P
Pickles
Guest
Good choice then, Gruffty!
What OTU setting would you like to see more development on?
- Thread starter Ganidirsii O'Flynn
- Start date
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
If you go by that the canon OTU goes until end of 1203 or so (last GDW published sourcebooks "date") since those are all official stuff. OTOH that exactly IS the problem since we have i.e four sets of incompatible/semi compatible ship design rules (B2, B5, MT, TNE/FFS) all from the original company, vastly different universe descriptions (big vs. small ship), differences in noble systems, planetary descirptions, Imperial Organisations (IRIS anyone) etc.Originally posted by Ganidiirsi O'Flynn:
Sorry, Mike. I gotta disagree.
The canon OTU goes up to 1116. Quik-Link and Comstar-Games publish 'approved for use with Traveller' (to use an oldgeek term) dealing with both the Solomani Rim War and the New Era up to 1248. The only 'unofficial' or 'alternate' Traveller being published is Loren Weisman's work with SJG (GURPS: Traveller). This diverges with the OTU in that the Assassination and Rebellion didn't happen and projects the future of a mature Imperium.
Insofar as the naval systems go, QLI's Grand Fleet is the definitive work, as well as the boardgames "Fifth Frontier War" and "Azhanti High Lightning". The noble system is covered quite well in "G:T Nobles". I'm willing to give Weisman the benefit of the doubt on that one..
Anything past "First day of the Fifth Frontier War" get's debates from the pro/contra factions of Rebellion, Hard Times, New Era and SJG "Alternate" fans. I.e I use GT rules but whenever a game is set in 1116+ Streppi WILL die!
While I agree with your stance on Nobles (and to a lesser degree Grand Fleet) and would like to see both declared "this is it" the fact remains that unless MWM does so or declares a new set of rules (T5???) to define "canon", even debating OTU canon either has to fall back on a few early (and often VERY spotty) sourcebooks or become a "is/is not" argument quickly.
Setting 1105 as "end of time" would allow all derivates to exist peacefully (Gateway does IIRC not contradict any earlier canon) and would allow a common base of discussions once more, sparing some needless arguments. And 1105 is a nice referrence point for players of CT, MT as well as T20 since fleet and imperial organisations are basically unchanged over that time period.
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
Good choice then, Gruffty!
</font>[/QUOTE]There was alot of discussion about this very subject on other boards. Even to the point of asking LW where "Mt. Farallon" [last organized Solomani resistance] was. I had done a geo-search and there were no actual mountains named Farallon, though there is an ice formation in Antarctica by that name. Weisman said that he didn't work on the project, but thought that the Antarctica site was most probable. "Hoth" anyone? Though the idea of Imperial Marines approaching a fortified position in BOTs (Big, Obvious Targets) is ludicris on it's face... I confess to being interested in the Special Forces/Guerilla aspect of the SRW. Stay-behind units, Special Forces teams sent in to bolster local resistance, decapitation raids and so forth really hold an interest for me given the technologies involved.
Did you limit your geographic search to Terra only. If it is the last point of resistance, I would have thought that the Solomani were holed up across the Terran system. BOT does not really apply if you have the Meson gun buried in a Mountain on Luna or further out...perhaps, Mercury would provide sufficient cover and hide many more mysteries, not mention some of the outer worlds. Sure there is a delay in your strike capacity but that is ample payoff for being virtually undetectable.
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
Well, the last organized resistance for Operation Prodigal Son (the Invasion of Terra) was on Terra itself. This is why I limited my search to Earth. And, as I said, there isn't any Mt. Farallon, save for an icemount in Antarctica (which doesn't count for Geographic criteria, ice being considered temporary).
By this time, Admiral Wolf (Solomani Grand Admiral) had well and truely lost the system battle and was refitting to rimward. In addition, much of the Solomani civil administration was looking to him more and more for guidance. He would soon be elected Coordinator be working on restructuring the Confederation for the rest of his life.
Good point about off-planet meson emplacements and so forth.
By this time, Admiral Wolf (Solomani Grand Admiral) had well and truely lost the system battle and was refitting to rimward. In addition, much of the Solomani civil administration was looking to him more and more for guidance. He would soon be elected Coordinator be working on restructuring the Confederation for the rest of his life.
Good point about off-planet meson emplacements and so forth.
M
Malenfant
Guest
The Rim War is T20's default setting isn't it? It's funny how nobody seemed to be developing any actual Rim War frontline stuff for T20...
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
Well, I'm not sure there was anyone doing it. On another forum of this board folks were talking about an SRW Traveller's Aide, but I hesitate to submit a proposal here given that Hunter isn't answering the phone.
I have no factual basis for this, but I have the feeling like the Traveller pie is cut something like this:
Everybody gets to contribute to the mature Imperium OTU.
LKW at SJG gets the Interstellar Wars/RoM and the GT No Rebellion altTU.
Quik Link gets the SRW.
ComStar Games gets NE: 1248.
IF (and that's a mighty big 'if') this is the case, then Hunter's case of severe absentia may put all these ideas on hold.
I have no factual basis for this, but I have the feeling like the Traveller pie is cut something like this:
Everybody gets to contribute to the mature Imperium OTU.
LKW at SJG gets the Interstellar Wars/RoM and the GT No Rebellion altTU.
Quik Link gets the SRW.
ComStar Games gets NE: 1248.
IF (and that's a mighty big 'if') this is the case, then Hunter's case of severe absentia may put all these ideas on hold.
