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I mean based on Cannon rules. On a cost accounting basis I see cargo space and maybe Low berths. Pretty much J1 with a way to carry a J1 worth of fuel in the cargo hold so can it do a J1 + 1 when needed and in the tonnage range Grav_Moped has sussed out. Maybe an optimal number of LBs based in trade rules as they can earn more than freight, tonnage wise. No or little other passenger space due to costs.
Not as conductive to adventures as no mysterious passengers but economics would cause those design changes I think.
LBB2 rules as written, you get a median ship in the 400-600Td size range doing J-1. Almost all freight is J-1.
You don't get cargo ships bigger than about 3KTd, and those are on the heaviest-trafficked routes.
Passengers (staterooms) cost Cr2990 per jump, incorporating:
- amortized financed cost of the stateroom over 40 years -10% for class discount
- life support costs
- NOT counting opportunity cost of cargo (for comparison purposes only)
- NOT factoring in the cost of a steward or medic (for a basic freighter up to a Type R, they're fixed costs).
They are more profitable than cargo at mid-passage rates, if occupied.
Revenue for 4 tons cargo: Cr4000. Revenue per ton: Cr1000
Net revenue for a mid-passenger: Cr5010. Revenue per ton: Cr1252
given the established baseline (Cr1000/ton)...
a stateroom is 250K over 40 years of payments, so 1/240 is Cr1041.67/mo, plus the loss of 4Td potential Cr4000, plus annual maintenance of Cr250. It charges Cr8000...
and has an op cost of Cr2000 (CT1E, empty or full, CT2E only when full). Thats Cr3291.67 in costs, and 4000 is the value as cargo space. Sums up to Cr7291.67
In Mid Passage mode for Cr8000 (and small ships need no stewards for mids), that's Cr708.33 more coming than the value as cargo space if you can keep it full.
Adding a steward adds 1/8 × Cr3000 for the steward, and 1/8 the steward's cost off 7291.67. That's an unpleasantly high number: Cost per HP SR is +1286.46 if, and only if, you have 8 SR.
But it allows adding HP at +Cr2000 each.
If you're on a route with steady passenger rolls for highs, it's quite workable to have staterooms. No more than 8, but if so...
Rounding up to next Cr0.01
Now, adding HP in less than 8... Cr7291.67 MP base cost
0 HP: +0000.00 for a cost per MP of Cr7291.67, clears Cr708.33
8 HP: +1286.46 for a cost per HP of Cr8578.13, clears Cr1421.87
7 HP: +1470.23 for a cost per HP of Cr8761.91, clears Cr1238.09
6 HP: +1715.28 for a cost per HP of Cr9006.95, clears Cr993.05
5 HP: +2058.34 for a cost per HP of Cr9350.01, clears Cr649.99
4 HP: +2572.92 for a cost per HP of Cr9864.59, clears Cr135.41
3 HP: +3430.56 for a cost per HP of Cr10722.23, in the hole Cr722.23
2 HP: +5145.84 for a cost per HP of Cr12437.51, in the hole Cr2437.51
1 HP: +10,291.67 for a cost per HP of Cr17583.34, in the hole Cr7583.34
As long as you can keep 4 HP full... High Passages are good money along J1 mains... but they're not as good as MP unless you have 6 or more filled of the 8 for the steward.
Semi-canon
T20 THB adds two additional passage levels, for use outside the 3I, or as a variant in the 3I.
Mid Passage Doubles at Cr6500 per person, High Passage Doubles at Cr8000. This requires doubling the LS cost for the SR..
TNE adds Steerage - passengers in cargo space or up to 4 per SR, at a lower price; ISTR Cr3000 each, but I'm not looking it up.
Note High Guard designs and T20 designs have some other issues.
a stateroom is 250K over 40 years of payments, so 1/240 is Cr1041.67/mo, plus the loss of 4Td potential Cr4000, plus annual maintenance of Cr250. It charges Cr8000...
and has an op cost of Cr2000 (CT1E, empty or full, CT2E only when full). Thats Cr3291.67 in costs, and 4000 is the value as cargo space. Sums up to Cr7291.67
In Mid Passage mode for Cr8000 (and small ships need no stewards for mids), that's Cr708.33 more coming than the value as cargo space if you can keep it full.
