What, if anything, is like gold?

[BMonnery]

They do fit onto the table, the major groupings you can see are based on subshell fillings. The s subshell is filling to the left, d to the right, d subshell is the transition elements. The Lathanides and Actinides are caused by the filling of the f subshell.

Lanthanum is common enough that lighter flints are 25% lanthanum, and has 25 recognised isotopes, two being stable, and 23 radioactives.

It costs $5 million per ton at the moment, as it's very difficult to seperate. This means that refined lanthanum may by quite valuable, at current rates a displacement ton of lanthanum is worth Cr469,000,000.

So, you can get it anywhere, but rich, easily refined veins are going to be worth a lot, as you can produce it for less (cheaper starships for the spacy, or more profit if sold abroad).

Bryn

PS Please ignore any references to tantalum I might have made, it's automatic after arguing about the 2300 "stardrive metal" for so long.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Smiling DM:

IMTU - I maintain the canon of lanthanum being used in Jump drives, but...

<snip, cut, paste, save for my campaign, much crunchy goodness that should be canonized! see above if you missed it!>

Sorry for the long post - somone rated me and I felt so self-important that I just had to keep writing thinking everyone would want to read it

.
Been there done that but in your case, for this post at least, even I'd have rated you

Thanks!

 

[Smiling DM]

Originally posted by BMonnery:
[QB]They do fit onto the table, the major groupings you can see are based on subshell fillings. The s subshell is filling to the left, d to the right, d subshell is the transition elements. The Lathanides and Actinides are caused by the filling of the f subshell.

Right - but to truly fit as a model, the lanthanides and actinide would stack on top of one another and come out of the page (requiring 3 dimensions) as the s subshell is the same for all of each family - which is also why they are difficult to seperate.

Lanthanum is common enough that lighter flints are 25% lanthanum, and has 25 recognised isotopes, two being stable, and 23 radioactives.

Another common use is in Ni-hydride batteries - the actual compound used in the battereies is LaNi5 (1 atom of Lanthanum and 5 atoms of nickel). Cheaper batteries use an alloy called Misch metal, which is really just the unseperated lanthanides reduced to metal.

It costs $5 million per ton at the moment, as it's very difficult to seperate. This means that refined lanthanum may by quite valuable, at current rates a displacement ton of lanthanum is worth Cr469,000,000.

I'd like to see the math on this one as Lanthanum is much cheaper than silver in terms of a commodity, yet I don't recall the silver cargo cost being >500 MCr per ton (in fact I think it was a lot less - don't have my book handy so I can't post the actual number - sorry).

Last pricing I have from China (as of Oct 2001) for 99% pure lanthanum is $4.5 per kg or $4500 per mass-ton. China currently dominates the lanthanide supply on Terra as they have ~50% of the world's reserves, so this is definitely the lowest price of the market - other vendors will charge more.

While no one uses it in ultra-high purity form (99.99% pure), other lanthanides that I use are at this purity level, so to extrapolate the purification cost for lanthanum against the base cost above, I'd say that 4 9's pure Lanthanum would cost ~$10,000 per mass-ton. If you want to add a couple more 9's (99.9999% pure - the kind of purity that one might assume necessary to construct a viable a Jump grid), then the cost would approach $20-30K per mass-ton.

So, for conversion, $3 to the Imperial Cr, density of lanthanum metal is 6145.3 kg/m3 at room teperature, and 1 disp. ton = 14m3

$30K / 1000 kg / 3 * 6145.3 * 14 = 860KCr per disp-ton

Now add the regulatory hassles (paperwork, production licenses) and the econmic demand for this commodity in the Third Imperium, and I'd estimate a fair base price for speculative trade to be ~1 MCr per ton for highly refined lanthanum metal - which makes sense given that raw gems are valued at 1 MCr/ton (have that number memorized as my group just passed up the chance to get some as cargo - they had a GREAT plan that was sure to net them +10 to their selling price roll, just no where near the juice to make it happen).

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Oh just a side bar here. Is lanthanum one of the rare earth's used in the composition of 'Rare Earth Magnets?'

As for the other Data COOL! that's bound to show up in a Traveller Campaign of mine.

Drive Grade Lanthanum 1Mcr/displacement ton base price.

Thanks
Garf.

