• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

What's YOUR Core Rule Book Reboot?

Were I to reboot MgT core...

1) Move small craft design from HG into the core.

Yes on this from me, too.

2) genuinely decent art, not the barely passable stuff Mongoose seems to like
Quality art is inspirational. It shouldn't overpower the rules, like it does in a lot of fantasy rule books, but it should highlight them.

When I brought my Spica Career Book 1 to a game, EVERYONE homed in immediately on the Religious Militant by David Redington. "I don't know what he is, but I want to be one!" was the drift of the comments. Each of the character classes in that book has an illustration that features a personality that you can read into the features and stance of the character. Not all of them are as dramatic as the Religious Militant, but they convey the idea of a personality. It's not just a drawing of a generic person with accoutrements to show that they're a person who uses those accoutrements, or an expression of this year's sensibilities of style placed in a futuristic setting.

4) The longer form of events tables from Spica Career Book 1

Yes!

5) Make personal damage rules match CT 2E
5.1) This includes no weapons with Xd+Y, only Xd

Yes to this, too.

6) use letter step damage for ship combat, rather than the Dinged/down/replace-it of current
As an alternate, yes.

7) Add 1-2 more subcareers to most careers
8) Add more alternate drive techs in the core
8.1) clearer keyhole rules (mimic Alderson drives)
8.2) add starfire/trek style fixed PSL M-drives

Yes to these as well.

8.3) 2300 stutterwarp
Haven''t used it in play, so I'm neutral, but I like having alternatives.

9) move the better Fission PP rules from HG into the core
10) Power points instead of the current PP requirement rules

This is an extension of making the ship system more unified, and I'm for it. If the Core book is going to see expansion, I think bringing in some of the more advanced mechanics whether as alternatives in core or as part of a revamped overall system is good.

When I shift from core ships to HG-style gearhead ships, I'd like it to be a greater level of detail and control, not a rule shift that breaks the old designs or makes them hard to equate with the detailed designs.

11) MT/2300 Task Mechanics, but adjusted slightly.

Task variant in spoiler (for space reasons)
Spoiler:
The variant task mechanics I'd use (differences from MT listed):
Attribute DM=Attribute/3 (rather than Attribute/5), round down
Change difficulty levels to
Impossible (can't be done)
Staggering = 21+ (Can only be done by taking extra Time)
Formidable = 19+
Very Difficult = 16+
Difficult = 13+
Average = 10+ (corresponds to 8+ level in MGT
Routine = 7+
Easy = 4+
Simple = 1+ (Automatic unless hasty task)​
Exceptional success or failure is made/failed by 3 or more (instead of 2 or more)
Mishap roll results
1-3 None (1d3-1% repair cost, Simple repair)
4-6 ding (1 point of correct scale) (1d6% repair cost, Routine repair)
7-9 Minor (1d6 points of correct scale)(2d6% repair cost, Moderate repair)
10-12 Moderate (2d6 points of correct scale)(1d6%x5% repair cost, Difficult repair)
13-15 Severe (4d6 points of correct scale)(1d6%x10 repair cost, Formidable repair)
16-18 Destroyed (8d6 points of correct scale)(1d6%x25 repair cost, Impossible repair)
19-21 Rubbled - (16d6 points of correct scale) (can't be repaired - no longer present)
22+ shattered/absent/fine red mist - 32d6 damage if insistent. Nothing there to be repaired.

I like the current task mechanics as the standard. Not far off from the implied CT system or the UGM. My players pick it up quick and it's not hard to accomodate lots of situations in play. Perhaps if I'd spent more time with MT I'd have more appreciation for its system. *shrug*

Great and well thought out post (as always), Wil!
 
A few (unquoted) points.

MT craft design was quick because of the presentation, which, aside from the original Book 2, has never been matched. I blame DTP software for this, as it has driven larger typefaces and less fine-tuning over time. I would endeavor to replicate the MT design presentation flow in a reboot.

I *like* MGT's stepped scale efficiency of drives in the sub-2000 ton range, so the flat percentages of most other editions in that range are actually less attractive to me. On the other hand, the TL modifiers to ship components, while a heroic effort to avoid tables of "stuff", may have simply made the whole system unverifiable.

MGT already incorporates a few of the character generation ideas from TNE. Emulating a few more would certainly not be a problem as an option.

Can we stop the cycle of mutation of the animal encounter rules? Every edition since CT has tweaked the animal building tables a little, and most have done so in defiance of attached modifiers, described procedures, and, frankly, biology. It has reached the point where the current versions cannot replicate reality. IIRC, only carnivores get armor under current rules, so you can't replicate an armadillo, pangolin, porcupine, or ankylosaur.
 
