Weapon maintenance

[nats]

One thing that doesnt formally appear in Classic Traveller, but is hinted at in the Mech and Elect skills, is weapon maintenance.

I use a rule where all weapons must be maintained at least once a day for guns, or once a week for blades, or risk failure. If you miss a required maintenance then you must throw 2D whenever the weapon is used, and on a 12+ you get a failure (with DM of +1 per day (guns) or week (blades) of missed maintenance. Maintenance requires stripping down and cleaning (1 hour). Failure means repair by someone with mech or elect skills depending on weapon type. OR, on a throw of 12 exactly, the weapon requires full replacement and is too damaged to repair. This can be used for any type of weapon whether gun or blade. Book 1 mentions the purchase of weapon mantainance and cleaning kits on page 42.

I see this as adding a lot of interesting role play to the use of weapons, especially in situations where weapon replacement is not very easy to come by such as in the wilderness. It will for certain make the Brawling skill and use of Cudgels come into play a bit more I feel.

Could even be extended into the use of spaceship weapons as well, although I suppose this would be covered in the general ships maintenance?

Dont know what you lot think?

 

[aramis]

One problem... firearms don't really require daily maintenance unless discharged. Weekly cleaning on an unfired carry piece.

 

[skyth]

And that is firearms. As tech levels have gone up on projectile weapons, I believe that the neccessary cleanings have gone down.

Laser weapons and gauss weapons likely wouldn't need the amount of cleaning that firearms require also, if they need cleaning at all.

 

[far-trader]

I've always ignored maintenance issues on personal weapons, it's part of the skill (even the default level-0 is sufficient) and taken care of in downtime imo. If damage happens then there is a chance of misfire, out of alignment sights, etc. that will require some actual skill, tools, and time to correct.

 

[shadowcat20]

I always figured if you had a gun skill of 1 you always took care of your weapons. On a 2 or higher you not only took Good care of them but could fix things that failed (Springs, screws, stock, the like). On a 3 or better you could qualify as an armorer and get into some level 3 maintenence (Rebarrel, New sights, modify sears, ect)

Most of us gun nuts take care of our toys, the bigger the nut the more time we spend on them.....

 

[Sturn]

Firearm skill should include routine maintenance and skill, but I wouldn't go so far as it including armorer-level abilities. That seems like another skill to me. I know many excellent shooters that know near nothing about how to fix even minor problems with their weapons.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Just like a 'self-cleaning oven', as Tech Levels go up, weapons could naturally get a 'self-maintenance' option. Or they could just be designed very very well, like the AK-47 - durable so as not to need maintenance.

 

[far-trader]

...Or they could just be designed very very well, like the AK-47 - durable so as not to need maintenance.

Heh, my understanding of the AK-47 is not so much that it is very very well designed* and durable as made to such low tolerances that you really can't make it any worse (or better) by neglecting maintenance (or performing it) but it gets the job done (the job for which it was designed) satisfactorily. It has trade-offs of course for this ease of deployment.

* at least not in the sense of exacting perfection, but in the sense of suited to the needs it is indeed

 

[Spinward Scout]

Heh, my understanding of the AK-47 is not so much that it is very very well designed* and durable as made to such low tolerances that you really can't make it any worse (or better) by neglecting maintenance (or performing it) but it gets the job done (the job for which it was designed) satisfactorily. It has trade-offs of course for this ease of deployment.

* at least not in the sense of exacting perfection, but in the sense of suited to the needs it is indeed

I had always heard that you could drop an AK-47 in a lake for 5 years and it would still come out in working condition. That's why all the terrorists want them. I also have heard that the thing never jams, even in sand. Unlike the M-16. Leave it to the U.S. Army to find a new use for condoms over in the Middle East (it keeps the sand out the gun barrels).



Americans are known for having military gear built by the lowest bidder, whereas the Russians (former Soviets) had to deal with being sent off to Siberia or worse if they built something substandard.

 

[aramis]

Just like a 'self-cleaning oven', as Tech Levels go up, weapons could naturally get a 'self-maintenance' option. Or they could just be designed very very well, like the AK-47 - durable so as not to need maintenance.

Heh, my understanding of the AK-47 is not so much that it is very very well designed* and durable as made to such low tolerances that you really can't make it any worse (or better) by neglecting maintenance (or performing it) but it gets the job done (the job for which it was designed) satisfactorily. It has trade-offs of course for this ease of deployment.

* at least not in the sense of exacting perfection, but in the sense of suited to the needs it is indeed

The SKS is to the same basic tolerances. The one my roommate bought was a russian made one, and he got it still in the cosmoline-equivalent. It fired a 1" shot group at 50m... and a 2" at 100m... for the first stripper-clip load.

It needed cleaning just like another buddy's M14... when fired, or when taken out for use.

It rapidly lost accuracy with cheap ammo, as it fouled.

The manual did note that flushing the barrel with water and firing a couple blanks should return the weapon to function after getting mud in it...

