T4 Only: What was best about T4?

[ManOfGrey]

There are plenty of threads on this forum that talk about T4’s strengths and weaknesses. (More of the latter than the former, it seems.) But being a glass-is-half-full ‘kinda guy, I’m curious about the former.

So I decided to take a poll of those who enjoy T4, to find out what you like best about it.

Now I know there are people in the world who are not happy unless they have something to complain about. This really isn’t the thread for them. If you don’t like T4, that’s fine. You don’t have to. But what I am interested in finding out are what T4’s strengths are, not its weaknesses. If you want to talk about T4’s shortcomings, there are plenty of other threads where you may express your opinion. (Many already have.) But do us a favor...just not here.

 

[mike wightman]

Likes:
the combat damage system
Emperor's Arsenal
Central Supply Catalogue
Imperial Squadrons
Pocket Empires
the psionics rules
the hardback Milieu 0

I still use all of the above in my games.

 

[aramis]

The only things I really like are the Psionics rules. I find alternate standard design looks a "doesn't really make a lot of difference to me, but adds verisimilitude at very little cost.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I really liked that they expanded upon the OTU in some very meaningful ways. they really added a lot of cool backstory and future story to the works.

The alien races they added were pretty neat. It's too bad they weren't able to further develop them.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[whulorigan]

I am going to echo Mike Wightman.

I like:

• The T4 Combat-Damage system
• Emperor's Arsenal
• Central Supply Catalogue
• Milieu 0

 

[Timerover51]

I like the distinction between military and civilian starship armament, and also the ability to use experience points to increase skill levels.

 

[Quint]

I'd also agree that Emperor's Arsenal, Central Supply Catalogue, Pocket Empires, and the hardback Milieu 0 were the highlights.

I'm going to go look at the psionics rules again now that they've been mentioned...

D.

 

[mike wightman]

Don't forget Imperial Squadrons, it complements Pocket Empires perfectly.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

For me it was the Milieu 0 Campaign Book and the color artwork panels.

Milieu 0 showed me how the 3rd Imperium worked, at least in the early days. This book showed me exactly Imperial Government involvement in various areas in an explicit manner. I find this lacking in renditions of sector books past and present, except for oddly Deneb Sector from Mongoose. Milieu 0 was not perfect. I found some of the writing convoluted, but it addressed far more issues on central government. OK enough fanboy gushing.

The color artwork was excellent. It reminded me of the covers of sci-fi books and the posters I saw in arts and crafts stores I saw as a kid prior to the release of Star Wars, which seemed to change everything.

 

[mike wightman]

There were/are two versions of Milieu 0 - the softback and the far superior hardback that has extra material in it.
The hardback is the one to get - which version is on the cd by the way?

 

[aramis]

There were/are two versions of Milieu 0 - the softback and the far superior hardback that has extra material in it.
The hardback is the one to get - which version is on the cd by the way?

It looks like 110 pages, and the cover scan definitely looks like the softcover.

 

[whulorigan]

There were/are two versions of Milieu 0 - the softback and the far superior hardback that has extra material in it.
The hardback is the one to get - which version is on the cd by the way?

Well, the softback was called Milieu:0, whereas the hardback was called Milieu:0 Campaign (and inlcuded First Survey).

And BOTH hardback and softback are on the CD.

 

[aramis]

Well, the softback was called Milieu:0, whereas the hardback was called Milieu:0 Campaign (and inlcuded First Survey).

And BOTH hardback and softback are on the CD.

I was only vaguley cognizant of which was which; I've only had the T4 CD (checks the date) 2 days now.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

The Milieu 0 Campaign has additional material like the section on Imperial Expansion, sector by sector, decade by decade. Very interesting and useful in explaining little things like why the Imperium did not expand to Terra or the Spinward Marches until much later in history.

 

[Timerover51]

This and another thread peeked my interest enough to pick up some of the T4 material from DriveThru. Now to find the time to go through it.

 

[Reynard]

Definitely Milieu 0 Campaign was (is) a highlight to experience the OTU beginnings if the Empire which also teaches empire building.

Pocket Empires (and Imperial Squadrons) caught me big time as a great empire builder game. The information fleshed out worlds and empires and you could watch them evolve as time goes by. By the time I cross referenced the relationship scores of every world, I had a complex understanding of the 'mentality' of an empire. That's a lot and it was fun! I know Marc took some elements into T5 and I would love to see Pocket Empire remade for T5.

 

[ManOfGrey]

Thank you for participating.

Thank you everyone who has participated in this poll. Like most people who conduct polls, I had several preconceptions of how this poll would turn out. And, also like a lot of people who conduct polls, I had those preconceptions turned on their heads somewhat. Thank you all for teaching me something.

Now that it’s been over a week, and the number of people answering the poll has started to dwindle, I’d like to take a minute to look over the data collected, and ask a few pointed questions if I may, (although many have been already answered.)

Obviously the big winners were Milieu 0 and Pocket Empires, (along with a big write-in vote for Imperial Squadrons.) I personally didn’t find this much of a surprise. Both are often mentioned in other forums and threads. One of the interesting things I find about this particular result is how much more well received Milieu 0 and Pocket Empires seems to be over the original RPG that spawned them. I don’t know if anyone else has an opinion, but I thought Reynard’s post above was an eloquent explanation as to why.

