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Why play TNE?

kafka47

SOC-14 5K
Marquis
As a librarian, I get a chance to see many books before the rest of the general public (save editors, publisher reps, etc). Occasionally, I come across a title that really resonates...although, I am not likely to read it.

So think of Hard Times, TNE or Twilight when you read this description...

When Giants Fall

In When Giants Fall, Panzner makes his case for the turbulent economic changes that will be occurring over the next few years and examines the resulting economic opportunities.

According to Panzner, the economic changes will be widespread. Businesses will struggle amid wars, shortages, logistical disruptions, and a breakdown of the established monetary order. Individuals will be forced to rethink livelihoods, lifestyles, living arrangements, and locales. Political structures will be in flux, as local leaders gain influence at the expense of national authorities. For many people, it will be nothing short of a modern Dark Ages, where each day brings fresh anxieties, unfamiliar risks, and a sense of foreboding.

However, for those enlightened few who understand what is really going on and what happens next, the chaotic years ahead represent the opportunity of a lifetime - a time when they can realize goals they never thought possible and achieve a level of wealth, security, and inner peace that will leave them head-and-shoulders above everyone else. In this book, Panzner offers cutting-edge insights and strategies that will enable readers to stay well ahead of the game during the uniquely unsettling period ahead.

From the Inside Flap

Once the embodiment of prosperity, the United States now finds itself in a precarious position. With its financial system in shambles and global standing on the wane, many believe we are witnessing the end of the American era. In When Giants Fall, author Michael Panzner puts the coming age of post-American dominance in perspective, and addresses the far-reaching effects it will have on our lives, as well as the economic opportunities that will arise from it.


With this timely guide, Panzner describes how widespread economic changes—the product of growing conflict and wars, shortages, logistical disruptions, and a breakdown of the established political and monetary order—will impact businesses as well as investors, and discusses why individuals will be forced to rethink livelihoods, lifestyles, and living arrangements. He makes the case that for many people this will be nothing short of a modern Dark Ages, where each day brings fresh anxieties, unfamiliar risks, and a sense of foreboding.

However, for those enlightened few who understand what is really going on and what will likely happen next, the chaotic years ahead may well represent a singular opportunity—a time when you can realize goals you never thought possible and achieve a level of wealth and security that leaves you head-and-shoulders above everyone else. But to do this, you will have to understand how things got to where they are today and, more importantly, how they will play out in the future. When Giants Fall answers these and many other essential questions. From an examination of key economic, political, geopolitical, and social issues to the realities of earning a living, protecting and preserving wealth, running a business, and looking after loved ones, this practical guide provides a straightforward and comprehensive game plan for surviving—and thriving—in the uniquely unsettling years ahead.
The road ahead will be fraught with challenges that will be impossible for anyone to ignore or avoid—regardless of their current circumstances. But if you understand what's going on, set out a viable plan, and remain focused, you can get through these troubled times unscathed. Engaging and informative, When Giants Fall offers cutting-edge strategies and much-needed direction that will allow you to achieve financial security and stability in an increasingly uncertain and dangerous world.
 
Tne

I like the system just do not care for the universe it portrays. So I use it in my own Traveller Universe.
 
As soon as the U.S. involvement in Iraq started to get messy, everyone around here wanted to play TNE. The context added a lot of perspective, and allowed people to experiment with a lot of different philosophies that they didn't necessarily encounter in real life.

And that's what good SF RPGs are for.
 
Why play TNE?

The rules system

1) CharGen

Except GURPS the TNE Chargen is IMHO the best of the Traveller Breed combining a resonably fast system with a lot of player input. It gives a good number of career choices all on the same "detail level" (unlike Mega) while skipping most of the "random generated character" elements from Classic and Mongoose.