Can we stop the cycle of mutation of the animal encounter rules? Every edition since CT has tweaked the animal building tables a little, and most have done so in defiance of attached modifiers, described procedures, and, frankly, biology. It has reached the point where the current versions cannot replicate reality. IIRC, only carnivores get armor under current rules, so you can't replicate an armadillo, pangolin, porcupine, or ankylosaur.
All animal types roll for armor in the current rules (pg. 71, first sentence of second paragraph.)

However, I have to say that I don't use the current rules to create creatures, they just don't produce results I find interesting. So I fall back to designing the creature first, then giving it characteristics to match the design.

On the current system:
The planetary quirks are the most interesting item and the strongest guidance to the nature of the creature. Yet they're planetary, meaning they apply to everything that lives there. Every animal I roll up for Grue 1107 is a nest-stealer? Who builds them, extraterrestrials? Obviously the system isn't intended for build ecosystems, but just the occasional one-off creature, in a supposed more general (and less well defined) environment.

Weapon -6 DM for herbivores? Yeah, right! There isn't much of anything I know of that benign. Anything from the size of a hamster on up can hurt you bad enough that you don't want to mess with it.

That's on top of the lack of variety overall. There's a lack of the exotic or unexpected everywhere but in the short lists of planetary quirks. When I roll up a creature, all I get is something that comes out as an ordinary, familiar creature with a few quirks. I look at the results and say, "Uhhh, I guess it's a groundhog with sensitive hairs? But no...no claws. Hmm. Clawless groundhog with senstive hairs?" I should get a better image of what the thing is or could be.

What I do:
For plants, I use a system that mixes and matches traits for plant encounters and plant-like resources for planets. Every item that comes out is interesting enough to use. With a bit more work I could associate specific characteristics and skills with each trait (with scaling by size) so that I don't have to work that out on a case by case basis each time, as I do now. I use a computer program, but it's based on d66 die rolls.

I've been looking at doing something similar for animals, since I've been happy with the results of the plant system.

Originally I used a system based on the old Eon game Quirks to do iterative creation of creatures and plants using traits with different scores for different environments. I used the scores to determine what environments the plants and animals lived in, and the relative strength of the score to determine which were dominant.

Building creatures is so fun and easy this way it's like building subsectors--in an afternoon you can generate more than you can use in a campaign (allowing me to pick and choose my favorites for the game.)

Now I typically skip the iteration, and just build some organisms and place them. The iterative process allows for genetic variation of the organisms over time as a result of competition, radiation, etc., and it gets to be a distraction. ;)

Edit: I now see that the creature creation is about 80-90% the system from Traveller Starter Edition. Kudos for going with a system that's established CT "canon" as a base, but the original CT '77 system, a close sibling to the Starter Edition, didn't excite me, either. I built my own creatures then attached the CT terminology to them afterward. I did use in-game skills and weapon equivalences at build, though.
 
Last edited:
Handy charts on the endleaves.

Skills and Specialties list/quick reference,
Task flowchart,
Combat Flowchart,

aaaannd...

something else (what?)

It'll save me taping my own charts in there. :)
 
I would also scale the shipbuilding in the core book to 20,000 tons so there could be some big ships about. Granted, these 20,000 tonners would be dreadnoughts...

A few (unquoted) points.

MT craft design was quick because of the presentation, which, aside from the original Book 2, has never been matched. I blame DTP software for this, as it has driven larger typefaces and less fine-tuning over time. I would endeavor to replicate the MT design presentation flow in a reboot.

I'm glad someone could figure out MT ship design. I got two steps in, got confused by its lack of clarity on what I was supposed to add and gave up.
 
I'm glad someone could figure out MT ship design. I got two steps in, got confused by its lack of clarity on what I was supposed to add and gave up.

That lack of guidance about what belonged was the greatest weakness of the MT unified craft design. But once you figured that out, the tables had just enough prompting to let you move through them very quickly. The typeface and arrangement of tables meant that, for ships at least, the resulting process was only slightly slower than the CT systems Had they broken ships out from vehicles there would have been no such problem.

Revisiting the MGT systems, I would drag the drive extensions and many other non-military components from MGT-HG down to the core, but leave the percentage-based drives of the big ships in their own process. The big ships need some help, being entirely too fragile, but that isn't a core book issue.
 
Skills changes

Streamline skills.