But ths SKS and AK47 both are well designed... they can and do operate when worn better tha modern M16's... and are MUCH easier to clean

 

[nats]

I've always ignored maintenance issues on personal weapons, it's part of the skill (even the default level-0 is sufficient) and taken care of in downtime imo. If damage happens then there is a chance of misfire, out of alignment sights, etc. that will require some actual skill, tools, and time to correct.

I am not sure that just always assuming they clean their weapon is sufficient. Otherwise you will also no doubt always assume they eat at regular times and sleep when they need to? OK this may be sufficient when they are on a ship where food and time is not important but when food/water/time is tight then eating drinking and sleeping becomes a more crucial roleplaying device.

So similarly cleaning a gun may be able to be assumed for a lot of the time, but I would have thought a failure throw when combat commences should be required after a bad environment has been encountered, or when the characters have been immersed in water, or subjected to excess heat or cold for example. Similarly when firing on full auto that might be another time to roll for failure if the weapon has not been cleaned recently or operated by a skilled person.

I suppose it could be seen as something that could be implemented as a gameplay device if/when the conditions dictate.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Should players be required to role play personal maintenance all of the time? Bathing, bathroom several times a day, comb hair, trim nails, makeup, shaving? If they don't describe brushing their teeth every day should there be a roll to see if they get a cavity and toothache?

Maybe someone might want to role play being a slob or a neat freak. It is totally up to the players and GM to decide what they enjoy role playing. I wouldn't assume a character isn't doing proper daily hygiene just because the player doesn't role play it.

I see this as adding a lot of interesting role play

GM: Your character is sleeping in their stateroom when they are suddenly awoken by emergency alarms and flashing lights.
Player: "I run to the bridge to see what is wrong."
GM: The captain looks at you crossly and yells "Go put some cloths on crewman!"
Player: wait, wait, my character quickly got dressed THEN ran to the bridge.
GM: ok, hold on a minute
Putting on socks. Roll
Putting on shoes. Roll fails.
Consult table.
1 Shoes on wrong feet
2 Right shoe too loose
3 Left shoe too loose
4 Right shoe not tied
5 Left shoe not tied
6 Shoes don't match
Roll 5
Roll to see if something happens because of untied shoe. Roll fails.
Roll to see what happened.
Putting on pants. Roll
Putting on shirt. Roll fails. Consult table.

Your left shoe was untied in your haste to dress. You trip while running to the bridge but you regain your balance before you fall. You get to the bridge and one of the other crewmen points at your chest and giggles. Looking down, you see that your shirt is on inside out.

The ship is under attack by a larger, better armed ship but somehow you get lucky and damage their engines and get away. Now, for luck, the captain requires you to wear your shirt inside out in any emergency.
- - -

Setting: Jane, a mechanic working on equipment. Instead of just making one roll for the repair...
GM: There are 8 bolts to the access panel. I'll roll for each one to see if any of them are seized.
Roll
Roll
Roll
Roll
Roll
Roll
Roll
Roll (Do you want to roll every time a bolt or screw needs to be tightened or loosened?)
Ok, one is seized.
Jane: I'll use the ships intercom to get John. He's really strong. Maybe he can get it loose.
(after John arrives)
Jane: "Hi John. Could you try and loosen this bolt for me?"
John: "That's all you need? I was hoping this was a booty call." Frowns "Alright, give me the wrench."
Roll
GM: The head of the bolt snaps off.
Jane: "Dang it! Jack lost our only bolt extractor earlier today and I won't be able to work on this until the new one arrives tomorrow."
John: "So, got a little free time on our hands." Lustful grin "What do you think we should do?"
- - -

While it could lead to funny or memorable moments, it's probably too cumbersome for every little thing to be rolled for.

Summery: I personally wouldn't worry about gun maintenance under normal circumstances but under extreme conditions I might
1) make a general mishap roll as determined necessary and use the appropriate character skill as a DM to represent the characters efforts without the player having to role play the details
or
2) if while doing a normal task check there is an exceptional failure maybe decide there is a maintenance issue

Personally I see no reason to come up with detailed charts and tables for each weapon to determine it's individual maintenance requirements and then you would probably also need to keep an inventory of resources needed to do maintenance and how quickly they are used up and so on.

If there is a situation where equipment is being heavily used and the ability to perform maintenance due to resources, time, or training is not available I'd think more than just weapons are being neglected. Perhaps looking at rules for an armageddon style RPG would be helpful?

 

[shadowcat20]

Ammo quality could be another issue with weapon malfunctions.

Take an average Auto rifle using a standard 7.62 x 51 cartridge.

On a tech 5 world the round could have corrosive primers and a powder that leaves a heavy residue in the barrel.

At tech 7 the same round has non corrosive primers and a cleaner burning powder

At tech 10 the round has a ultra clean primer and a powder charge that not only burns clean but is self cleaning and leaves a thin film of lube in the barrel.

Same round but 3 different results based on local manufacture and tech level.