 

[Smiling DM]

Originally posted by Garf:
Oh just a side bar here. Is lanthanum one of the rare earth's used in the composition of 'Rare Earth Magnets?'

No, those magnets are composed of either Neodymium and iron OR Samarium and cobalt

SmCo was invented first and works at higher temperatures (up to 500 C). NdFe (actually NdFeB) was invented as a cheaper magnet because of radical Cobalt supply in the late 70's. Turns out a more powerful magnet, but only useful up to say 200 C.

Lanthaum is used in lighter flints, Ni-hydride batteries, and (in its oxide form) as phosphors for lighting and TV picture tubes. Its key feature is its reactivity - a lump of lanthanum sitting on a table will visible darken and degrade (reacting with oxygen and nitrogen) in minutes.

The other rare earths tend to have bizarre magnetic properties - like the super hard magnets of neodymium and samarium. The materials I work with, terbium and dysprosium, change shape when you apply a magnetic field to them. Terbium is also used in magneto-optic disk storage, a technology that never really caught on here in the states. Basically the materials index of refraction changes depending on its magnetic state, giving you an optical 1 or 0. And then theres some alloys of gadolinium in current research that change heat capacity when you apply a magnetic field to them (essentially by alternating a field you can pump heat - a solid state refrigerator - no CFC's, no loud inefficient compressor, etc.)

All cool stuff, and all REAL.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Perusing my Lee Valley catalogue I've had a bunch of ideas for Submissions to the gear section of CotI

At what Tech level would you say those two types of Rare Earth magnets become availeble?

hmmm...

And hard metals the change shape in varying magnetic feilds... why am I getting evil weapons ideas??

Garf

 

[Smiling DM]

Originally posted by Garf:
At what Tech level would you say those two types of Rare Earth magnets become availeble?

I'd say they are TL7 - the chemistry to refine them is TL6, but society requirements for their properties doesn't show up until you are heavily in the digital age.

And hard metals the change shape in varying magnetic feilds... why am I getting evil weapons ideas??

Well, I don't mean to lead you on that the shape change is huge. In the case of TERFENOL-D (the name of the alloy), the amount of change is 0.1% of the rods length. Doesn't sound like much, but the amount of force delivered is huge - a 0.25" diameter rod can generate 100 pounds dynamic force. And a 2.5" drive generates 55,000 pounds of force.

Technology was invented by the Navy for active SONAR - the 'pinging'. Most of the applications (real world) are in micropoisiotning (like fuel injectors), high powered acoustics and ultrasonics.

Apologize for tangenting of the thread.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

WAy too cool.

but yeah.. hmmm

MacGuffins:

Few things are intrisically valuble everywhere.

Information is often time sensitive. It's only valuble while Patron X is the first to know.

Other rare items (like botanicals, or a person to be rescued ) probably have 'sell by' dates too.

They certainly are 'perishables'.

Trade goods are location sensitive. and probably time sensitive too (you don't want to be the SECOND ship to arrive with a load of Hi-tech guns for sale.)

Expertise...That's a comodity but it's not a MacGuffin. though looking for somone with a particularly rare skill or knowledge could be...interesting.

Ancient's Secrets are almost a separate case of the knowledge thing. and often hard to transport.

Commodities are boring.

Illegals and quasilegals have more value but a different risk set.

Transport capability can be a MacGuffin. I'm seriously considering starting my next part off without a ship.

Garf.

 

[far-trader]

How could I have forgotten? My x-mail this morning included the latest TNS dispatch with a story involving smuggling of Psi drugs. Not only is it a rare and valued commodity but big time trouble for all involved, and the PC's might not even know what they are getting messed up in

Anyway, Anagathics have been mentioned but I always thought (canon I thought but can't nail the source right now, probably MT) it was a regimen of special diet, supplements, medical procedures and of course drugs. My point being that if that were the case it becomes much less portable, unless it could be in the form of say a specialized automed. A couple hours a week (?) in your capsule keeps you young, as long as the onboard stock of chemicals (rare and pricey, high TL to refine/synthesize) is kept supplied.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Garf lights a torch, grabs a pitchfork and points at the psi drug toting PC's

"WITCH... WITCH!" he denounces.

Psi Drugs are trouble with a capital T.. very fun to throw at your players.

