Vote Your Canon #1: Empty Hex Jumps (consensus: YES)

[Enoki]

A jump is a jump. In my interpretation of how jumps work you are 'falling' into a gravity well that pulls you to the destination point. Think of it as stretching the fabric of space. If you want to jump into an empty hex, go for it. Better bring extra fuel if you plan on leaving...

 

[Vargr Breath]

A jump is a jump. In my interpretation of how jumps work you are 'falling' into a gravity well that pulls you to the destination point. Think of it as stretching the fabric of space. If you want to jump into an empty hex, go for it. Better bring extra fuel if you plan on leaving...

I think in Traveller 2300 you had to have a gravity well for jumps. I don't remember that in Traveller. It is a good explanation on how a jump might work. But with this wouldn't you only mis-jump into a system with a gravity well?

 

[Blue Ghost]

The rationale would be that if you have (for example) a J-1 ship and you need to get to a destination that is 2pc away that does not have an occupied hex in between, if you have the fuel (either thru additional internal standard fuel tankage or a de-mountable or collapsible tank installed in the cargo hold), how difficult is it to do?

Sure, but that strikes me as "having fuel to get back", only in the direction you were travelling. I don't see an issue with it. In fact I think one or more of my groups probably did what you described.

 

[bookwyrm]

T20 allows for jumping into & out of an empty hex by increasing the Difficulty Check for the Astrogator. if you use the same coordinates in the empty hex enough times (ask your GM), it becomes a common location to jump to and you get a lower DC. the DC is pretty stiff, so you would want an experienced Astrogator, unless you're in a hurry for some reason.

 

[Blue Ghost]

A jump is a jump. In my interpretation of how jumps work you are 'falling' into a gravity well that pulls you to the destination point. Think of it as stretching the fabric of space. If you want to jump into an empty hex, go for it. Better bring extra fuel if you plan on leaving...

Ah, but regular standard Classic 3rd Imperium Traveller has controlled jumps. You still have the "grav well" effect, but only in terms of needing to get away from a mass to make a smooth non mis-jump.

I used to see 2300 on the game store racks throughout the late 80s and throughout the 90s, but never played it. But I did buy some of the books because I thought the gear and vehicles were pretty cool.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Ah, but regular standard Classic 3rd Imperium Traveller has controlled jumps. You still have the "grav well" effect, but only in terms of needing to get away from a mass to make a smooth non mis-jump.

I used to see 2300 on the game store racks throughout the late 80s and throughout the 90s, but never played it. But I did buy some of the books because I thought the gear and vehicles were pretty cool.

The 2300 system was closer to Twilight 2000 then Traveller. But your right, some of the gear and vehicles were cool and the Kafer were interesting aliens. I kind of liked the near star map also.

 

[Condottiere]

If there's less a chance of bumping into something large in an empty hex, it should be safer to jump into one.

 

[Enoki]

I think in Traveller 2300 you had to have a gravity well for jumps. I don't remember that in Traveller. It is a good explanation on how a jump might work. But with this wouldn't you only mis-jump into a system with a gravity well?

The way I see the process, given the 100d requirement to be outside of a planet's or other body's gravity is that only micro gravity can be present when jumping as the presence of a second strong gravity source would cause the well opened for the jump to distort and cause a misjump. This can be compensated for by a skilled pilot, navigator, and engineer who can manually adjust the automatic programming used for jumps.

 

[kilemall]

Minor quibbley correction- in 2300 gravity wells were not necessary for jump propagation or termination. Instead they were necessary to bleed off radiation before the stutterwarp drive irradiated ship and crew. This allowed for the 7.7 LY limit that preserved the spiderweb choke point aspect of most GDW star maps.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Minor quibbley correction- in 2300 gravity wells were not necessary for jump propagation or termination. Instead they were necessary to bleed off radiation before the stutterwarp drive irradiated ship and crew. This allowed for the 7.7 LY limit that preserved the spiderweb choke point aspect of most GDW star maps.

Yep, your right I remember that now. You could jump and enter an empty hex you just couldn't live through it.

 

[coliver988]

If there's less a chance of bumping into something large in an empty hex, it should be safer to jump into one.

My thinking (and I do allow empty hex jumps) is that there is not a target per se to jump to. A system that has a nice gravity well in it, bending spacetime, makes for an easier target. An empty hex does not have anything appreciable, so targeting is more complicated. With the caveat that it only really matters if you need to find something specific there (i.e., fuel depot, "empty hex station" or something else without a significant mass). If it is just a stopover due to the limits of your jump drive, anywhere near the center is good. Not centered, and your next jump may be short. Such as in the Oot cloud short. Hence the greater risk.

