mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Knife-missile anyone???
weapons' design and evolution thereof
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
While generally true for firearms at every TL, smaller bullets at hypersonic velocity could dramaticly increase magazine capacity and the G11 demonstrated the concept of multiple shots within a single recoil.
I suspect that we have only scratched the surface of recoil compensation. Slotted barrels and telescoping pistons could ultimately be augmented by Grav-belt technology. This would increase the maximum controlable energy and increase the damage for all firearms (either through larger hypersonic projectiles or much higher rates of fire.)
Bill Cameron; thanks for that. I was wondering if I wrote a piece of Traveller fiction would say a Desert Eagle look like a Desert Eagle, or pump shotgun look like a pump shotgun?
I've seen all the artwork in all versions of Traveller suggesting similar and disimilar designs. I guess ultmately it's up to each GM, but I wanted a basic starting point.
I've seen all the artwork in all versions of Traveller suggesting similar and disimilar designs. I guess ultmately it's up to each GM, but I wanted a basic starting point.
Blue,
Yes, up to a point. Form follows function.
Look at a Sopwith Camel, P-51 Mustang, and F-22 Raptor. Each use a thrust agency to move wings through the air and provide lift. If you squint hard, each looks the same as the other. The details are wildly different but the basic package remains the same.
Now, if the F-155 Whosis of the year 2100 uses contra-grav tech for lift, the form paradigm 'breaks' and fighters no longer look like fighters from WW1.
AT is right in pointing out we are only now beginning to address recoil compensation, but there is still a limit in place due to human bodies. We can 'stretch' recoil over time with compensators or 'compress' the recoil of multi-round bursts in a 'single kick'. We can even lessen recoil by venting propellents along the barrel (albeit at some loss of muzzle velocity). However, the humna frame still has to handle the recoil.
It's only when we 'break' the recoil paradigm with something like self-propelled projectiles that things will change. And not all that drastically, mind you.
The shape of human body also controls things like trigger placement, grips, how we aim, all sorts of ergonomic effects. That future gyrojet rifle may have absurdly high muzzle velocities, but a human still has to hold it, fire it, aim it, load it, and all the rest.
Getting back to you Desert Eagle. There are all sorts of gizmos we can slap on a revolver now and will strap on one in the future; laser assisted aiming, speed loaders, even gyro stabilizers. Underneath the hood however, that revolver still looks like a revolver. Wyatt Earp will recognise it for what it is. Just as Natty Bumpo will recognise the XM-8 as a rifle.
Have fun,
Bill
P.S. You'll notice that Traveller's PGMP and FGMP weapons - which should have horrific recoil problems - require the firer to wear battledress. The battledress helps handle the recoil.
Arthur Denger
SOC-12
The problem with self-propelled ammunition (the accelerator rifle) is low short range velocity. It takes time and distance to accelerate to killing velocity. A 12 gauge shotgun shell like dual function projectile that fires like a bullet at short range but is self-propelled and guided at long or extreme range might be the best of both worlds. In the OTU, accelerator weapons appear to be primarily a zero-G special use weapon.
A gauss launch system might also cure the short range weakness of self-propelled rounds.
A gauss launch system might also cure the short range weakness of self-propelled rounds.
Bill; that's kind of what my inclinations were, but I wasn't sure about the articulation. Thanks again.
Arthur; in another fiction piece (non-traveller) I had such ammunition.
atpollard; possibly.
Arthur; in another fiction piece (non-traveller) I had such ammunition.
atpollard; possibly.
Arthur Denger
SOC-12
Gauss weapon designs generally use saboted ammunition; the sabot is something that interacts strongly with a magnetic field, the projectile is not.
Even ignoring that, the energy requirement for a magnetic field is linear in volume. A shielding field is at least 100,000x the volume of a gauss rifle field.
Even ignoring that, the energy requirement for a magnetic field is linear in volume. A shielding field is at least 100,000x the volume of a gauss rifle field.
Remember, though, that the field doesn't need to be constantly on, but "pulsed" per round. It all depends on how much force is needed to be focused on the round (and what part of it; i.e. the nose, mid-section, or afterward) in order to pull/push it through the barrel and field, and out towards the intended target.
Myself, recalling loosely my university physics and first hand experience with magnets and magnetic fields, I don't recall said fields, even large ones, as having a large instantaneous pull. But maybe this has been worked out in the engineering of the weapon.
Myself, recalling loosely my university physics and first hand experience with magnets and magnetic fields, I don't recall said fields, even large ones, as having a large instantaneous pull. But maybe this has been worked out in the engineering of the weapon.
Not at all. Or not in the way you are thinking at least. Haemoglobin certainly has iron in it, but so do a lot of other compounds that don't interact significantly with magnetic fields.
I'd be more worried about cooking off grenades, and metal heating effects.
For a simple analogy, look what you can put in an MRI safely. Anything on that list will be fine near a strong magnetic field.
Originally posted by veltyen:
The kind of field Arthur was envisioning seemed to me more powerful by a few orders of magnitude ( magnit-tude get it!) than an MRI. If you shoot through the tunnel of an MRI I'm pretty sure the bullets are not going to deviate,(possibly ruin an expensive bit of medical imaging equipment though) but the EM field Arthur was talking about will pull them off course. Sort of like comparing a zippo lighter to an acytelene torch.
Arthur Denger
SOC-12
I also wonder what effect (if any), magnetic field technology would have if somehow employed to steer lasers. Perhaps it could be used to distort or disperse the containment fields used by plasma and fusion weapons. Could pulsed gravitics technology be employed in a battlefield screen of some nature? Do these weapons systems exist already?
But we're talking about hurling needles, not compressed gas containers... aren't we? 
Magnit-tude... ah
Magnit-tude... ah
Arthur Denger
SOC-12
Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
But we're talking about hurling needles, not compressed gas containers... aren't we?
The key word there is '3 kilogram'. Get a 3 kilogram object up to 20 m/s and it's moving at lethal velocity. Applying a 20 m/s delta-V to a gauss bullet has no meaningful effect on its lethality.Originally posted by Arthur hault-Denger:
I dunno. If a magnetic field 60 times greater than that of the nickel-iron core of a size 8 planet's can launch a 3 kilogram (6.5 pound) steel oxygen tank from the doorway of the MRI room to lethal velocity, I'd have to imagine it might have all sorts of other non-medical applications.
Arthur Denger
SOC-12
I think the engineering behind the gauss weapon, at least in a Traveller way, is that the magnetic fields that run along the barrel operate independently of one another, and are only active once the trigger is pulled. I think another implication of the engineering is that the fields are typically confined to the barrel, and do describe a large magnetic field extending much beyond the barrel of the weapon itself.
It's one of those handwavum things. If we start poking at the science of Gauss weapons, then we should probably do the same for grav drives and thrust plates
It's one of those handwavum things. If we start poking at the science of Gauss weapons, then we should probably do the same for grav drives and thrust plates