Adding a steward adds 1/8 × Cr3000 for the steward, and 1/8 the steward's cost off 7291.67. That's an unpleasantly high number: Cost per HP SR is +1286.46 if, and only if, you have 8 SR.
But it allows adding HP at +Cr2000 each.
If you're on a route with steady passenger rolls for highs, it's quite workable to have staterooms. No more than 8, but if so...
Rounding up to next Cr0.01
Now, adding HP in less than 8... Cr7291.67 MP base cost
0 HP: +0000.00 for a cost per MP of Cr7291.67, clears Cr708.33
8 HP: +1286.46 for a cost per HP of Cr8578.13, clears Cr1421.87
7 HP: +1470.23 for a cost per HP of Cr8761.91, clears Cr1238.09
6 HP: +1715.28 for a cost per HP of Cr9006.95, clears Cr993.05
5 HP: +2058.34 for a cost per HP of Cr9350.01, clears Cr649.99
4 HP: +2572.92 for a cost per HP of Cr9864.59, clears Cr135.41
3 HP: +3430.56 for a cost per HP of Cr10722.23, in the hole Cr722.23
2 HP: +5145.84 for a cost per HP of Cr12437.51, in the hole Cr2437.51
1 HP: +10,291.67 for a cost per HP of Cr17583.34, in the hole Cr7583.34
As long as you can keep 4 HP full... High Passages are good money along J1 mains... but they're not as good as MP unless you have 6 or more filled of the 8 for the steward.
Semi-canon
T20 THB adds two additional passage levels, for use outside the 3I, or as a variant in the 3I.
Mid Passage Doubles at Cr6500 per person, High Passage Doubles at Cr8000. This requires doubling the LS cost for the SR..
TNE adds Steerage - passengers in cargo space or up to 4 per SR, at a lower price; ISTR Cr3000 each, but I'm not looking it up.
Note High Guard designs and T20 designs have some other issues.
Hadn't run the numbers on high passage yet, myself.
Looks like we're pretty much in agreement for the rest, give or take a credit or two.
IMTU, High Passengers wouldn't book double-occupancy, though Mids could and probably would. Double-occupancy doubles LS costs per SR, Steerage would quadruple it (and would require purpose-built SRs or the equivalent; regular SRs would be impractical at quad occupancy and wouldn't have the LS capacity in any case).
Steerage in cargo space would require some kind of modular 0-G porta-potty, an air scrubber, folding bunk-bed cots, and a case of MREs. There are various pressurized and non-pressurized shelters in LBB3 that could be used, or the small craft cabin from LBB2 if you wanted to.
Passenger staterooms adds more rolls for revenue, so adds more profit!
Passengers don't add much more revenue per ton, but decreases the chance of going empty. That time that the cargo rolls turns up snake-eyes, passengers adds more independent rolls that are unlikely to also be snake-eyes.
Out in the boonies, where Free Traders roam, you don't get many passengers, so you probably don't want all that many staterooms. Perhaps 4-5 staterooms including a steward?
Yes, that is bad usage of the steward, but the steward gets you another roll for passengers, ensuring that it is much less likely that the staterooms are unoccupied. An unoccupied stateroom is more expensive than a steward...
Also note that you don't get much Incidental freight lots, so freight generally comes in 5 Dt lots. The last few tons of cargo will rarely be filled.
[m;]Remember - you can nominate posts for the reference section[/m;] (we copy them in, not move them in). It's one of the allowed uses of the Report Post feature.
Passenger staterooms adds more rolls for revenue, so adds more profit!
Passengers don't add much more revenue per ton, but decreases the chance of going empty. That time that the cargo rolls turns up snake-eyes, passengers adds more independent rolls that are unlikely to also be snake-eyes.
Out in the boonies, where Free Traders roam, you don't get many passengers, so you probably don't want all that many staterooms. Perhaps 4-5 staterooms including a steward?
Yes, that is bad usage of the steward, but the steward gets you another roll for passengers, ensuring that it is much less likely that the staterooms are unoccupied. An unoccupied stateroom is more expensive than a steward...
Also note that you don't get much Incidental freight lots, so freight generally comes in 5 Dt lots. The last few tons of cargo will rarely be filled.