E.g., is Gun Combat(slugthrower carbine) at all necessary? In my many years of experience as a part-time firearms instructor, no. There's nothing significant enough about this skill to distinguish it from Gun Combat(slugthrower rifle). Also, I teach separate shotgun and rifle classes, but I don't think there's enough difference to break them out. The shotgun is covered in the rifle instruction, the shotgun class itself is mostly for folks who don't want to spend time on rifles, and want to spend more time talking about chokes, loads, etc. specific to their uses of the shotgun.

I'd prefer it reduced to:
Gun Combat(slug long gun)
Gun Combat(slug handgun)
for the slugthrowers.

Drop Zero-G weapons from Gun Combat.

Melee--consolidate Unarmed and Natural Weapons.

Weapons Engineer specialties are too fine-grained for the game as well. It could easily be reduced to (small arms), (heavy weapons), and (automated). Or just reduce it to a single specialty within Engineering: Engineering(Weapon Design).

Arts (more properly Fine Arts) could have its specialties reduced to something like Performance, Visual, Plastic, Conceptual.

Eliminate specialties within Combat Engineering. Perhaps make it a specialty of Engineering.

Eliminate specialties under Interrogation.

Trade() is a mess. Provide a few very general areas and leave it at that. E.g.,
Trade(construction)
Trade(manufacturing)
Trade(processing)

Seafaring specialties need cuts, too:
Seafaring (small craft, wind driven)
Seafaring (large craft, wind driven)
Seafaring (small craft, motorized)
Seafaring (large craft, motorized)
Even that may be too much. I could see consolidating both wind-driven specialties into one.

Tactics: eliminate specialties.

Robotics belongs under Engineering.
Space Sciences in general should go away, add Astrophysics and Planetology under Physical Sciences. Xenology goes under Life sciences, or should be subsumed into Biology.

If there's going to be an Archery skill/specialty, make it a combat specialty, perhaps under Gun Combat. Yeah, it's not really a "gun", but that's better than putting it under athletics, IMO.

There are plenty of other possible cuts and shifts, too. Overall, I'd like to see the list from the core books reduced by about a third.

On the adds side...

Physical Sciences(Gravitics)
 
Ditto on the need to revise the skill list and both reorganize or do away with some of the specializations. I've written quite a bit about the problems with Engineering (Electronics) vs Physical Science (Electronics) on the Mongoose forum, its not the only problem area, there are too many specializations in the game currently. Traveller's skill system isn't that granular. I like the idea of having the various Science skills, but Mongoose unfortunately put them on the skill list and then used Engineer (Electronics) on the career skill tables and rules supplements instead of the appropriate science skill (an example being Engineer (Electronics) to design cybernetics instead of Life Science (Cybernetics) and Space Science (Robotics) never gets used for anything.). That all needs to be carefully rethought and reworked.

Redundant Skills thread at Mongoose Forum

As far as adding a college option to the game, I'm currently experimenting with using something almost straight from CT. Qualify for college, takes 4 years. You get 1 skill (for now from your intended career service skills, may create a college table of skills) plus test your INT to get Effect added to your Edu stat, and a qualification bonus to some careers. Also, College does not count against the character for # of previous careers when qualifying for a new career. Still tinkering with the idea but that's the gist of it.

I also agree the 3 options per career format either needs to be dumped or at the very least seriously rethought. As has already been pointed out, there's a lot of needless duplication and just plain silliness in the current tables. Also, all the Mishap and Event tables need to be updated to the expanded 2d6 and d66 formats.

Am also experimenting with changing Terms to work as follows (also inspired from CT).
Qualify for term
Select or Roll for skill from appropriate skill table.
Advance to 2nd year of Term
Roll Survival and generate a Mishap or Event
Advance to 3rd year of Term
Roll Survival and generate a Mishap or Event
Advance to 4th year of Term
Roll Survival and generate a Mishap or Event
Check for Promotion (once per Term, Events may provide additional promotions)
End of Term
Continue in Career automatically, change careers or muster out.
Rinse & Repeat.

Somewhat mimics the CharGen from CT - HG, Scout, Merc & MP. Can provide some extra skill points (from events), more contacts and allies, more events (good and bad) for color in char background. Needs play testing however.
 
BardicHeart--ditto to what you said.

Good thinking on the college career.

Presently when I set a fixed number of terms for characters I assume a two year term for failed terms (anything that causes ejection.) Then I allow an extra term for each one or two failed terms.

That is, if I set a limit of 4 terms for characters, if a character fails out of one or two career terms, they get one additional term. Three or four terms, they get two additional terms.

