What does this paragraph mean to you?

[TheEngineer]

Hey, hasnt anybody already done a spreadsheet for this stuff ?

Aramis:
Please give me just 10 MEuro

I will retire and try very hard to get along...

Regards,
Mert

 

[Commander Drax]

Returning to an earlier point, perhaps vehicle and starship prices are a bit high and need to be lowered.

I often think of the common pressuriesd air/raft a mere snip at Cr376,000 (in T20) and similar in all other versions (not sure about gurps though).

Who the hell could afford it. It doesnt seem reasonable to finance one of those over 40 years. Yet they fill the skies in Traveller cities. If its reasonable to conclude that the basic air/raft equates to a modern car, then owners would want to change them every few years or so and get the latest models etc. Long financing doesnt seem right, and leasing would be unecomical to say the least.

It's a bigger problem, who can afford to buy an air/raft?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually the cost isn't any more than it would cost to get there by a Jump-1 ship. It just takes less time and makes the J-2+ ships, from the owner's perspective, commercially competetive. (Profit margins run about the same, in proportion to the cost of the ship.)

As for price controls, either Government controls or Price fixing by the MegaCorps. (Which, given the Traveller history and the idea of the Imperium fostering commerce, makes equal sense.)

Originally posted by TheEngineer:
Bhoins, that sounds quite reasonable !

The hidden assumption is, that there are still enough people able to pay for higher ticket prices.
So we get the missing profit of the classical system from the customer market here, which is a kind of "unknown", but sort of "drainable" variable.

Would you regard the prices as government enforced ?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Aramis,
MT states that Cr250 per point of Soc is minimal. Spending Cr250 per point of Soc+1 per month raises your Soc, but can't grant you Noble Status or increase your Title. SO lets assume a Soc of 16 (ArchDuke) That works out at Cr4,000 per month. MCr50 would last, putting it in your mattress, no interest, 12,500 months or 961.5 years. With $50,000,000 I am sure I could find diversified, safe investments that pays me 10% after taxes. That is $5,000,000 per year and my daughter still gets to inherit $50,000,000.

In T20 a Duke is Soc 24. In T20 you can't buy soc increases. Cr250 per point of Soc in T20 is "living the high life." So living the high life for a Duke is Cr6,000 per month. Now your MCr50 only lasts 8,333 months or 641 years.

That is food, lodging, entertainment, etc

In CT it was a flat rate, and living well was only Cr900 per month.

Squander MCr1 on a Traveller's Aid membership and you can take a leisurely tour of the galaxy, in pure opulence through your Great Grandchildrens' lives.

Invest it at a mere 5% and you are making MCr2.5 per year. The Standard conversion is $3=Cr1. You would have a problem living on $7,500,000 per year?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Falkyn,
I didn't realize it would work with no passengers. WOW! Interesting. Passengers, volume wise are where the money is. Even low passengers travel at about Cr1,800 per ton. (Or 1.8 times freight rate.) High Passengers travel at about the same, when you take into account the Steward and the luggage allowance. And a Jump-3 ship optimized for passengers can't make its payments.

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by TheEngineer:
Hey, hasnt anybody already done a spreadsheet for this stuff ?

Aramis:
Please give me just 10 MEuro

I will retire and try very hard to get along...

Regards,
Mert

Ah, there's the rub, Mert...
You have to have three things to capitalize upon such a situation:
enough cash to buy the load in the first place
the cargo space to carry it to the...
Place what's paying more than 3:1 on your investment...

With careful media manipulation that is exactly what people HAVE been doing on both the stocks and futures markets.

I'd be happy to try to leverage your Euro0.1M into more, but *I* am *NOT* a good day trader.

As a system of rules, if you don't have the mandate of a monthly payment, a J2 can function quite nicely under the Bk2 and T20 rules. Recapitalization is a nicety, not a requirement, if you assume that many (not even most) tramp merchantment are more Homes than Buisinesses... Much like the frieghters in Enterprise are treated.

In fact, during the T20 playtest, the party took MCr0.1, rolled it on a Type R Subbie (Party sunk all their cash into making a patron proovided derilict functional) into MCr15. working the Aramis trace, using Bk2 T&C. Then the T20 tables hit us, and they proceeded to roll that MCr15 into a nestegg of MCr60 and a used Type A2, then roll on and BUY a used Type T, put the NPC's in charge of both the R and A2, both on "Subsidy Contracts" for the new skippers, and roll the remaining few MCr into MCr180, using the Type T, and it's measly cargo space. Broker beign maxed out is exactly what made the difference.. and NOT being tied to a route.