2) Game system

Fully integrated and fast skill and combat system well-tested and useabel for modern combat and skill resulution due to it's T2K V2.2 base. Easily understood and memorable "worth" of skill levels, simple and easy task/task resultion systems (At least for those you can multiply by 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 / 8) Infantry combat is dangerous but not too deadly, Infantry vs. vehicles is well scaled. Integrates with Ship and Squadron fleet combat rules (Brilliant Lances, Battlerider) and large scale Tactic game (Striker II) and the

3) Material

Excellent construction system in FireFusionSteel, good equipment books/lists with RefCol Equipment Guide, Regency Vehicles etc. In addition to that the equipment books for T2K V2.2 can be used and quite a few external supplements also had T2K stats

Setting

1) Size / RefCol Setting

It's a small setting. Unlike most Traveller settings you start out with a mostly blank map and a young, easily digested (If you can read 4-6 pages without loosing attention) environment and then explore out.

2) Aggression level

The setting is more aggressiv than the peaceful 1105 setting and less deadly than the "Giants clash" HardTimes setting. Good for those players who want to solve some problems without endless talking, diplomacy and riddle solving while still giving (some) living space to the riddle fans

3) Tech

Traveller IMHO has always been about "Man solving problems" rather than "Man's maschines solving problems" and the low TL / low availability of tech in the setting puts that focus in quite nicely. And with technology in the background it's easier for those players can't quote chapter and verse of a second rate 1960s SciFi show to get into playing SciFi

Problems

TNE has some problems as well. Most can be solved by a GM using his brain (Granted that seems optional equipment in some younger GM) others only come up for those used to older Traveller editions (and then they are harder to solve)

1) Heplar drives (Big problem)

The fuel guzzlers that replace the Thruster plates are a major change from earlier and to most later editions and change ship designes and some game play.

2) Weapon changes (Big problem)

The FFS tech is more "realistic" when it comes to space missiles, plasma/fusion and lasers.

3) Skills to Attributes relation (GM using Brain)

The matching of skills to attributes is sometimes questionable. Languages with Charisma and Mechanic with Strength are the two classics IIRC. But a smart GM can change that (really you can) either permanently (Language) or on a case by case base (Mechanic)

4) Very general skills (GM using Brain)

Some skills are rather general. Either split the skills i.e. "Mechanics/Panzer VII Maus", "Mechanics/Small time-fuses for attache cases" or make a note where the skill comes from (the TNE chargen sheet will IIRC have that action if used) and have the player act on that (Yes player, you are not there to abuse a system)

Conclusion

TNE is a nice background for a group that is not composed of dedicated Traveller fans but rather of players that want a nice fun campaign in a SciFi setting. It gives a GM all the depth, history and material on the Traveller universe without forcing players to read 100+ pages to get a grip on it.

The system is rugged, easily explained and the most needed rules fit on 2 A4 pages so players can learn and use them.
 
I like the TNE system as such, but have major gripes with the starship combat section, as at the time I found it to be complex. Vehicle and weapon design was too complex and most importantly too time consuming. I also didn't like Heplar as I couldn't believe that a civilisation, such as the Third Imperium, which is built upon the ruins of even older civilisations would still be burning plasma to get around. Heplar is ok though as a hybrid/intermediate tech drive though should dissapeer from use after tech 10
 
I like the TNE system as such, but have major gripes with the starship combat section, as at the time I found it to be complex. Vehicle and weapon design was too complex and most importantly too time consuming. I also didn't like Heplar as I couldn't believe that a civilisation, such as the Third Imperium, which is built upon the ruins of even older civilisations would still be burning plasma to get around. Heplar is ok though as a hybrid/intermediate tech drive though should dissapeer from use after tech 10

Speak more on this.

Is the starship combat in the core rules what you didn't like? Or is it Battle Rider, Brilliant Lances, or Fuel, Fire & Steel?

Was the core book space combat system really too complex?
 
the starship combat rules in the core rulebook, we're too complex in my opinion, and my experience. I have no problme with Brilliant Lances/Battlerider as they were marketed as a strategic space combat game in their own right, in which case the additional levels of complexity would appeal to their core audience, mostly hard core, highly simulationist gamers that appreciated the extra levels of detail and options.
 