RE: Anagathics Hmmm I think there was a Key drug or pill in there too, MT had rules for maintaining your supply during prior history so that you could try for a REALLY old character with good stats. Made for an interesting NPC once... Naval officer Who scored a supply the same term a naval battle blew up her engines and injured her out.. But she wasn't bitter...

Garf.

 

[BMonnery]

<QUOTE> Last pricing I have from China (as of Oct 2001) for 99% pure lanthanum is $4.5 per kg or $4500 per mass-ton. China currently dominates the lanthanide supply on Terra as they have ~50% of the world's reserves, so this is definitely the lowest price of the market - other vendors will charge more. <QUOTE>

The listing I checked (WebElements? I'll check) Listed $5 g-1 for ultra-pure Lanthanum, which I just scaled up.

<QUOTE> So, for conversion, $3 to the Imperial Cr, density of lanthanum metal is 6145.3 kg/m3 at room teperature, and 1 disp. ton = 14m3 <QUOTE>

1 CrImp is set at the value of the USD ISTR. It's 2300 Livre which is ~1990 $3 (~ 2002 $5.25)

Bryn

 

[Smiling DM]

Originally posted by BMonnery:
<QUOTE> Last pricing I have from China (as of Oct 2001) for 99% pure lanthanum is $4.5 per kg or $4500 per mass-ton. <QUOTE>

The listing I checked (WebElements? I'll check) Listed $5 g-1 for ultra-pure Lanthanum, which I just scaled up.

Thats for very small quantities such as what you would use in a laboratory - probably in 100g increments. You'll see similar pricing in the Aldrich supply catalog for the same quantities.

The pricing I reference is true industrial scale pricing by the mass-ton from the actual producer of the metal.

<QUOTE> So, for conversion, $3 to the Imperial Cr, density of lanthanum metal is 6145.3 kg/m3 at room teperature, and 1 disp. ton = 14m3 <QUOTE>

1 CrImp is set at the value of the USD ISTR. It's 2300 Livre which is ~1990 $3 (~ 2002 $5.25)

Bryn

Uh . . . in T20 Lite, the Imperial Cr is listed as being equivalent to 3$ - page 8 of the Lite rules. Perhaps this is a break with previous canon.

 

[BMonnery]

<Quote>

<QUOTE> So, for conversion, $3 to the Imperial Cr, density of lanthanum metal is 6145.3 kg/m3 at room teperature, and 1 disp. ton = 14m3 <QUOTE>

1 CrImp is set at the value of the USD ISTR. It's 2300 Livre which is ~1990 $3 (~ 2002 $5.25)

Bryn

Uh . . . in T20 Lite, the Imperial Cr is listed as being equivalent to 3$ - page 8 of the Lite rules. Perhaps this is a break with previous canon.[/QB][/QUOTE]</quote>

Ah. In TNE (and earlier versions?) 1 Cr = $1, but I quick look at T20 tells me salaries and prices(in Cr) are the same, resulting in a threefold increase in incomes.

A Ships Pilot is paid $234,000 in modern terms, but by the price of travel has also gone up threefold ($30,000 per jump).

I think it might by wise to reset 1 Cr at $1, or various anomolies will be caused.
Bryn

 

[Tarn]

Here are a few variants on some of the earlier MacGuffan ideas:

New Laser design with less waste heat (Less waste heat means a cooler ship. A cooler ship means less Infrared radiation emitted from the vessel. Less radiation gives a steather ship).

Passwords and passcodes: Especially IFF codes. These items are often changed so one might think of them as perishable as well.

Astroburgers Secret Sauce Recipe.

Copyrighted material. There was a practise in the 19th century of taking works published in Britan and Printing them in the US before the original british author did. The copyright (in the US) then went to the US publisher. Gilbert and Sulivan would, when they were preparing a new play, train a extra cast that would be sent to New York for a preformance so they could claim copyright. An amazing new holovid from some backwater world not tied into the entertainment distribution system (at least not as a source) could lead to a mad race to claim copyright on as many worlds as possible.

Fad Items: Tickle Me Elmo... need I say more?

Collectables and Antiques: "This is obviously a chair made by Horzt and Sons on Sylea. They were making this style for a thirty year period from 743 to 773. Do you have any idea how much this would be worth at auction?"