Vehicle Armor in books 1-3 personal combat

[clementk]

So how have folks handled party level vehicle combat in CT? Both vehicle armor and damage from and to vehicles. Is this covered in some JTAS article or something?

I'm sure it had to come up at some point. With weapons like lasers, RAM grenades, FGMP/PGMP, and the artillery and other Book 4 goodies some PC with delusions of grandeur or a good plan must have tried to knock out a car, g-carrier, or air-raft. IIRC most vehicular weapons are already statted for damage and vs. personal armor in the above books. Is there some sort of conversion for the other vehicular weapons in one of the Striker books?

I'm looking for something that either fits into CT books 1-3 as is or with minimal adjustments, like usable with the Challenge or Paul Elliot's task systems. I do not want to have to convert everything and play a game of Striker just for a round or two of party level combat.

- Casey still looking for One Divine Hammer

based on a post in the D6 vs. D20 thread (link)

(thread title nod to the Armour in book 2 starship combat thread)

 

[clementk]

So how have folks handled party level vehicle combat in CT? Both vehicle armor and damage from and to vehicles. Is this covered in some JTAS article or something?

I'm sure it had to come up at some point. With weapons like lasers, RAM grenades, FGMP/PGMP, and the artillery and other Book 4 goodies some PC with delusions of grandeur or a good plan must have tried to knock out a car, g-carrier, or air-raft. IIRC most vehicular weapons are already statted for damage and vs. personal armor in the above books. Is there some sort of conversion for the other vehicular weapons in one of the Striker books?

I'm looking for something that either fits into CT books 1-3 as is or with minimal adjustments, like usable with the Challenge or Paul Elliot's task systems. I do not want to have to convert everything and play a game of Striker just for a round or two of party level combat.

- Casey still looking for One Divine Hammer

based on a post in the D6 vs. D20 thread (link)

(thread title nod to the Armour in book 2 starship combat thread)

 

[Golan2072]

Scaling damage, that is, converting LBBs 1-4 personal/vehicle weapon damage to actual damage to vehicles and starships, is one of the main issues I have with CT; you beat me up to posting a thread about it

Anyway, DA2 (Mission to Mithril & Across the Bright Face) has rules about ATV damage; Andy Slack's page has some semi-house rules (in "Rants, Rouges and Rules") about vehicle combat. I personally don't like both versions very much, but they are something to build on.

 

[Golan2072]

Scaling damage, that is, converting LBBs 1-4 personal/vehicle weapon damage to actual damage to vehicles and starships, is one of the main issues I have with CT; you beat me up to posting a thread about it

Anyway, DA2 (Mission to Mithril & Across the Bright Face) has rules about ATV damage; Andy Slack's page has some semi-house rules (in "Rants, Rouges and Rules") about vehicle combat. I personally don't like both versions very much, but they are something to build on.

 

[The Oz]

I always just winged it, basing my decisions on the established weapon ratings. I figured that light vehicles (ground cars, air/rafts) had protection like cloth, while ATVs were heavier, and AFV/G-carriers were the heaviest of all.

Once AHL/STRIKER came out it was all easier.

 

[The Oz]

I always just winged it, basing my decisions on the established weapon ratings. I figured that light vehicles (ground cars, air/rafts) had protection like cloth, while ATVs were heavier, and AFV/G-carriers were the heaviest of all.

Once AHL/STRIKER came out it was all easier.

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by The Oz:
I always just winged it, basing my decisions on the established weapon ratings. I figured that light vehicles (ground cars, air/rafts) had protection like cloth, while ATVs were heavier, and AFV/G-carriers were the heaviest of all.

Once AHL/STRIKER came out it was all easier.

Same here.
One way you could do it would be to create a hit table for each vehicle and assign damage values.
For example: wheeled AFV (roll 1d6)
1-2: suspension, armor as cloth, 12 hits
3: engine, armor as battledress, 6 hits
4-5: crew compartment, armor as battledress
6: turret, armor as battledress, 10 hits

any system reduced to 0 hits is inoperative
Other modifiers:
Vehicle size as a target: +2
moving slow: -1
moving fast: -2

AHL and Striker are much more elegant ways to handle vehicles. Some of the early JTAS had vehicle stats referenced to AHL. I can't remember any strictly Book 1 rules, though.

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by The Oz:
I always just winged it, basing my decisions on the established weapon ratings. I figured that light vehicles (ground cars, air/rafts) had protection like cloth, while ATVs were heavier, and AFV/G-carriers were the heaviest of all.

Once AHL/STRIKER came out it was all easier.

Same here.
One way you could do it would be to create a hit table for each vehicle and assign damage values.
For example: wheeled AFV (roll 1d6)
1-2: suspension, armor as cloth, 12 hits
3: engine, armor as battledress, 6 hits
4-5: crew compartment, armor as battledress
6: turret, armor as battledress, 10 hits

any system reduced to 0 hits is inoperative
Other modifiers:
Vehicle size as a target: +2
moving slow: -1
moving fast: -2

AHL and Striker are much more elegant ways to handle vehicles. Some of the early JTAS had vehicle stats referenced to AHL. I can't remember any strictly Book 1 rules, though.