Jeffr0,

As Cmdr. Drax wrote, space combat - even basic space combat - in TNE was extremely complex. The amount of record keeping needed for even a small ship was daunting.

Movement was greatly constrained by the HEPlaR retcon and the need to compute g-turns. You had to keep a running fuel balance for all the vessels involved, it was no longer the simple matter of Fuel = Movement/No Fuel = No Movement as it had been previously.

While I did like the more realistic weapons TNE introduced, the damage those weapons inflicted was again extremely detailed. After you completed an extremely detailed ship construction effort, you'd also have to create a 3D model of sorts for the ship. You place all the ship's various subsystems, and there are a lot of them, into a "sphere" noting that Component A is located forward-ventral-port-exterior, Component B located aft-dorsal-starboard-interior and so on. "Helping" you in this effort is that fact that certain components have certain location-based requirements; HEPlaR thrust bells must be aft and exterior, sensor arrays must exterior but their processors can be elsewhere, etc.

As Drax writes, while this is a space combat wargaming gearhead's dream it doesn't really meet the needs of a roleplaying group. Spending hours constructing a simple tramp trader and its uber-detailed component "map" is hours wasted on preparing for actual game play.


Regards,
Bill
 
I found it TNE space combat to be just too detailed even for boardgame play, and BL just way too much work... at the time, I was an avid SFB player, and would routiney run 1000-2000BPV (major battle fleets; cruisers run 125-210 BPV) fleet battles.

To say they are/were fiddly is an understatement. Very realistic, tho'. VERY realistic.
 
I think everything boils down to those damn HePLaR thrusters.

I don't have a problem with most of the other aspects noted above - I'd venture that most players will be using existing designs of ships, so much of the prep for weapons placement, etc, would already be done.

Similarly, a decent GM can keep things moving at a decent clip - I don't recall starship combat being that radically different from the original; it just provided a lot more detail if you wanted to go there. It was the fuel consumption and tracking all that which always bothered me.
 
Jeffr0,

I was more than just HePLaR and fuel consumption for me. Granted, I haven't looked over either the basic combat system or BL in years. I found the damage resolution system not worth the effort either, the work needed to create the 3D "interior map" I mentioned wasn't worth the detailed damage results you got in turn.

You'd determine just where incoming fire struck the vessel, something like what you'd find in Avalon Hill's Trobruk. After you determine where the weapon struck, you next plotted the path of the damage as it penetrates further into the ship. For example, after striking the forward-port-ventral surface(1) a laser strike would first destroy an exterior sensor array, penetrate the hull, destroy the stateroom just inside, destroy the fresher next door, and then badly damage the galley across the passageway, while smashing the coffee pot.

This system provides extremely detailed damage description, but a good GM could do that on their own with deckplans and a little imagination. The system is nice to have, but it isn't entirely necessary and the amount of work it requires shouldn't be an integral part of a game's basic ship combat system either.

Leaving my few gripes about the ship combat system aside, there were many parts of TNE that I think are excellent. Path of Tears is the finest roleplaying supplement I have ever read. I even hold it in higher regard than the magnificent Aurora sourcebook for 2300.


Regards,
Bill
1 - The strike locations were called out according to numbered areas on the surface of a sphere.
 
Leaving my few gripes about the ship combat system aside, there were many parts of TNE that I think are excellent. Path of Tears is the finest roleplaying supplement I have ever read. I even hold it in higher regard than the magnificent Aurora sourcebook for 2300.

Yep - there is much more that is good than not. I always looked at the higher level of detail as "nice to have" - if you wanted to go there, there is probably a rule for it (and this held true for melee and vehicle combat as well), but don't let it get in the way of the game. If it does, then you're probably not having fun.
 
In my view TNE had the best character generation system of all Traveller ver-
sions, including GURPS Traveller, and there are a few points (e.g. Higher Edu-
cation careers) where it is still better for the purposes of my setting and cam-
paign than the Mongoose Traveller I now use.
 