M
Malenfant
Guest
I think the problem is more that people insist that those different rules have to be compatible with eachother. In every other case like this that I can think of, if a new version of a game comes out then the new version replaces the old one. Traveller is the other way round - older versions have precedence over the newer versions here, for some strange reason.
Personally I'd just adopt the "reality shift" approach. The history of the setting is fundamentally the same, details like small ship/big ship or whatever may change but if you're rolling up characters for the new setting then as far as I'm concerned that is the reality of that setting and always has been. Makes things easier that way, contradictions from what came previously then just become irrelevant.
Ganidirsii O'Flynn
SOC-12
I agree, mostly. Like everyone else, I had a hard time accepting a Kinunir as a cruiser, when you had an Ahzanti High Lightning hanging around.
There were several things about the early OTU ships that I thought odd (a troop transport for a platoon that couldn't land on worlds with an atmosphere), but I saw them as simply ships from an earlier generation of GDW's thinking. The Keith brothers summed it up rather neatly when they defined the Book 2 vessels as "Adventurer-class Ships".
In the New Era, I understood that between the Rebellion and Virus the Imperial Navy had shot itself to pieces. In an era of salvage what you can and jury-rig it to work as best you can, larger vessels were unneeded drain on limited resources. The Reformation Coalition, Sufren etc., didn't have the trained crews or spare parts to operate an Atlantic class dreadnaught, even if they could get one in reasonably servicable condition. This naturally led back to Small Ships.
But the part that snags up the logic here is the comparative plethora of big vessels by the time of the 4I in 1248. WTF did they get the THREE fleets they literally threw away in 10 years?? First they beat themselves to half to death dealing with the Black Imperium, then two fleets are literally destroyed battling the Space Cows... Meanwhile, the RCN is butchering Gazelles and type S scouts into Clippers. ("Attention Dictator below! This is the RC Naval vessel Obscure Philosopher. Stand down before we fire our Rhetoric Cannon!") I understand that some ships came from the Regency and some from the Vilani, but I still don't see where all the battleships came from. Unless they're all Kinunirs.
I guess my point is that there was a logic to it as the OTU grew and changed. And in the end, since players were never gonna get their hands on an AHL-class, it didn't really matter.
PS: Yes, I know that they did get one in the adventure Arrival Vengeance.
In the New Era, I understood that between the Rebellion and Virus the Imperial Navy had shot itself to pieces. In an era of salvage what you can and jury-rig it to work as best you can, larger vessels were unneeded drain on limited resources. The Reformation Coalition, Sufren etc., didn't have the trained crews or spare parts to operate an Atlantic class dreadnaught, even if they could get one in reasonably servicable condition. This naturally led back to Small Ships.
But the part that snags up the logic here is the comparative plethora of big vessels by the time of the 4I in 1248. WTF did they get the THREE fleets they literally threw away in 10 years?? First they beat themselves to half to death dealing with the Black Imperium, then two fleets are literally destroyed battling the Space Cows... Meanwhile, the RCN is butchering Gazelles and type S scouts into Clippers. ("Attention Dictator below! This is the RC Naval vessel Obscure Philosopher. Stand down before we fire our Rhetoric Cannon!") I understand that some ships came from the Regency and some from the Vilani, but I still don't see where all the battleships came from. Unless they're all Kinunirs.
I guess my point is that there was a logic to it as the OTU grew and changed. And in the end, since players were never gonna get their hands on an AHL-class, it didn't really matter.
PS: Yes, I know that they did get one in the adventure Arrival Vengeance.
T
The Shaman
Guest
Our game takes place in the "Golden Age," so I'm always on the look-out for good material for that era - emphasis on the good.
I'd like to see more on the Psionics Suppressions.
Then again, if I never bought another Traveller supplement, I still have more than enough material to play until my hands are too rheumy to hold the dice and my eyes too clouded to read the index card with my character stats. Something has to be pretty compelling for me to even take notice anymore.
I picked up a few of the Avenger titles, to see what those were about, and I wasn't impressed - I was hoping for, "Wow, that's clever!" but really there was nothing there that I couldn't (and haven't) come up with on my own. (That, and their original starship designs are you-gee-el-why. . .!) The QLI Traveller's Aides are much the same, pretty pedestrian - I can't think of anything from the four or five .pdfs I purchased that actually made it into our game, and I backed them up to disc and cleared them off my hard drive, along with the Avenger .pdfs. I know I'm reluctant to buy anything else from either publisher - no point sending good money after bad.
BITS books, on the other hand, get used in our game all the time, and I hope there are more titles in the pipeline. These books stand out as quality Traveller supplements. A BITS psionics book, with some background on the Suppressions - now that would make me take notice!
I'd like to see more on the Psionics Suppressions.
Then again, if I never bought another Traveller supplement, I still have more than enough material to play until my hands are too rheumy to hold the dice and my eyes too clouded to read the index card with my character stats. Something has to be pretty compelling for me to even take notice anymore.
I picked up a few of the Avenger titles, to see what those were about, and I wasn't impressed - I was hoping for, "Wow, that's clever!" but really there was nothing there that I couldn't (and haven't) come up with on my own. (That, and their original starship designs are you-gee-el-why. . .!) The QLI Traveller's Aides are much the same, pretty pedestrian - I can't think of anything from the four or five .pdfs I purchased that actually made it into our game, and I backed them up to disc and cleared them off my hard drive, along with the Avenger .pdfs. I know I'm reluctant to buy anything else from either publisher - no point sending good money after bad.
BITS books, on the other hand, get used in our game all the time, and I hope there are more titles in the pipeline. These books stand out as quality Traveller supplements. A BITS psionics book, with some background on the Suppressions - now that would make me take notice!