What did catch me by surprise was how well the psionic rules were received. (Apparently I, myself, am not psionic in the least…otherwise I would have seen this coming.)

Lastly, I did notice an interesting “discrepancy.” Granted, the number of people who answered positively were comparatively low, so it may just be a statistical anomaly…but the idea of the task system using different number of dice, (poll question #1,) seemed to be better received than the idea of using multiple dice to determine range in combat, (poll question #5.) As someone who has taken to designing his own RPG, and who puts different skill and combat systems under the microscope, I’m genuinely curious as to why. Would anyone care to elaborate? Granted, many have either criticized, or lauded, the concept in other threads. But I would think these two concepts, multiple dice as applied to tasks or combat, should score about equally. You either love both, or you hate both. Not one over the other.

Does anyone prefer the task system over the combat (to hit) system in T4? And why?

 

[McPerth]

Thank you everyone who has participated in this poll. Like most people who conduct polls, I had several preconceptions of how this poll would turn out. And, also like a lot of people who conduct polls, I had those preconceptions turned on their heads somewhat. Thank you all for teaching me something.

Now that it’s been over a week, and the number of people answering the poll has started to dwindle, I’d like to take a minute to look over the data collected, and ask a few pointed questions if I may, (although many have been already answered.)

I didn't vote. Not because I didn't find interesting the poll, but because I don't know most of the publications told about. I guess few of them reached Barcelona (or at least the shops I then frequented). I must admint though, that by then I was not as active in gaming as I've been before (real life took precedence).

My (not really educated) guess is that MT sold well in Barcelona, and when TNE appeared, shops were ready to invest on it. I guess it was a true fiasco, as most of Barcelona gaming groups and fans were in the torches and pitchforks side (yes, incluiding myself). So, again my guess, when T4 appeared, most shops showed little interest in investing on its products, and few of them reached those shops.

Obviously the big winners were Milieu 0 and Pocket Empires, (along with a big write-in vote for Imperial Squadrons.) I personally didn’t find this much of a surprise. Both are often mentioned in other forums and threads. One of the interesting things I find about this particular result is how much more well received Milieu 0 and Pocket Empires seems to be over the original RPG that spawned them. I don’t know if anyone else has an opinion, but I thought Reynard’s post above was an eloquent explanation as to why.

And yet not even those star products have been voted (at least to now) by more tan 50% (though as the question is What's the Best, people may just not wanted to check too many boxes)...

Even so, my conclusión on that is that people liked more T4 as background books to be used for other Traveller versions than as a RPG by itself...

As said, not knowing most of the books (and so not daring to really vote), I'd say that the best of T4 is that it kept the flame of Traveller and (excuse me for that, and not wanting to start a version war) that it definitely killed TNE.

 

[ManOfGrey]

Perhaps I should elaborate.

Perhaps I should elaborate.

In reading McPerth’s reply above, perhaps I am assuming too much. Please forgive me for taking a moment to elaborate on T4’s task and combat system, for those who may not be as familiar with it.

In earlier Traveller products, to succeed at a skill, or task, (including to succeed in a “to hit” roll in combat,) a player would have to roll dice, (typically 2d6,) and achieve a pre-determined number, or greater. In T4, by contrast, to succeed in a skill, or task, (including a “to hit” roll,) the player would have to roll dice and achieve a pre-determined number, or lower.

For example, if you wanted to break into a computer system, had a skill of computer-2, and an intelligence of 8, in T4 you would have to roll a (8+2) = 10 or less. If it was a “normal” computer system, you might have to roll 2d6. If the computer system you were trying to break into was more formidable, the referee might have the player roll 3d6 instead, because the task is more difficult. Obviously it’s far easier to roll 10 or less on 2d6, (with an average of 7,) than it is on 3d6, (with an average of 11.) In T4, this is how the skill system simulated easier and more difficult tasks – instead of adding modifiers to the number you rolled, they added, (or subtracted,) dice to make the outcome less, (or more,) likely.

Combat in T4 was handled in a similar fashion. To achieve a successful hit, a player had to roll a target number or less. But instead of subtracting a modifier from a roll due to range, in T4 the longer the range, the more dice were required for the roll, thus making the outcome less likely at longer ranges.

In the poll above, more people seem to like the concept of how the task system worked in T4 better than how the same system was applied to combat. I’m just curious if anyone had any insight as to why.

 

[aramis]

Reasking it with "Tick all aspects that you liked about T4" and you'll likely see a different answer set. And ask the reverse, "tick all aspects you dislike," as well, with the same list, and you'll not see the inverse of either of the first two in most cases.

See, for me, I'd still answer "what did you like" with ONLY those two I ticked in "liked best"... I think the rest of the system, in total is a complete and utter waste of paper, except for Psionics, the new ships, FF&S & dervations, and Pocket Empires.

So for me:

Liked Best: Psionics, new ship appearances
Liked at all: Psionics, new ship appearances, interior art, Pocket Empires
Disliked: Everything except Psionics, new ship appearances, interior art, Pocket Empires, Level 0 and JoT, QSDS, SSDS2 and FF&S2
Disliked most: Task system Including Att Based TNs.

Psionics was briliant. It returned to Classic level functionality, but without the tables being so requisite. And the expansion added a bunch of new talents to add. I ported it to MT as is without issues... except that ZTMs now scared the * out of my players.