I always looked at the higher level of detail as "nice to have" - if you wanted to go there...


Jfetters,

The problem with TNE's space combat system is that you don't have a choice of whether you can go there or not. The level of detail I've written about in my last two posts is the only option. It is the basic system and not an option that can add detail if you so wish.


Regards,
Bill
 
Jfetters,

The problem with TNE's space combat system is that you don't have a choice of whether you can go there or not. The level of detail I've written about in my last two posts is the only option. It is the basic system and not an option that can add detail if you so wish.


Regards,
Bill

And it is sufficiently "Critical Hit" oriented, that abstraction to a simpler system really is non-intuitive.
 
Jfetters,

The problem with TNE's space combat system is that you don't have a choice of whether you can go there or not. The level of detail I've written about in my last two posts is the only option. It is the basic system and not an option that can add detail if you so wish.


Regards,
Bill

Yeah, you're right - I went back and looked at it and some other notes from waaaay back - I think it was wishful thinking on my part at the time. ;)

I remember trying to use the MT damage tables, but like aramis said, it didn't really make any sense unless you were really playing fast and loose.
 
This post comes with a huge caveat; in case anybody doesn't know, I'm a big TNE fan. I post this opinion, not to defend TNE or to argue with people but because I'm a bit confused.
I LIKED the TNE starship combat and did not find it hard to use in play. The group I play with know played TNE and they shared the view that it was too complex and unwieldly.

I don't REMEMBER house ruling it or making easy flow charts to run it or anything, but maybe I did? I'm willing to accept that this comes under weird personal quirk territory. It clearly wasn't popular and there must be a reason for that. But am I the only one who liked it and looked forward to its use?
 
I really liked TNE and specially the possibilities FF&S gave the game. I found starship combat very good, but a tad too detailed if you play with more than a couple of starships per side.

I usually use my own designs during play and thus also have more detailed hit charts on the sheet for the starship. Thus saving time and frustration about rolling hit locations that do not exist on the target ship. I.E. screens or MFD or whatever.

As MT was my first version of Traveller, I really never understood the MT starship combat, and largely ignored it. I have briefly looked at HG version and never liked that one either, just because of the similarities between them.

I like the character generation, however I miss the random element from MT.
 
I LIKED the TNE starship combat and did not find it hard to use in play. The group I play with know played TNE and they shared the view that it was too complex and unwieldly.

I don't REMEMBER house ruling it or making easy flow charts to run it or anything, but maybe I did? I'm willing to accept that this comes under weird personal quirk territory. It clearly wasn't popular and there must be a reason for that. But am I the only one who liked it and looked forward to its use?

Well, I know that I enjoyed playing Brilliant Lances in and of itself. Like Bill & aramis have mentioned, it was unweildy if you were in an adventure and trying to get from point A to point B and a ship comes out of the dark and tries to shoot you. Most folks aren't going to unpack BL and start at that in the middle of a session. Bill & aramis' posts unlocked a bunch of memories that I'd just as soon forget. :)

The basic sequence of events wasn't all that bad - acquire target, get a lock, fire/attempt evasion. It was if you hit that all the lookups and accounting started, and where I thought BL actually had the advantage - you have your data sheet in front of you and can pretty quickly tally your damage based on what weapon hit you.

And then there are the missles...
 
Overall I found the quality of writing to be very good throughout nearly all TNE products, who can forget 'Path of Tears' and the excellent 'Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide'. The Regency Sourcebook, whilst not perfect was still very good. I compare this to the 'pap' that mongoose has been pumping out and it's plain to see that TNE is a much superior product and one that I would like to use, but don't due to the added layers of complexity in certain sub-systems such as Starship Combat.

At present I am using T4 rules, as these use the TNE technical assumptions, that I like, and also have rules for Thruster Plates whilst recapturing some of the simplicity of Classic Traveller. Not to mention it is very easy to customise with house rules. In comparison to TNE, T4 is definitely a lower quality product, but it is more playable when it comes to starship battles etc.
 
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