 

[kilemall]

My thinking (and I do allow empty hex jumps) is that there is not a target per se to jump to. A system that has a nice gravity well in it, bending spacetime, makes for an easier target. An empty hex does not have anything appreciable, so targeting is more complicated. With the caveat that it only really matters if you need to find something specific there (i.e., fuel depot, "empty hex station" or something else without a significant mass). If it is just a stopover due to the limits of your jump drive, anywhere near the center is good. Not centered, and your next jump may be short. Such as in the Oot cloud short. Hence the greater risk.

Oort clouds have some issues independent of whatever jump difficulties one gens up for them.

You REALLY REALLY want to KNOW that ice refueling is there if you aren't carrying your own.

That means you either found it, unlikely but prized if it's 'unknown', or you were told/stole/given the coordinates. Which means, it's not really a secret.

And that brings us to 100D of little ice chunks is a VERY SHORT DISTANCE by any Traveller version standard. 10 km ice, 1000km range. Ugly.

You can be surprised at point blank range by someone jumping into what you thought/bought was an exclusive resource. Or you do the jumping and receive the surprise. Or both are surprised. An exercise in some fast talking if things aren't going to go deep space marooned.

How do you feel about an Enemy Mine scenario around screwing each other up at an ice watering hole out in nowhere?

Works both ways of course, most anyone can shove off within a minute or three and be at jump radius. Better shoot fast and straight if it is an ambush.

 

[Spinward Flow]

If there's less a chance of bumping into something large in an empty hex, it should be safer to jump into one.

Except ... that isn't always the case.
There might not be stars there ... but there can be things worse than stars to be found there ...

Deadspace

When is an empty hex (on the map) ... NOT AN EMPTY HEX ...?
Just because there isn't a light source there, doesn't mean there's "nothing there" at all ...

 

[mike wightman]

Interesting but the author(s) doesn't understand dark energy...

 

[Straybow]

Who says a star (or whatever) in a hex is in the middle? A "parsec" in Traveller isn't a scientific parsec, more a "barely over one significant digit" value with lots of wiggle room. It can get you from anywhere in this hex to anywhere in a neighboring hex, without distinction. It's an artifact of the 2D map.

 

[Condottiere]

Having a gravity well as a target brings up a number of quandaries.

If you need that gravitational anchor to activate the jump drive, is it in real time?

Or is it more a form of GPS?

 

[Deldarius]

Is an "empty hex" really empty? Or, is it more of the case of having a lack of a system profile to generate a quality jump solution? If you don't know, should you go?

How good are your star charts? Jump tapes can fill in gaps in your records and the generate program would help (once you have a sufficiently complete data set to work with.

Most ships will stay in the trade lanes, murder hobo's notwithstanding.

This is why you have a navigator. If you are going to go off roading, better bring your compass.*


Maybe someone had certain systems scrubbed from the charts for some reason? Hey, why red zone a system when you can black hole it. Red Zones are listed on the charts for your safety. Go nosing around the wrong system, you can find youself in a precarious position with say, the Navy for example.

"Pardon me citizen, how did you come about this place? Seriously? You lie like a K'kree rug. Now was it intentional or is your navigator a total putz? Either way, since this place does not exist...neither do you".



Isn't it a part of the Scouts Exploration branch's job to go into the unknown and map out systems? Even megacorps have their own people to find the next big thing. You can't write those Trip Advisor reports unless you get into the weeds of the locale, can you? Those stellar tourist traps, hazards and WTF's need to get poked at and logged at some point.



*Moral compass not included.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Maybe someone had certain systems scrubbed from the charts for some reason? Hey, why red zone a system when you can black hole it.

Stars are a little bit difficult to hide.

(Unless you're Grandfather -- then you can just stuff them into a pocket universe.)



An empty system would be X[size, atm, hyd]000-0, not an empty hex.
You could arrange to have it mis-recorded as "X000000-0, no gas giant, no bases" (to hide that there's an actual interesting world in the hex), but there'll be a "world" there because there's a star present.

If there are indeed planets (especially gas giants), they can be detected from at least the adjacent hex -- and with good telescopes and/or multiple observations from different hexes, much farther than that.

... if anyone looks for them.

 

[Condottiere]

After how many millenia of interstellar travel by both the Terrans and the Vilani, every hex, empty or not, between their two home worlds should have been completely chartered by now, not to mention systems who very likely have updated the maps of their localities.

So it's either a technical reason you can't jump into an empty hex, or because there be Void Dragons.

 

[Deldarius]

If you were to "mislabel" a system you wouldn't do it to one on the beaten path.

A few hexes away fron a claas d (at best) starport should be far enough out to blend into the background. The nearest system could be a red zone, which may put the "empty" hex far enough away to all but the players.

They are the only ones fiscally crazy enough to spend the resources to look.