 

[Golan2072]

I'd say that you should give the entire vehicle one armor type for the sake of simplicity; different armor types might be added for sniping players/called shots, however. Also, I'd prefer a more LBB-2 style damage chart than roll many dice (LBB-4 vehicle weapons do 20D+ of damage), with the damage level converted into penetration ALA Sigg Oddra's LBB-2 armor rules.

 

[Golan2072]

I'd say that you should give the entire vehicle one armor type for the sake of simplicity; different armor types might be added for sniping players/called shots, however. Also, I'd prefer a more LBB-2 style damage chart than roll many dice (LBB-4 vehicle weapons do 20D+ of damage), with the damage level converted into penetration ALA Sigg Oddra's LBB-2 armor rules.

 

[mike wightman]

I used a system cobbled together from DA2, Supplement 7, and Mercenary.

Light armoured vehicle - treat as battle dress to hit, 24 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

Medium armoured vehicles - treat as battle dress +1 to hit, 48 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

Heavy armoured vehicles - treat as battle dress +2 to hit, 72 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

Very heavy armoured vehicles/spacecraft - treat as battle dress +3 to hit, 120 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

 

[mike wightman]

I used a system cobbled together from DA2, Supplement 7, and Mercenary.

Light armoured vehicle - treat as battle dress to hit, 24 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

Medium armoured vehicles - treat as battle dress +1 to hit, 48 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

Heavy armoured vehicles - treat as battle dress +2 to hit, 72 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

Very heavy armoured vehicles/spacecraft - treat as battle dress +3 to hit, 120 points of damage to penetrate and cause internal damage, otherwise surface damage only

 

[Golan2072]

I think that high-dice-count weapons (10D+) used againstvehicles should do (for convinience sake) fixed damage.

 

[Golan2072]

I think that high-dice-count weapons (10D+) used againstvehicles should do (for convinience sake) fixed damage.

 

[mike wightman]

I think I factored in blast radius as well, somehow, for the heavy weapons in Mercenary.

 

[mike wightman]

I think I factored in blast radius as well, somehow, for the heavy weapons in Mercenary.

 

[clementk]

Thanks so far! I'll take a look over these suggestions and some JTAS articles from the first compilation (all I have so far) soon.

In the meantime though I really don't want to purchase the Games reprint just to compare what’s likely just a paragraph or two in AHL/Striker. I can purchase Striker used for fairly cheap but no way for the AHL rules I'm guessing.

I do have the other versions of the Traveller rulesets. Are the rules from AHL/Striker in any of those books verbatim* or easily modifiable? Are these rules snippets already available somewhere online and if not would posting them be considered ok under fair use? IMO they’d likely be under a page but I lost my Striker rules and never have had the AHL rules.

* I've heard MT esp. is like this

 

[clementk]

Thanks so far! I'll take a look over these suggestions and some JTAS articles from the first compilation (all I have so far) soon.

In the meantime though I really don't want to purchase the Games reprint just to compare what’s likely just a paragraph or two in AHL/Striker. I can purchase Striker used for fairly cheap but no way for the AHL rules I'm guessing.

I do have the other versions of the Traveller rulesets. Are the rules from AHL/Striker in any of those books verbatim* or easily modifiable? Are these rules snippets already available somewhere online and if not would posting them be considered ok under fair use? IMO they’d likely be under a page but I lost my Striker rules and never have had the AHL rules.

* I've heard MT esp. is like this

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by Casey:
In the meantime though I really don't want to purchase the Games reprint just to compare what’s likely just a paragraph or two in AHL/Striker. I can purchase Striker used for fairly cheap but no way for the AHL rules I'm guessing.

The Classic Games reprint has Striker, AHL, Snapshot, Mayday and a bunch more. For my money, it's a good buy.
As for snippets, I don't know if there are any available, but the system is fairly simple. There's a "to hit" roll which takes in shooter skill, range, speed, etc, followed by a penetration roll. Each weapon is assigned a penetration value which is reduced by range. This is compared to the armor value of the target.
The same type of system is used in MT and Striker.
And FWIW, (insert shameless plug here) if you like Book 1 combat, you should really take a look at Snapshot!, also available in the reprint. The action sequence (adopted into AHL) is a really good way to regulate combat actions and the rules for shooting through a bulkhead can be easily adapted to vehicle armor.

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by Casey:
In the meantime though I really don't want to purchase the Games reprint just to compare what’s likely just a paragraph or two in AHL/Striker. I can purchase Striker used for fairly cheap but no way for the AHL rules I'm guessing.

The Classic Games reprint has Striker, AHL, Snapshot, Mayday and a bunch more. For my money, it's a good buy.
As for snippets, I don't know if there are any available, but the system is fairly simple. There's a "to hit" roll which takes in shooter skill, range, speed, etc, followed by a penetration roll. Each weapon is assigned a penetration value which is reduced by range. This is compared to the armor value of the target.
The same type of system is used in MT and Striker.
And FWIW, (insert shameless plug here) if you like Book 1 combat, you should really take a look at Snapshot!, also available in the reprint. The action sequence (adopted into AHL) is a really good way to regulate combat actions and the rules for shooting through a bulkhead can be easily adapted to vehicle armor.