Originally posted by eclipse:
Agreed.[snip snip]
By changing class, you are changing the focus & direction the character is taking. That should be reflected in the character advancement.
Your Class Skills are those of the current class you are taking a level in.
At least, that's what I do
Why not multiclass?
- Thread starter Borodin
- Start date
The D&D core rules has restriction for multiclassing (aka multiclass penalty rule), but each d20 product can either apply or ignore the multiclass penalty rules, if it suitable for their game.
In T20 case, it does not apply (as specifically mentioned on page 34).
May I remind you that you can use any Wizards' core rulebook to play T20, and in their non-fantasy core rulebooks (Star Wars, Call of Cthulhu, and d20 Modern), they don't have the same multiclass penalty rules presented in D&D fantasy core rules.
Ah, sorry, didn't mean to confuse. What I meant is say you have a Rogue2, you max out his hide/move silently/search/forgery (the most rogue-ish skills, IMO). But that's starting to look awfully one dimensional, so you want to get some more skills and pick up a level (or 3) of traveller, or merchant, or academic, or whatever, and pick up some other skills, a half dozen Tech skills, for example. Then you go back to rogue and bump up your rogue-ish skills again as much as you can.
Obviously, this is a bit min/max-ish, but it is quite easy to come up with roleplay explanation. This is my usual method, I confess, but it works for me. As long as the character still has a solid character base, I have no problem with it.
Anyway, yes, I recalled the revocation of the multiclass penalty in the THB, which makes me wonder still why you wouldn't multiclass. Ah well, that's the way it works I suppose. No real complaint, I was just wondering if anyone had a compelling reason not to.
Not a problem, the additional discussed helped clear up some other minor questions I had about chargen.
As for not mulitclassing, well I've created a Sydite Belter-9 whom never muliclassed that I'm quite happy with as he's quite good as a Gunner & Pilot, which a decent set of tech skills. He more then mets the vision I had for the character concept.
Kerry
justacaveman
SOC-12
The PHB page 57 says that the maximum rank for a class skill is is your level +3. This refers to class level, not character level. Character levels don't have class skills. Futhermore, if the class you're increasing has the skill as a cross-class skill, it will cost you 2 skill points to raise the skill by 1 rank. If the skill is a class skill in more than 1 class, the total of those class levels can be used to determine the maximum skill rank (according to WOTC Sage Advice).
The skills you raise are directly related to the class levels you have.
Example 1: A 1st level Fighter/10th level Rogue could have a maximum Move Silently skill of 13 (13 ranks for Rogue , 1/2 rank for Fighter).
Example 2: A 1st level Rogue/10th level Fighter could have a Move Silently skill of 9 (4 ranks for Rogue,5 ranks for Fighter).
Example 1 costs the character 13 skill points for 13 ranks, and example 2 costs the character 14 skill points for 9 ranks.
If it wasn't this way, everyone would have 1 level in a bunch of classes for the class skills, then raise the class with the highest Hit Points and BAB with no penalty at all.
The skills you raise are directly related to the class levels you have.
Example 1: A 1st level Fighter/10th level Rogue could have a maximum Move Silently skill of 13 (13 ranks for Rogue , 1/2 rank for Fighter).
Example 2: A 1st level Rogue/10th level Fighter could have a Move Silently skill of 9 (4 ranks for Rogue,5 ranks for Fighter).
Example 1 costs the character 13 skill points for 13 ranks, and example 2 costs the character 14 skill points for 9 ranks.
If it wasn't this way, everyone would have 1 level in a bunch of classes for the class skills, then raise the class with the highest Hit Points and BAB with no penalty at all.
justacaveman
SOC-12
Whoops, sorry, bad math.
The maximum Move Silently rank for the 1st level Rogue/10th level Fighter is 10 (4 ranks for Rogue, 6 ranks for Fighter). The cost is 16 skill points for rank 10.
Note: In example 1, I did not actually expend a skill point to get 1/2 rank for the 1st level fighter, as it would be wasted.
While the difference isn't that much, the points add up when you increase a lot of cross-class skills. And, the Rogue gets more skill points to spend.
The maximum Move Silently rank for the 1st level Rogue/10th level Fighter is 10 (4 ranks for Rogue, 6 ranks for Fighter). The cost is 16 skill points for rank 10.
Note: In example 1, I did not actually expend a skill point to get 1/2 rank for the 1st level fighter, as it would be wasted.
While the difference isn't that much, the points add up when you increase a lot of cross-class skills. And, the Rogue gets more skill points to spend.
I do agree that on that page they did not specify which "level" to apply.
Nevertheless, page 22 of the PH shows a chart that determines the maximum rank of class skills and cross-class skills.