You do NOT want a steward for 4 passenger berths. You'll lose money that way. Unless you're where you can rely upon HP, ditch the steward for an extra mid.
You do NOT want a steward for 4 passenger berths. You'll lose money that way. Unless you're where you can rely upon HP, ditch the steward for an extra mid.
You are assuming all passenger slots are always filled?
If you roll for passengers LBB2 style, the extra roll for High passengers is vital.
Example:
You have 4 staterooms available. You go from a pop 5 world giving you 3D-2D Mid and 2D-1D High passengers.
With no steward you get an average of 1.4 empty staterooms, going full ~50% of the time.
With a steward (and 3 passenger slots) you get an average of 0.2 empty staterooms, going full ~90% of the time.
The steward is profitable. He helped [o]fill 0.8 staterooms[/o] reduce vacancies on average, increasing passenger revenue from kCr ~15 to kCr ~21 per jump (after life support).
You are assuming all passenger slots are always filled?
If you roll for passengers LBB2 style, the extra roll for High passengers is vital.
Example:
You have 4 staterooms available. You go from a pop 5 world giving you 3D-2D Mid and 2D-1D High passengers.
With no steward you get an average of 1.4 empty staterooms, going full ~50% of the time.
With a steward (and 3 passenger slots) you get an average of 0.2 empty staterooms, going full ~90% of the time.
The steward is profitable. He helped [o]fill 0.8 staterooms[/o] reduce vacancies on average, increasing passenger revenue from kCr ~15 to kCr ~21 per jump (after life support).
If you aren't averaging enough to keep them filled, then a steward is even less welcome.
You only want a steward when you have 4 or more high passengers on average; until you're averaging 6, you're still better off leaving that room for a mid rather than putting a steward in it, and there are usually more mids than highs available.
They are more profitable than cargo at mid-passage rates, if occupied.
Revenue for 4 tons cargo: Cr4000. Revenue per ton: Cr1000
Net revenue for a mid-passenger: Cr5010. Revenue per ton: Cr1252
Thanks guys. In MgT there is a ship option that changes the Stewart paradigm.
"Luxuries cost Cr. 100,000 per ton, and make life on board ship more pleasant. Each ton of luxuries counts as one level of the Steward skill for the purposes of carrying passengers, and therefore allows a ship to carry middle and high passage passengers without carrying a trained steward on board."
This would make a difference in the High Passenger costs.
So maybe 4 LBs, 4 passenger staterooms, 1 ton of "Luxuries" and the rest cargo for smaller ships.
You only want a steward when you have 4 or more high passengers on average; until you're averaging 6, you're still better off leaving that room for a mid rather than putting a steward in it, and there are usually more mids than highs available.
Empty staterooms makes no money. Without a steward there is only a single roll for stateroom passengers, and you will often run empty staterooms.
The alternative to carrying a steward is not carrying another mid, it is very often just a (few) empty stateroom(s), costing money and earning nothing.
The steward pays his way, not because high passengers are more profitable, but because he reduces vacancies and keeps the ship full much more often.
Interesting. Yes, after buying most of MgT I refused to repurchase when they decided to scrap their first game so immediately. They are however part of the official SRD
If you are running MgT1 rules, even Mid passengers needs attention from Stewards. 1 Dt luxuries is good for two High, five Mid, or any combination, so you probably need two Dt luxuries.
Also I believe you can potentially get a lot more passengers with MgT1 trade rules, so you probably want more staterooms.
Which canon rules. as this will affect the answer.
Since I am happiest with the CT77/81 rules then my take on it is this:
you need enough staterooms to always have a full passenger complement on your regular routes
you need a cargo hold big enough to carry the largest items speculative trade will throw up (the proviso is you have enough cash to speculate freely) and you back fill with the freight lots you can pick up.
It's then a matter of playing the percentages so you can estimate what you will have available as a minimum, on average and as a maximum.
A rich group of PCs can earn a lot of money if they have the seed money, get lucky with the speculative goods available that week, and have a ship that has a high enough jump number to allow them access to worlds with favourable trade codes.
Note also that a higher jump number allows more chance of getting more freight, since you roll for freight available to each world in range of your jump number.