend a new one for the thrust, and rotate it the desired direction, then close the triangle.

This has another benefit. By using layers, you can move each turn to a new layer... and turn off the old ones, and review the battle by cycling through them.

Ooooo nice. I'll have to play with this ASAP.

 

[RockyMountainNavy]

Diaspora Space Combat

Take a look at how the Traveller fanboys who made the Diaspora RPG (http://www.vsca.ca/Diaspora) did it. Their space combat chapter is a free download at http://www.vsca.ca/Diaspora/Space combat demo.pdf

 

[Spartan159]

Re: Sketchup Ouch, learning curve ahead, slowing to turtle speed.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

You could use a spreadsheet to keep track of the velocity and position vectors. Most spreadsheet software can even draw pretty pictures for you.

If you want to limit admin you can use 1d vector movement. I tried it recently and found it workable, but the admin is still very noticeable. If you do not want to develop your own system The Traveller Book reputedly contains this system.

 

[McPerth]

I am using MgT rules, liberally stealing from any other version at my fingertips. I hate range bands with a passion and I am limited on table space for plotting movement with Mayday. Does anyone here use vector movement from CT? Looking for some input. I was thinking of using a graphics program with simple line graphics to represent space combat, I've figured that 1G of acceleration equals 324,000 meters movement in a 6 minute MgT space turn, I just need to translate that onto a canvas measured in pixels. Am I going about this all wrong?

MgT (1E):HG has rules for vector movement in page 84.

This said, always remember that:

• vector movement in only playable for a handful ships (amnong all sides involved
• Weapons ranges are enormous, so you'll need a large table/board
• speeds may mount quite quickly
• If no (relatively) immovile features (planets, asteroids, etc.) intervine, only the relative positions are important, so you can move the counters along the map as long as their relative positions and vectors are kept (or, as in AH Air forcé, adding maps as units reach the border of them)

 

[Spartan159]

You could use a spreadsheet to keep track of the velocity and position vectors. Most spreadsheet software can even draw pretty pictures for you.

If you want to limit admin you can use 1d vector movement. I tried it recently and found it workable, but the admin is still very noticeable. If you do not want to develop your own system The Traveller Book reputedly contains this system.

It does, I am cribbing from it now. It uses 1000 second turns and and each millimeter scales to 100km. I'm going to use MgT turns of 6 minutes, aka 360 seconds. 1G of thrust = 324,000 meters in that length of time.

My spreadsheet-fu is like unto Daniel-san's knowledge of karate before Miyagi-sensei's training. We'll call it poor to be generous. :coffeesip:

Thanks for that heads-up McPerth, looking now.

If I do use vector movement it will be on the computer, one way or another. Depends on whether or not that I learn either sketchup or a spreadsheet. Any easy to learn free spreadsheets out there? Using Win10, if it matters.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

If you accelerate at a constant 1 G with 360 s rounds, you get something like this:

       Position       Speed
 0         0 km     0,0 km/s
 1       648 km     3,6 km/s
 2     2 592 km     7,2 km/s
 3     5 832 km    10,8 km/s
 4    10 368 km    14,4 km/s
 5    16 200 km    18,0 km/s
 6    23 328 km    21,6 km/s
 7    31 752 km    25,2 km/s
 8    41 472 km    28,8 km/s
 9    52 488 km    32,4 km/s
10    64 800 km    36,0 km/s

Note that Position = total distance travelled increases faster and faster, whereas your Speed = Velocity vector increases the same amount each turn.

"1G of thrust = 324,000 meters" makes no sense to me. You are probably right, but I think you are saying it wrong? The number is exactly half of my calculated 648 km, so you are not wrong, just expressing it so I do not understand you?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Any easy to learn free spreadsheets out there? Using Win10, if it matters.

LibreOffice? I haven't used it, so can't tell you how easy it is, but it's free and I have heard it recommended.

 

[Spartan159]

If you accelerate at a constant 1 G with 360 s rounds, you get something like this:

       Position       Speed
 0         0 km     0,0 km/s
 1       648 km     3,6 km/s
 2     2 592 km     7,2 km/s
 3     5 832 km    10,8 km/s
 4    10 368 km    14,4 km/s
 5    16 200 km    18,0 km/s
 6    23 328 km    21,6 km/s
 7    31 752 km    25,2 km/s
 8    41 472 km    28,8 km/s
 9    52 488 km    32,4 km/s
10    64 800 km    36,0 km/s

Note that Position = total distance travelled increases faster and faster, whereas your Speed = Velocity vector increases the same amount each turn.

"1G of thrust = 324,000 meters" makes no sense to me. You are probably right, but I think you are saying it wrong? The number is exactly half of my calculated 648 km, so you are not wrong, just expressing it so I do not understand you?

No, you are right. I was using the formula from TTB, distance in meters = acceleration times time in seconds squared divided by 4. I went back and looked, and it says right there at the beginning of the paragraph that the formulae assume constant acceleration to midpoint, turnaround and constant deceleration to arrive at the destination at rest.

Also it turns out I do have a spreadsheet, OpenOffice Calc, I just never used it. Good grief, more stuff to learn.

 

[flykiller]

Am I going about this all wrong?

no, a 1g basis for movement is correct. did the same thing here.

 

[Enoki]

For small ship battles (ones with two or three ships) I really prefer the old CT vector system using a "mo board."

Just set the scale to fit the situation and input the vectors. The firing solutions are one measurement away...

Plus you can give all sorts of great sounding information to players like "The enemy ship bears x degrees off your starboard side at a range of..."

If a planet is involved it can be added in easily with a compass at the correct location, and even gravity bands if necessary. You can then add that vector to movement in a virtual instant.

 

[Spartan159]

For small ship battles (ones with two or three ships) I really prefer the old CT vector system using a "mo board."

Just set the scale to fit the situation and input the vectors. The firing solutions are one measurement away...

Plus you can give all sorts of great sounding information to players like "The enemy ship bears x degrees off your starboard side at a range of..."

If a planet is involved it can be added in easily with a compass at the correct location, and even gravity bands if necessary. You can then add that vector to movement in a virtual instant.

That looks interesting.

 

[Enoki]

That looks interesting.

It really works incredibly well, and is very fast once you understand the accompanying nomograms and how to plot on one.

http://boatswainsmate.net/BM/MOBOARDS.pdf

So long as you are only dealing with a two dimensional battle it works great.

Best, you can even let the players see the board in progress as you resolve movement. And, you get a nice visual record of the action.

 

[Spartan159]

Looking at that now.

 

[whartung]

I think this would be interesting to see a short video of in action.

 

[Enoki]

I could easily run a fight between 3 or ships on one (3 ships make a plain, more start getting into 3D ). Add a planet for interest if you like.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

You lied!

It really works incredibly well, and is very fast once you understand the accompanying nomograms and how to plot on one.

http://boatswainsmate.net/BM/MOBOARDS.pdf

So long as you are only dealing with a two dimensional battle it works great.

Best, you can even let the players see the board in progress as you resolve movement. And, you get a nice visual record of the action.

That link does not go to a useful PDF. It goes to a PDF of a set of presentation slides. Boo-hiss!

Is there an actual readable version of the "mo board" and some not presentation docs?

I mean it looks cool and neat but so far I can't even make this out at all.