Being tied to a route would have denied them several important oportunities:
1) to go where the cargo had the best mods
2) to pick cargoes based upon successful trader rolls (to get 1st die for both ends)
3) to wait an extra week (in one case, because of a misjump, they lost their prediction die (which had been a six). So they did a prediction on the following week, replaceing the 3 rolled upon arrival (2 days past prediction expiry) with a 5; which on the major lot (90 tons) made the difference between possible loss and breakeven guaranteed.)

Anyone who doesn't use Broker 4's when they are available is either using a Broker 3+ PC or not firing on all cylinders... The profit differential is TOO great. (T20 actually narrowed the margins by broker level by using a 3d6 table rather than the traditional 2d6 Actual Value Table.)

Trader (as used in Bk7) does not exist in T20; the trader skill there is a different function. In part because of the power it provided during playtest. (But oh, my players loved it!) Predicting the 1st of two dice was (and IS) way too powerful. Predicting 1 of 3 dice is useful...

By doing away with this, T20 leveled the odds only slightly; the 3d6 table did far more.

But, as for prices: ops cost per ton for PURE CARGO designs with Mortagess should be the baseline for CARGO SHIPMENT COSTS. Passengers should be 4x this rate, HP 5x if the baggage allowance is actual displacement tons. (Which, BTW, has never actualy been answered in "Hard canon" rulesets; T20 made several changes (Reduced DO costs for both MP and HP, MCr6.5 and MCr8 respectively, per person.) T20 also reduces the costs of LS for MP and crew.

Sooo...by saving KCr0.25 per MP & crewman per week, a 10+ passenger load J2 begins to cross into profit without spec.

Here is a T20 J2 with a profit, making a payment AND needing no spec cargo. It needs to fill all of the HP and LP berths double occupancy:
200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J2 PP2 for 2 weeks, with a model 1/bis computer. Fuel Tankage of 42 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks. There are 22 Large Staterooms, providing for 5 crew, with the remainder for passengers. There are 26 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr74.6. Payments per month are KCr310.833, Salaries per month are KCr22.3, and Fuel costs are KCr21 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer, 2 Stewards, 0 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr246.025 and expected revenue of KCr250 for an expected profit of KCr3.975per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
An Air/Raft is carried. 5 tons are reserved for mail service.

Single occupancy, same SR:
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr217.025 and expected revenue of KCr169.5 for an expected profit of KCr-47.525per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.

Again, this only works for high-pop routes, where one can expect 10 passengers of so of each class, before skill adds.

All my figures assume 12 working/paying months of the 13 month year, plus one month down for maintenance, for a 48 week work year, plus a week travel to and from annual maintenance, and two weeks maintenance.

and the J1 versions:
200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J1 PP1 for 2 weeks, with a model 1/bis computer
Fuel Tankage of 21 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 22 Large Staterooms, providing for 5 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 51 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr60.6. Payments per month are KCr252.5, Salaries per month are KCr21, and Fuel costs are KCr10.5 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer,
1 Steward, 1 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 7/0 MP10/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr176.775 and expected revenue of KCr194.5 for an expected profit of KCr17.725per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
An Air/Raft is carried. 5 tons are reserved for mail service

and the DO results:
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/14 MP0/20 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr205.775 and expected revenue of KCr275 for an expected profit of KCr69.225per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
An Air/Raft is carried. 5 tons are reserved for mail service

Now the pure cargo variants:
200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J1 PP1 for 2 weeks, with a model 1/bis computer
Fuel Tankage of 21 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 3 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 136 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr50.5. Payments per month are KCr210.417, Salaries per month are KCr16, and Fuel costs are KCr10.5 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer,
0 Stewards, 0 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr123.3125 and expected revenue of KCr136 for an expected profit of KCr12.6875per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr906.70955882 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo

200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J2 PP2 for 2 weeks, with a model 1/bis computer
Fuel Tankage of 42 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 3 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 111 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr64.5. Payments per month are KCr268.75, Salaries per month are KCr16, and Fuel costs are KCr21 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer,
0 Stewards, 0 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr163.5625 and expected revenue of KCr111 for an expected profit of KCr-52.5625per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr1473.536036 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo

200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J3 PP3 for 2 weeks, with a model 2/bis computer
Fuel Tankage of 63 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 3 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 85 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr92.5. Payments per month are KCr385.417, Salaries per month are KCr16, and Fuel costs are KCr31.5 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer,
0 Stewards, 0 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr233.5625 and expected revenue of KCr85 for an expected profit of KCr-148.5625per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr2747.7941176 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo

200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J4 PP4 for 2 weeks, with a model 4 computer
Fuel Tankage of 84 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 3 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 58 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr118.5. Payments per month are KCr493.75, Salaries per month are KCr16, and Fuel costs are KCr42 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer,
0 Stewards, 0 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr299.3125 and expected revenue of KCr58 for an expected profit of KCr-241.3125per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr5160.5603448 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo

200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J5 PP5 for 2 weeks, with a model 5 computer
Fuel Tankage of 105 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 3 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 32 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr147.5. Payments per month are KCr614.583, Salaries per month are KCr16, and Fuel costs are KCr52.5 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer,
0 Stewards, 0 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr371.4375 and expected revenue of KCr32 for an expected profit of KCr-339.4375per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr11607.421875 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo

200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J6 PP6 for 2 weeks, with a model 6 computer
Fuel Tankage of 126 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 3 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 5 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr171.5. Payments per month are KCr714.583, Salaries per month are KCr16, and Fuel costs are KCr63 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 1 Engineer,
0 Stewards, 0 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr432.9375 and expected revenue of KCr5 for an expected profit of KCr-427.9375per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr86587.5 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo

To recapitulate the data of relevance (the ship descriptions are to show I'm NOT fudging, and should be sufficient to recreate. Note also, I used standard Bk7 computers, as I haven't updated the SS to full compliance... just econ. Computers and air-frames are about the only real differences, and these are NOT airframes.)

Nummbers are rounded up to next Cr:
For thhe above 200 Td hulls
J1: Cr907
J2: Cr1474
J3: Cr2748
J4: Cr5161
J5: Cr11608
J6: Cr86588

For some 1000 Td hulls, otherwise identical patterns
J1: Cr681
J2: Cr1109
J3: Cr1796
J4: Cr2980
J5: Cr5123
J6: Cr10980

Economy of scale (if one could routinely fill same) is clear: a Td1K ship can out profit any 200 Td design; by the same token, however, what makes it possible for them to fill the holds also ties them to routes.

I think I've shown J2 designs, under T20, can make a profit... on certain, limited, passenger driven routes, assuming Bk2/7 or T20 pricing. Not much of one, but they can.

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by TheEngineer:
Hey, hasnt anybody already done a spreadsheet for this stuff ?

I'm working on adding something like this to the T20 Starship Design Spreadsheet v1.8.

I figure it'll help wannabe starship designers understand how economical (or not) their designs will be.

 

[Falkayn]

Spreadsheet is completed, check out the Software Solutions forum.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Falkayn:
Spreadsheet is completed, check out the Software Solutions forum.

Kewl! Now to play with it.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Hans: It doesn't take a steady stream of good runs; it takes but one or two excellent runs (not routes, but specific runs) to make scads of money.

Oh. My mistake. I thought you were talking about individual voyages. However, the same problem applies. A route that is so profitable will attract competitors, which will drive the profit down to something approaching what you can earn anywhere else with the same ship.

Sure, there will be exceptions for people who manage to get a good contract while the getting is good, but starships takes years to build. A nyone who buy one based on a unique opportunity will have to spot said opportunity several years in advance and plunk down his money while fervently praying that no one else spots the same opportunity and gets in ahead of him. That's all very well for a PC type character, but what the average shipowner earns must be calculated based on average opportunities.


Hans

 

[BetterThanLife]

Nummbers are rounded up to next Cr:
For thhe above 200 Td hulls
J1: Cr907
J2: Cr1474
J3: Cr2748
J4: Cr5161
J5: Cr11608
J6: Cr86588

For some 1000 Td hulls, otherwise identical patterns
J1: Cr681
J2: Cr1109
J3: Cr1796
J4: Cr2980
J5: Cr5123
J6: Cr10980

Note with these numbers, on the smaller hulls you are limited to J3 for commercial applications for per parsec rules but travelling a little light, or not being able to go your full jump potential, (Just because you have Jump-3 capacity doesn't mean you always want to go Jump-3 because the stars don't always cooperate.) and still make a profit. The bigger ship is limited to Jump-4. Now adding passengers does make a difference. Usually with a good mix, on small ships, 200-600, tons you can travel at 75% capacity, or 75% jump capacity with the per parsec rules and not miss a payment in the Jump-2, jump-3 or jump-4 range, though margins still make Jump-4 rare birds. (And Jump-4+ are usually military applications in MTU.)

