Only if NASA isn't involved...
Why didn't Vland expand coreward or spinward?
- Thread starter McPerth
- Start date
Only if NASA isn't involved...
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Look at it this way. If the Vilani had expanded to coreward, and either never came into contact with Terra, or came into contact with Terra much later, where would the initial hook for the game be?
How easy would it have been to sell the Imperium game, which also came out in 1977, if it was between two amorphous alien empires, with no relation to Terra whatsoever?
How easy would it have been to sell the Imperium game, which also came out in 1977, if it was between two amorphous alien empires, with no relation to Terra whatsoever?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Meta reasoning is much more obvious.
That said, space empire games were not uncommon in the late 70s and early 80s, and very few of them expressly involved Earth.
All the ones I can think of have earth, except Cosmic Encounter and warp war.
The ones coming to mind being Starfire, Federation Space, Imperium, Fifth Frontier War, Dune, Berzerker, Buck Rogers XXV C...
I am curious to hear which didn't....
Metagaming's Holy War (like Warp War) also did not involve Earth (it took place in a Pocket Universe between the "Sunthrowers" and the "Eltani [Holy Band]").
We have no canon ships from the early Vilani, but we do know a few things which I think dictate Vilani ship design. In turn this dictates Vilani exploration and expansion until the development of J2. But even then, knowing our conservative/hidebound Vilani, somethings would not change...
B. Vland has NO Gas Giant - The Vilani saw Gas Giants in the early pre-jump colonies and NAFAL exploration, but I contend they would have brought their own fuel with them. All the time. Most ship production would have been out of Vland so I suggest that early ship design would not have something as "risky and radical" as fuel scoops and processors. Processors and scoops would have to be tested outside the Vland system at the very least. So early ships would have 23% allocation to Jump1 (3% drives, 20% to go somewhere and back). Once the design to get to leave and get back, I do not think this would have changed often.
B. The whole "dim the lights prior to jump" - what was this back in the early days? Less efficient Power Plant or Jump Drive? Did they have to match (using Book 2 terms) a Power Plant C to support a Jump Drive B or something like that from a gaming design context? Was it a lack of Fusion Plus?
In the modern 1105 context it is just a "tradition", but back then it had actual performance significance, so much so that the tradition has been kept over 10,000 years, even though it is likely the inefficiency has been found and designed out (by those funny Terrans, if not the Vilani)
B. Vland has NO Gas Giant - The Vilani saw Gas Giants in the early pre-jump colonies and NAFAL exploration, but I contend they would have brought their own fuel with them. All the time. Most ship production would have been out of Vland so I suggest that early ship design would not have something as "risky and radical" as fuel scoops and processors. Processors and scoops would have to be tested outside the Vland system at the very least. So early ships would have 23% allocation to Jump1 (3% drives, 20% to go somewhere and back). Once the design to get to leave and get back, I do not think this would have changed often.
B. The whole "dim the lights prior to jump" - what was this back in the early days? Less efficient Power Plant or Jump Drive? Did they have to match (using Book 2 terms) a Power Plant C to support a Jump Drive B or something like that from a gaming design context? Was it a lack of Fusion Plus?
In the modern 1105 context it is just a "tradition", but back then it had actual performance significance, so much so that the tradition has been kept over 10,000 years, even though it is likely the inefficiency has been found and designed out (by those funny Terrans, if not the Vilani)
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C. Crossing any rift is a pain in the ass. Early ships have J1 and only J1 - using T5 rules or MgT High Guard options or GT:IW Jump 0.25 you might be able to squeeze different performance but "standard" designs are TL9 J1 or TL10 J1. Far range exploration ships will have bring fuel storage tanks of some kind with them to do "the crossing". Combined with the "bring it with you" concept, another 20%+ taken up by spare fuel tankage...
D.With A in place, most ship designs would have 22% allocated to Jump and fuel
Jump 1 2%, 2 J1 jumps worth of fuel 20%, 2wks travel
The invention of Jump 2 drives would might have been seen as an efficiency/speed improvement because designs would only change and have to take into account 1% loss of other space
Jump 2 3%, 1 J2 jumps worth of fuel 20%, 1wk travel
D.With A in place, most ship designs would have 22% allocated to Jump and fuel
Jump 1 2%, 2 J1 jumps worth of fuel 20%, 2wks travel
The invention of Jump 2 drives would might have been seen as an efficiency/speed improvement because designs would only change and have to take into account 1% loss of other space
Jump 2 3%, 1 J2 jumps worth of fuel 20%, 1wk travel
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
If I read the tea leaves correctly, the new Herpestesian jump drives doubled in size. And the Vilani could still manufacture them with less than optimum efficiency.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I recall both Stellar Conquest and Holy War's bigger brother Godsfire being Earth free, as well. My impression of the vast and constantly growing SPI and Avalon Hill collections was that some of their space games included Earth, on the map or nearby, and some did not.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
SOC-13
It's important to remember that just because a device can exist at a certain Tech Level, it does not mean that a society working in isolation from outside influence will develop it. The history of Charted Space is filled with examples of TL9+ civilizations who never got around to cracking the mystery of FTL travel without outside help, for example.
And regarding the Vilani in particular, their conservatism -- particularly in regard to potentially dangerous or disruptive technologies -- should never be underestimated. The Vilani version of 'impossible' might be more accurately defined as 'it has been agreed that this is not worth pursuing'.
J1 to J2 is a 50% increase in volume of drive to achieve a 100% "speed" increase was one way of looking at it.
What is Herpestesian?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Mongoose is the popular English name for 29 of 34[2] species in the 14 genera of the family Herpestidae, which are small carnivorans that are native to southern Eurasia and mainland Africa.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Where do they get their fuel from on Vland? Water, ammonia, methane etc.
They may well balk at the idea of gas giant skimming but finding a source of water, ammonia or methane in a system is a pretty easy thing to do. So taking a processor on a ship can pay off, just no need for scoops since you wouldn't risk that.
Or perhaps they didn't put the processors on ships, but carried them as cargo and built starports on their newly explored worlds before moving on to the next system. That would slow down expansion.
Exactly my point Mike. The environmental factors of their star system and their NAFAL experiences would determine their "best practices", going forward.
Gas giants would exist only as fantasy worlds until their science detects their existence via science instruments. Then speculation begins on the possible economic exploitation of the bodies, but it is all still speculation until one could be examined up close.
In The Meantime
The exploration/exploitation of space in the Vland system would go on without the use of a Gas Giant. And before the first NAFAL exploration they will have been doing it for a while employing best practices, technologies and techniques with what works.
I am not sure if the outer planet Luukad would solve the problem in the early days. While it has a methane atmosphere, it is the outermost planet in the system. It is HZ+4 using T5 terms. Can you refuel off of it on the way outsystem whether by NAFAL of Jump?
Gas giants would exist only as fantasy worlds until their science detects their existence via science instruments. Then speculation begins on the possible economic exploitation of the bodies, but it is all still speculation until one could be examined up close.
In The Meantime
The exploration/exploitation of space in the Vland system would go on without the use of a Gas Giant. And before the first NAFAL exploration they will have been doing it for a while employing best practices, technologies and techniques with what works.
I am not sure if the outer planet Luukad would solve the problem in the early days. While it has a methane atmosphere, it is the outermost planet in the system. It is HZ+4 using T5 terms. Can you refuel off of it on the way outsystem whether by NAFAL of Jump?