This helps level the playing field when a group of characters is being formed with fixed numbers of terms. Particularly when I'm starting the characters as children, with ages established at that point in the game, then, after the child adventure difference characters get different numbers of terms depending on their relative ages as children.

I wrote an article on this for Freelance Traveller, though I use a more developed system based on what's in the article now that acts pretty much like a Career for child characters with Events, Benefits, etc. It also accomodates NPC generation better now.

Anyway, I like being able to level things a bit when a fixed number of terms is used for chargen. It's no fun having a player start out with a character they feel is gimped by a couple of bad survival rolls when given a small limited number of terms, while watching everyone else roll promotions and commissions and all. Granted, some skill often comes off the Mishap chart, which has a levelling effect, but the characters that make their rolls get a lot more when using limited terms.
 
It's no fun having a player start out with a character they feel is gimped by a couple of bad survival rolls when given a small limited number of terms, while watching everyone else roll promotions and commissions and all. Granted, some skill often comes off the Mishap chart, which has a levelling effect, but the characters that make their rolls get a lot more when using limited terms.

Sounds like you are not allowing any of the skill or promotion rolls for terms with a failed survival roll. As written, failing a Survival roll only does three things: Force a career change, remove the Muster Out roll for that term, and replace the Event roll with a Mishap roll.
 
Sounds like you are not allowing any of the skill or promotion rolls for terms with a failed survival roll. As written, failing a Survival roll only does three things: Force a career change, remove the Muster Out roll for that term, and replace the Event roll with a Mishap roll.

Quite possibly out of habit from CT/MT/TNE... where a failed survival in fact does preclude commission/promotion rolls.

A more explicit statement in the rules would prevent much of that.
 
Quite possibly out of habit from CT/MT/TNE... where a failed survival in fact does preclude commission/promotion rolls.

A more explicit statement in the rules would prevent much of that.

True. Part of the problem conceptually is that MGT combines the CT Survival roll with the Reenlistment roll but continues to call it by the first name.

I've used both "full length" and 1d4 years as the length of a failed term, but I tend toward the full length in MGT since a number of the mishaps have fallout that can take a while to resolve in real life. Many of them are also quite educational, so I have no problem keeping the other rolls and skills for a term. That stuff doesn't all cluster at the end of a term.
 
True. Part of the problem conceptually is that MGT combines the CT Survival roll with the Reenlistment roll but continues to call it by the first name.

I've used both "full length" and 1d4 years as the length of a failed term, but I tend toward the full length in MGT since a number of the mishaps have fallout that can take a while to resolve in real life. Many of them are also quite educational, so I have no problem keeping the other rolls and skills for a term. That stuff doesn't all cluster at the end of a term.
Actually, it combines promotion and reenlist, not survival and reenlist.
And really, that's the biggest irritant of it. No more retired 2LT's ...
It enforces an Up or Out policy that wasn't present in CT, MT, TNE, T4, nor T20.
 
Actually, it combines promotion and reenlist, not survival and reenlist.
And really, that's the biggest irritant of it. No more retired 2LT's ...
It enforces an Up or Out policy that wasn't present in CT, MT, TNE, T4, nor T20.

I recall it being present in the original High Guard in some form, but I may be misremembering.

You are thinking of the Advancement Roll. You don't have to keep being promoted in MGT, but your Promotion/Advancement checks start to climb. If *that* roll is equal to or less than the number of terms in that career, you're out. In the Army Infantry career, for example, you can manage a 5 or 6 term Lt, but you would have to get the Commission from the ranks in that last term (having soaked up an earlier Advancements in the Enlisted ranks) then fail the Advancement roll. Your Commissioned Rank would still be 1 (Lt), but your total rank for the purposes of mustering out would be higher.
 
Once you hit certain thresholds, it's up or out. The only up-or-out in CT that I can think of is Administrator ranks in Bk6.
 
You're right, that's what I've been doing. On a failed survival roll I have the character roll on the Mishap table, take what it gives, then they're on the street.

I'll have another look at the rules. The fact that I plated CT for about 30 years before trying another version of Traveller clouds my vision sometimes. ;)

I wasn't aware that there was still a skill roll and a promotion roll.

OK...just looked at the rules. I see the skill roll comes before the survival roll. However, promotion is step 8, which is skipped on a failed Survival roll.

So failed survival doesn't take away the term's skill roll, but it does remove the Event and Promotion rolls, as well as commission roll, if any, by my reading.

This correction couldn't have come at a better time. I've got some players rolling up characters tonight.
 
Back
Top