What next?
- Thread starter kafka47
- Start date
For my own experience, I found GT helped continue my enjoyment of Traveller, after some disappointment with T4. Though truth be told, T4 did rewake my love for Traveller, after skipping TNE.
What I loved about GT was some of the detail went into things like armies, commerce and starports. GT also allowed me to easily intergrate the various GURPS sourcebooks I collected for game color into one setting.
I choose c) All the above.Originally posted by kafka47:
ps Don't you guys think that I deserve a higher rating, as my posts seem to generate more discussion than othersOr maybe I am just an evil troublemaker...
IMHO it's probaly the detail GURPS gives to every item or topic. On another discussion board GURPS was described a more of a simulation system as opposed to a rules framework that handles the general and typical situations. I find that to be truth because GURPS seem to be the only system that gives you rules on any era, character, animal, weapon, item, or vehicle.
Now in terms of T20, I'm quite impressed with the amount of detail the rules go into equipment and vehicles. The only thing missing are rules for designing more equipment, especially weapons. There a good coverage on creating starships, but no rules on color items like pool, gyms, offices, etc. like you have with GT.
OTOH, T20 will open more opportunities to introduce Traveller to players, as they are already familar with the base system.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
My thoughts on GURPS:
Champions does/did Generic Points and Budget systems better.
Big Eyes Small Mouth (BESM): blows both out of the water. Especially now that Guardians of Order has expanded their 'Tri-Stat' system from a d6 base to a d10 base for their new superhero system.
Gurps though: Got the rights to all sorts of Cool supplements. Gurps supplements made adequate Champions supplements with some tweeking. There was I time when I would have Killed for a Champions Traveller. And not that long ago I considered making my own house rules for BESM: Traveller.
On Random vs. Crafted characters: I've come full circle. I HATED d&d because I'd want to play a fighter and roll a strength of 6 (1st ed AD&D did not have all these extra die rolls and you rolled in order)
I had problems with CT's system which killed off or retired characters before you really had a chance to develop them according to concept.
Most of my gaming in the 80's and beyond was with 'points and budget' systems or hybrid systems that allowed flexibility. but after awhile I developed so MANY concepts that picking and choosing got hard. I got so good at min/maxing my creations that I became jaded.
I've come full circle.
Random systems today have enough failsafes that you shouldn't have a character that sucks.
BUT..
you have to be flexible with concept. You can decide your character is going to be a Combat Monkey or a medic or a stealth expert.
you can achieve that. but you cannot predict how she'll go about achieving that or what age he'll be when your done. nor will those little things like, gettting wounded or cashiered or decorated be predictable at all. and by diceing through it all you build a complex person who is more that just an ideal set of stats or a well executed concept design, you build something imperfect and random and full of surprises....
just a like a real person.
IMO, now and, for now, Modern random systems beat design systems all hollow.
Champions does/did Generic Points and Budget systems better.
Big Eyes Small Mouth (BESM): blows both out of the water. Especially now that Guardians of Order has expanded their 'Tri-Stat' system from a d6 base to a d10 base for their new superhero system.
Gurps though: Got the rights to all sorts of Cool supplements. Gurps supplements made adequate Champions supplements with some tweeking. There was I time when I would have Killed for a Champions Traveller. And not that long ago I considered making my own house rules for BESM: Traveller.
On Random vs. Crafted characters: I've come full circle. I HATED d&d because I'd want to play a fighter and roll a strength of 6 (1st ed AD&D did not have all these extra die rolls and you rolled in order)
I had problems with CT's system which killed off or retired characters before you really had a chance to develop them according to concept.
Most of my gaming in the 80's and beyond was with 'points and budget' systems or hybrid systems that allowed flexibility. but after awhile I developed so MANY concepts that picking and choosing got hard. I got so good at min/maxing my creations that I became jaded.
I've come full circle.
Random systems today have enough failsafes that you shouldn't have a character that sucks.
BUT..
you have to be flexible with concept. You can decide your character is going to be a Combat Monkey or a medic or a stealth expert.
you can achieve that. but you cannot predict how she'll go about achieving that or what age he'll be when your done. nor will those little things like, gettting wounded or cashiered or decorated be predictable at all. and by diceing through it all you build a complex person who is more that just an ideal set of stats or a well executed concept design, you build something imperfect and random and full of surprises....
just a like a real person.
IMO, now and, for now, Modern random systems beat design systems all hollow.