The only exception is class-exclusive skill (class skill that is used by one or more particular class that cannot be taken as a cross-class skill). Only such skill do you apply the relevant class level.
justacaveman
SOC-12
OK my bad.
The max rank is Character Level +3. The cost to raise the rank is based on the class you raised to get the skill points.
Thus: A 1st level Rogue/10th level Fighter with Move Silently +14 must spend 24 skill points to reach that rank (4 points as Rogue, 20 as Fighter).
You can find this info on page 55 of the PHB under "How Multiclassing Works".
The max rank is Character Level +3. The cost to raise the rank is based on the class you raised to get the skill points.
Thus: A 1st level Rogue/10th level Fighter with Move Silently +14 must spend 24 skill points to reach that rank (4 points as Rogue, 20 as Fighter).
You can find this info on page 55 of the PHB under "How Multiclassing Works".
That's true enough. But your 1st level Rogue can start with Move silent 4 for 4 skill points. He can then take, say, 3 Fighter levels, spending whatever points he gets on Fighter skills. Whereupon he can take another Rogue level and spend 4 more Rogue level skill point getting his Move Silently up to 8, and so forth.
Your 1st level Rogue/10th level Fighter will indeed have to spend 24 points to get Move Silently 14. But a 4th level Rogue/7th level fighter can have Move Silently 14 for 14 points.
Hans
justacaveman
SOC-12
Absolutely correct.
The examples just point out that you can't take 1 level in everything and be just as good in as many specific skills as a more specialized character.
Also if you have a high INT, and pick up a lot of skill points, you could spend whatever amount of points you like on a skill as long as you don't exceed character level +3. A Rogue with INT 18 receives 8 skill points per level gained.
Example: 5th level Marine receives some covert ops training and takes level 1 Rogue as his 6th Character level. The character could immediately put all his skill points into Move Silently. So a Marine 5/Rogue 1 could have Move Silently +8 for only 8 skill points. A bit Min/Max, but technically correct.
The examples just point out that you can't take 1 level in everything and be just as good in as many specific skills as a more specialized character.
Also if you have a high INT, and pick up a lot of skill points, you could spend whatever amount of points you like on a skill as long as you don't exceed character level +3. A Rogue with INT 18 receives 8 skill points per level gained.
Example: 5th level Marine receives some covert ops training and takes level 1 Rogue as his 6th Character level. The character could immediately put all his skill points into Move Silently. So a Marine 5/Rogue 1 could have Move Silently +8 for only 8 skill points. A bit Min/Max, but technically correct.
Guys,
You are wrong. I quote from page 56 of the PhB which governs skills for multiclassed characters (and thus governs T-20 MC characters).
The catch is that you pay though the snout for this privledge. Specifically while a Navy 11 character would have paid 14 skill points, the Navy 1/Rogue 10 character will have paid 24 points for it....but it is legal.
In short, you can buy a skill to character level +3 even if the skill is cross-class for the class you are getting (in this case Rogue) as long as it is a class skill for any class you currently possess. [Naturally you pay cross-class prices though.]
People get this wrong all the time and I just don't see that it is all that complicated (pet rant).
-Polaris
Edit: Sorry, after rereading the prior page, I see that you did (finally!) reach the same conclusion that I just posted above. However, IMHO the way it was said was confusing. Just refer to my quoted material above. That straightens everything out.
FWIW, you can in fact take advantage of MCing to 'have your cake' and 'eat it too' in terms of skills.
You are wrong. I quote from page 56 of the PhB which governs skills for multiclassed characters (and thus governs T-20 MC characters).
What this means is that a Navy 1/Rogue 10 character can have a T/Engineer skill of 14 ranks because T/Engineer is a class skill for the Navy. It doesn't matter that it is not a class skill for the Rogue....the Navy level opens up the possibility of 14 ranks.
The catch is that you pay though the snout for this privledge. Specifically while a Navy 11 character would have paid 14 skill points, the Navy 1/Rogue 10 character will have paid 24 points for it....but it is legal.
In short, you can buy a skill to character level +3 even if the skill is cross-class for the class you are getting (in this case Rogue) as long as it is a class skill for any class you currently possess. [Naturally you pay cross-class prices though.]
People get this wrong all the time and I just don't see that it is all that complicated (pet rant).
-Polaris
Edit: Sorry, after rereading the prior page, I see that you did (finally!) reach the same conclusion that I just posted above. However, IMHO the way it was said was confusing. Just refer to my quoted material above. That straightens everything out.
FWIW, you can in fact take advantage of MCing to 'have your cake' and 'eat it too' in terms of skills.