One other note, Mail contracts are nice, matter of fact the best use of 5 tons of space, but do require two things. Mail Contracts requires an armed ship, with gunners. And Mail Contracts are only offered to Subsidized ships. (So financing doesn't enter into it.) Which means Mail contracts are tied to a specific route.

 

[BetterThanLife]

One other note on Broker-4 skill. Broker-4 is a great skill set to have. But if I had it I personally wouldn't travel until I made enough money to do it in style. Certainly not on some Tramp Trader. Just pick a busy port, do some advertising, and let your reputation do the work for you. After all whether the customer makes money or loses money, you still make 20%. You can easily make 5 times the money of buying and selling and travelling by sitting still. And you get to "make mo money, mo money, mo money, without using yo money!"

One other note, just to keep things fairly balanced and as an interesting, at least in my opinion, aside. Do you think that when you either buy or sell your cargo that you are really the only one, especially in the bigger ports, with the Broker skill? What if the guy doing the buying when you get there also has a broker? Wouldn't that be an opposed skill roll? I have Broker-4 he has Broker-3. I adjust the price 4 he adjusts it back 3. (Or worse yet, I have Broker-3 and he has Broker-4. Ooops.

) Just the Games Operations Director in me thinking, and keeping the Munchkins out of MTU. (And proving once again that I have also earned the title Director Of Game.)

 

[Simone]

Originally posted by Bhoins:

You can easily make 5 times the money of buying and selling and travelling by sitting still.

...yes, but then we're playing Sitter instead of Traveller!

Better, have a series of warehouses, 1 per planet you intend to trade through on a route (golden quadrangle). Buy wherever you happen to be, have stuff shipped by a NPC ship (at simple freight cost! I KNOW it is not profitable to ship it at 1kcr/ton, so let some poor schmuck NPC do it, lose HIS shirt) to your warehouse on the world with the best sell DM, when you get there on your route, sell it. You'll lose some to theft, OK, and some opportunity cost cause you'll be doing other things from time to time, OK, too.

Your boat can be the ultimate, the "rich man's yacht" , aka merc. cruiser or heavier, because you simply DO NOT CARE to have "cargo" on your personal boat - just makes you a target, anyway, and when you really feel like Adventuring, do so - the stuff sits in your warehouse, waiting for you.

Trade + Spec when the system lets you get it there for 1kcr/ton is the way to go. A Bargain.

On the subject of Opposed Rolls - it should be that way, absolutely. The player will usually have the edge (those broker 4's are RARE), if you are one, you'll seldom face one - they can't negotitiate every deal which comes down the pike, and you are going to sell all of your personal stuff.

I would say, make a chart (I've seen one, somewhere) tabling starport etc. vs availability of opposing broker. You (the Player)should NOT get to know how good your opposition is, but should expect competency. (when space "combat" occurs, you assume the opposing gunners have gunnery skill, dontcha?)

musings of a sojourner

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Here is a T20 J2 with a profit, making a payment AND needing no spec cargo. It needs to fill all of the HP and LP berths double occupancy:
200Td Flattend Sphere Hull. 1J2 PP2 for 2 weeks, with a model 1/bis computer. Fuel Tankage of 42 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks. There are 22 Large Staterooms, providing for 5 crew, with the remainder for passengers. There are 26 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr74.6. Payments per month are KCr310.833,

(This would be T20 rules, right? I thought we were talknig about the CT rules.)

Anyway, this is where your argument derails. It's the payment of the mortgage, all right, which services 80% of the cost of the ship. And that may be good enough for a millionaire owner aboard who's content to take the 'profit' on his 20% investment in adventure and exitement along the starways. But any entity with an eye for the bottom line will want the remaining 20% to earn money too. Which means that all the other J2 ships in the universe will actually be operating at an effective loss.

Which is what Bhoins and I have been trying to explain all along.

Your ship should earn a considerable sum more. Just how much more I'm not quite sure, but something approaching the same rate of return as the rest of the ship's capitalization earns.


Hans

 

[Commander Drax]

Similar real life, heavy capitol (speculative) businesses, such as buying a car dealership or owning a furniture store (I should know, having experience of this) are routinely expected to earn 10% of their capitol start up costs per year of operation. Thus breaking even after ten years, any profits that come in after that are all pure 'cream' that can be used to finance subsequent new ventures. I think the same should apply to traveller starships.

Thus a Mcr50 tramp merchant should have a business plan that generates Mcr5 per year, paying for the ship in 10 full years.