Tom Schoene
SOC-12
Garf,
I guess I'm stuck in the '80s then, just like my taste in music.
As to the "complex person with little imperfections" thing, that's the kind of GURPS characters I like to create and play. And when I, as a GM, come across characters that are min/maxed to the hilt with a bunch of disadds that aren't really disadds, they go in the trashcan. I had my fill of THAT kind of gaming a LONG time ago.
It's odd you bring up Champions. I LOVE Champions. It was the first "point buy" game system I ever played. I prefer it VERY much over GURPS Supers (the dirty little secret is GURPS STINKS for supers genera). I still play Champions (5th ed. now) when I can.
I guess I'm stuck in the '80s then, just like my taste in music.
As to the "complex person with little imperfections" thing, that's the kind of GURPS characters I like to create and play. And when I, as a GM, come across characters that are min/maxed to the hilt with a bunch of disadds that aren't really disadds, they go in the trashcan. I had my fill of THAT kind of gaming a LONG time ago.
It's odd you bring up Champions. I LOVE Champions. It was the first "point buy" game system I ever played. I prefer it VERY much over GURPS Supers (the dirty little secret is GURPS STINKS for supers genera). I still play Champions (5th ed. now) when I can.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Check out Guardians of Order's 'Tri-Stat' products.
Champions was my other love, before during after, traveller. those two games form the core of Reffing purchasing and agitating among my fellow RP'ers for the games I want to play.. Existance.
BESM has COMPLETELY supplanted Champions for me.
Big Eyes Small Mouth (now in revised second ed. is the core game of GoO's 'Tri-Stat' system) it's original intention was to simulate Anime. but it's a generic Anime system that goes a LONG way to playing anygame...
especially over the top Cinematic kinds. (like supers) They've introduced (but I have not bought) a Superhero varient.
They also produce 'ultimate fan guides' for various Anime serials with the screen shots and Story info separated out from the game info so that they can appeal to two separate but overlapping markets. The Anime Fan and the Anime Gamer.
They also sell complete games which combine a minor varient of their core rules and sourcebook type info into one book. Most of these are anime based but there are some interesting ones.
Hong Kong Action Theatre: You play an Actor playing a(several) character(s) (sort of a game within a game) you can actually die and come back as a different character in a new movie... I've not played it but the description I've heard was... amusing.
They also produce supplements that are house product.
Centauri Knights for example is a very interesting post modern Sci Fi place. Alien Tech, Cyborgs, Megacorps, Activist NGO's and UN Troops all on a strange planet acessable only by getting one's Cerebral Spinal column removed, stuck in a 'brain pod' and shipped by slow boat to Alpha Centauri -- where one can then be put back together with clone or cyborg parts.... worth checking out. If only for it's uniqueness.
Champions was my other love, before during after, traveller. those two games form the core of Reffing purchasing and agitating among my fellow RP'ers for the games I want to play.. Existance.
BESM has COMPLETELY supplanted Champions for me.
Big Eyes Small Mouth (now in revised second ed. is the core game of GoO's 'Tri-Stat' system) it's original intention was to simulate Anime. but it's a generic Anime system that goes a LONG way to playing anygame...
especially over the top Cinematic kinds. (like supers) They've introduced (but I have not bought) a Superhero varient.
They also produce 'ultimate fan guides' for various Anime serials with the screen shots and Story info separated out from the game info so that they can appeal to two separate but overlapping markets. The Anime Fan and the Anime Gamer.
They also sell complete games which combine a minor varient of their core rules and sourcebook type info into one book. Most of these are anime based but there are some interesting ones.
Hong Kong Action Theatre: You play an Actor playing a(several) character(s) (sort of a game within a game) you can actually die and come back as a different character in a new movie... I've not played it but the description I've heard was... amusing.
They also produce supplements that are house product.
Centauri Knights for example is a very interesting post modern Sci Fi place. Alien Tech, Cyborgs, Megacorps, Activist NGO's and UN Troops all on a strange planet acessable only by getting one's Cerebral Spinal column removed, stuck in a 'brain pod' and shipped by slow boat to Alpha Centauri -- where one can then be put back together with clone or cyborg parts.... worth checking out. If only for it's uniqueness.
jalexandratos
SOC-8
Here, here!!! What we really need is Hero Traveller or EABA Traveller.