This also leaves some role playing issues. Does the character take the Tl 5 Steel cased, blue primer, fouling stuff on an important mission, or does he use the Brass cased, green primer, high tech stuff.

Ok Bill, what type of ammo have you got and how much did you bring?

Blue primer?...Ok after your first fire round roll 8+ for a jam....:devil:

 

[nats]

Should players be required to role play personal maintenance ...snip ..too cumbersome for every little thing to be rolled for.

Now thats just being daft :-/

Merc Book 4 touches on jams etc for the LMG so its seems natural to extend the mechanism to other guns.

Although it would seem natural that those players from military careers would keep their weapons spotless and fully functional, those from other careers such as diplomats or scouts would probably not be entirely dedicated to a proper maintenance regime so may get negative DMs

Typical rolls could be made under the following circumstance with DMs as appropriate:

Water immersion
Substandard ammo
Heavy continuous automatic fire
Corrosive atmospheres
Banging the weapons when climbing/jumping etc
Dust/sand
Lack of maintenance by untrained owners over a long period of time (personally I would think anyone with less than a skill level of 1)
Obtaining cheap weapons from dodgy sources or black markets on low tech worlds
Previous failures may provide cumulative DMs to future rolls

I would have thought one roll would be sufficient to indicate a failure will happen sometime, & to someone in the group over future combat periods until cleaned/repaired.

At the end of the day its, like everything else that is vaguely touched on in the rules, an item that the referee could chose to call on when the situation could be made more interesting by using a breaking/failing weapon roll.

 

[Sturn]

Leave it to the U.S. Army to find a new use for condoms over in the Middle East (it keeps the sand out the gun barrels).

For historic accuracy, I believe that started at least as early as WW2.

 

[Dragoner]

Yes, with the English fighting in Norway, I hear they printed on them "Made in England, medium size."

 

[ShapeShifter]

On one hand, I used to play a d20-based fantasy game where weapon maintenance was part of the gritty, borderline-simulationist atmosphere of the campaign. For some people that level of 'realism' helped them relate more to the everyday duties of their PCs. Neglecting that upkeep resulted in 'nicks' on blades, increased the chance of breakage, and so on.

After a time, I moved toward less-granular rule-systems and my philosophy has changed to embrace a simpler style of campaign design and play. Now I just think that these kinds of routines occur OC/OS (off-camera/off-stage), along with tedious or unpleasant tasks that any living thing must go through on a regular basis.

For example, we know that a cowboy in a Western is smart enough to keep his six-shooter in top working-condition. We didn't have to see this in every movie to know it was there in the background. Likewise his horse was watered and fed, but there was no need for the director to film these things because it slowed down the pace of the film.

 

[far-trader]

Merc Book 4 touches on jams etc for the LMG so its seems natural to extend the mechanism to other guns.

Not really. The issue with the LMG is I think that of any high rate of fire automatic weapon's potential to jam.

So, apply it to weapons being used in full autofire, perhaps. Weapons used in burst or single shot fire, not likely.

At the end of the day its, like everything else that is vaguely touched on in the rules, an item that the referee could chose to call on when the situation could be made more interesting by using a breaking/failing weapon roll.

Precisely

 

[sabredog]

One thing that doesnt formally appear in Classic Traveller, but is hinted at in the Mech and Elect skills, is weapon maintenance.

I use a rule where all weapons must be maintained at least once a day for guns, or once a week for blades, or risk failure. If you miss a required maintenance then you must throw 2D whenever the weapon is used, and on a 12+ you get a failure (with DM of +1 per day (guns) or week (blades) of missed maintenance. Maintenance requires stripping down and cleaning (1 hour). Failure means repair by someone with mech or elect skills depending on weapon type. OR, on a throw of 12 exactly, the weapon requires full replacement and is too damaged to repair. This can be used for any type of weapon whether gun or blade. Book 1 mentions the purchase of weapon mantainance and cleaning kits on page 42.

I see this as adding a lot of interesting role play to the use of weapons, especially in situations where weapon replacement is not very easy to come by such as in the wilderness. It will for certain make the Brawling skill and use of Cudgels come into play a bit more I feel.

Could even be extended into the use of spaceship weapons as well, although I suppose this would be covered in the general ships maintenance?

Dont know what you lot think?

Wouldn't all this sort of thing be what fills the Jump-week, anyway?

I just assume that given that there is going to be at least ONE ex-military PC in a game the PC's with firearms will have somebody to show them how to take 15 minutes or so to maintain their weapons. At least to do a job good enough to keep the weapon operating until a full breakdown can be down later.

And I include even the high-tech energy weapons and gauss rifles in this: they will need some kind of calibration and tuning to keep at optimal operation after the rough handling they get. Not so much a chore as just plugging the weapon into a hand comp with the needed (probably included in the purchase price - the software anyway) software to tune the weapon for a few minutes or it starts having issues of some kind. Might randomly fail due to a blown circuit or something...or the sights are off (always a good one to throw at the players as a reason why they get a random negative DM for each shot until they fix the gun).