 

[Simone]

Drax is right on target!

E.G. The "value" of a fast food franchise is rated at 10 years of net profits, or so I read once upon another liftime.

 

[Falkayn]

Yeah, but we're Solomani ... the average Vilani might* see a payoff in terms of a number of generations a good thing (provides stability, requires dedication, attracts suitably minded investors, etc.).

* Strangely I've never met a PC Vilani who was the least bit like this ... :->

 

[aramis]

Supposedly (based upon asking several commercial fishing crew and officers) Alaska commercial fishing vventures assume a payoff (complete recapitalization) on 20 years of modal rates (IE, most common anual return); many pay of with one good year; many more change hands to dig out of debt.

You guys are comparing the stable sales industry with the fringe subset of a high-capital service industry.

The interest rate is about 1.75%, compounded monthly. Since major capital investments (Like ships, aircraft, major capital projects) usually return more than the inflation rate, and less than typical loan rates for less durable items, usually about 1-2% lower), we can inferr (let me emphasize again, inferr) there is very little inflation, and interest rates on shorter term less-durable-item loans are probably on the order of 2-3%. Realistically, such rates are less than most insitutions pay to get people to "Lend the bank money" (make savings deposits and CD's).

Now, that 1000 Td pure cargo design will actually have slightly higher costs, due to the need to have dirstside brokers, etc.

And those buiding-based items you mention above are likely to be paying 7-10% interest on loans...

Whereas commercial fishing vessel loans are often down to 7% locally (and sometimes into the 12-15% range for bad credit risk loans), due to a combination of government incentives to the bank and the abundanc of local fishing resources. And I get 6.5% on my savings account, and 2.5% on checking!

So, since the mortages are EXCEEDINGLY reasonable, yes, I'll conceed that, by modern sales-driven buisiness standards, they are very badly off...

But I challenge you, instead of saying "It's broke" examine the potential impacts of a negligible inflation and lending rate.

 

[TheEngineer]

Hmm, are we still talking about a given specific trading ruleset or about some examples of real life economy ?
Mixing all of that again and again does not really make sense

 

[BetterThanLife]

Well it wouldn't take long, sitting. As for Yacht, I have always liked the FASA Desiree Keah Yacht. A little 400 Ton Yacht. Matter of fact, earn enough to buy the yacht, travel about and spend a couple of weeks in each port brokering deals, throwing parties and enjoying yourself. Then the game is back to about being

"The Forward third of the ship is taken up by the recreation area. Two decks high, with transparent bulkheads, the area is spectacular. It can be used for everything from formal dinners to impromptu sporting events, and is often the scene for parties, grand ballsand other entertainment."

Besides it is just cool looking.

You can cruise the galaxy in style with 13 of your favorite friends, lackeys, bimbos and sychophants.

Since you are a semi-retired Broker you could always do a little work for friends and such, especially on bigger deals and of course don't forget your 20%.

Originally posted by Soldiurnare:

Originally posted by Bhoins:

You can easily make 5 times the money of buying and selling and travelling by sitting still.

...yes, but then we're playing Sitter instead of Traveller!

Better, have a series of warehouses, 1 per planet you intend to trade through on a route (golden quadrangle). Buy wherever you happen to be, have stuff shipped by a NPC ship (at simple freight cost! I KNOW it is not profitable to ship it at 1kcr/ton, so let some poor schmuck NPC do it, lose HIS shirt) to your warehouse on the world with the best sell DM, when you get there on your route, sell it. You'll lose some to theft, OK, and some opportunity cost cause you'll be doing other things from time to time, OK, too.

Your boat can be the ultimate, the "rich man's yacht" , aka merc. cruiser or heavier, because you simply DO NOT CARE to have "cargo" on your personal boat - just makes you a target, anyway, and when you really feel like Adventuring, do so - the stuff sits in your warehouse, waiting for you.

Trade + Spec when the system lets you get it there for 1kcr/ton is the way to go. A Bargain.

On the subject of Opposed Rolls - it should be that way, absolutely. The player will usually have the edge (those broker 4's are RARE), if you are one, you'll seldom face one - they can't negotitiate every deal which comes down the pike, and you are going to sell all of your personal stuff.

I would say, make a chart (I've seen one, somewhere) tabling starport etc. vs availability of opposing broker. You (the Player)should NOT get to know how good your opposition is, but should expect competency. (when space "combat" occurs, you assume the opposing gunners have gunnery skill, dontcha?)

musings of a sojourner