Oh, and source material that has stats for the various versions of Traveller. Yeah, it's a little more overhead, but think of the whiz-bang factor of rolling to see what gaming system you use for a particular session.
Gaming Glen
SOC-12
I'll let you in on a not-so-secret tidbit: it's not that secret that GURPS sucks for the supers genre. It's just that some GURPS fanatics can't see through their rose-colored glasses.
Myself, I think GURPS rules suck in general. GURPS has lots of good source materal, but I won't play the system. I have GT, for the T.
I love Champions. I tried Fantasy Hero and wasn't to thrilled. I prefer Runequest for fantasy, but if you think you GURPS GMs can't find players then multiply that by 10 for us RQ would-be GMs.
Back to the topic, I'm not going to care much for what comes next unless it's not campaign specific. I bet that's a fat chance of happening. I have my own TU (ah, that's what MTU stands for
) so have no need for a campaign specific supplement (will I buy it anyway? of course... don't you see the Traveller-tube stuck into the vein of my wallet? ).Hmm, I wonder if I can get rid of some of my TNE stuff to help pay for the new stuff?
Glen
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Becuase compared to even to other 'points and budget' gaming systems GURPS is cludgy, rules heavy, over detailed and ... Clumsy.
It's frankly not the best system, it's not even the best system of its type.
The big thing it has going for it is powerhouse publishing and the rights to many many cool universes.
YMMV.
It's frankly not the best system, it's not even the best system of its type.
The big thing it has going for it is powerhouse publishing and the rights to many many cool universes.
YMMV.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Well the above was an opinion. if you really want to debate it go ahead and start a topic, I doubt you will convince me to change an opinion formed out of years of gaming with multiple systems but.... in the meantime I'll shut up here.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Is it just me, or is this a T-20 discussion board, not a Gurps Trav board? I think the right place for this topic the way yer steering guys is Random Static. Hell, I'll chime in on it THERE, if ye like.
But lets be civil, this ain't TML.
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Tom Schoene:
Have you any of the MT books with the blank sector sheets in em? Lay hands on one?
If so, print off(xerox) one, and spend some time writing by hand.
I did 16 sectors that way till I got a printer. YES it was a pain in the hands, But I got faster at it. Yer just doing Ley sector, and its not as dense as Zarushagar/ Dagudashaag, or heck, Lishun!
I haven't tried to print off the CoTI map, but the online problem I can relate too. Fortunately, my comp is in the living room where we game.
Or do it subsector by subsector. The T-20 has blank sheets THB that is.
But lets be civil, this ain't TML.
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Tom Schoene:
Have you any of the MT books with the blank sector sheets in em? Lay hands on one?
If so, print off(xerox) one, and spend some time writing by hand.
I did 16 sectors that way till I got a printer. YES it was a pain in the hands, But I got faster at it. Yer just doing Ley sector, and its not as dense as Zarushagar/ Dagudashaag, or heck, Lishun!
I haven't tried to print off the CoTI map, but the online problem I can relate too. Fortunately, my comp is in the living room where we game.
Or do it subsector by subsector. The T-20 has blank sheets THB that is.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Well I hope I am being civil. But If I wasn't I apologise for any ill-chosen words or phrases. I re-iterate my willingness to move to another topic. (
Here, Re: Gurps)
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As for the rest of it. I donno. I find I have tons more ideas than I have time to game out already. On the other hand I'm an old traveller hand. My buddies notice holes in the THB that I am completely blind to until they try and create Zhondi characters that are imperial nobles or ask me questions that indicate they don't understand the difference between class and prior history. Myself I have to keep reminding myself to refer to Vargr Charisma as 'Prestige'... oh well. I'm having fun and the more fun I have, the less time I have to read the books looking for flaws to complain about.
after over twenty years I'm playing traveller at last. Life is good.
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As for the rest of it. I donno. I find I have tons more ideas than I have time to game out already. On the other hand I'm an old traveller hand. My buddies notice holes in the THB that I am completely blind to until they try and create Zhondi characters that are imperial nobles or ask me questions that indicate they don't understand the difference between class and prior history. Myself I have to keep reminding myself to refer to Vargr Charisma as 'Prestige'... oh well. I'm having fun and the more fun I have, the less time I have to read the books looking for flaws to complain about.
after over twenty years I'm playing traveller at last. Life is good.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
I know you were Garf, it was headed down hill though. Thanks fer putting it down. Thats a classier thing than escalation to do.
