Imperial Navy Uniforms

[Blue Ghost]

I go with whatever pics I can find that looks good off the net...usually from the mid1800's to the beginning of ww2...for dress uniforms anyways. Think the Emperor wears tons of medals like military junta generals do?

I always figured the Emperor would have a clean look. It's the wannabe-nobles who wear all the decorum... them and the military (note; my niece recently married into a military family, and the admiral wore his dress whites with all of his medals to the wedding).

 

[Tysis]

Well growing up in the military (my father served for 24.5 years) I can tell you there are a lot of regulations regarding uniforms.

A dress uniform is essentially a replacement for a suit, and I think you are supposed to wear all your decorations.

I remember a conversation with my father regarding "work clothes." If I remember correctly, military personnel were not supposed to wear things like BDUs (the camos, basically) off base in public areas. I do not remember this ever being enforced.

 

[jawillroy]

The way things are shaking out IMTU, the Imperial Navy's uniform will differ pretty drastically depending on what part of the Navy you're in. Those assigned to capital ships will be in blues, with lots of shiny stuff and sashes for command officers. Patrol duty ship crews get blues, but not so much of the shiny dressy stuff: quarters are too close and faces too familiar on a T-ship for anything so formal.

Fighter pilots IMTU go off the rails with uniforms: there's a whole culture of noble foppery surrounding the Gallant Fighter Pilot. Think 17th century cavalier gone utterly mad. Mustachioes. Baldrics for their rapiers. Floppy hats. Really shiny combat armor.

The upper echelons try to keep a lid on it, but there's only so much you can really do: after all, most of those dandyish young men are as good as dead once the fighting actually starts.

 

[aramis]

Jawillroy:

you're essentially describing the difference between class-b (office) and class C (working) uniform.

Tysis: by 1987, the army had removed the prohibition on BDU's off-post. In '72, the restrction on fatigues was to/from post and on duty only. (My dad was on active duty then.)

 

[jawillroy]

Jawillroy:
you're essentially describing the difference between class-b (office) and class C (working) uniform.

Pretty much. But don't forget class-f (fop). A key element of chrome IMTU!

 

[Tysis]

Jawillroy:

you're essentially describing the difference between class-b (office) and class C (working) uniform.

Tysis: by 1987, the army had removed the prohibition on BDU's off-post. In '72, the restrction on fatigues was to/from post and on duty only. (My dad was on active duty then.)

Ah I see. My father retired in 1985.

 

[aramis]

So did mine, Tysis, so did mine.

I went through BT at Dix in 87... but had been a HS Navy JROTC cadet for 4 years prior, and a CAP cadet for 2. (I did 6 years as a CAP cadet, total.)

I have always had an affinity for reading regulations... and have, from time to time, downloaded the current uniform regs just to see how things have changed.

 

[Captain Seto]

If I remember correctly, military personnel were not supposed to wear things like BDUs (the camos, basically) off base in public areas. I do not remember this ever being enforced.

My buddies once asked me if I wanted to go to a movie off-base, JUST when I got off duty; I made the mistake of deciding not to change, in order to make the showtime.

My drill sergeant who attended the movie made sure I was aware of the regs.

 

[Higgipedia]

Well, as I understand it, the prohibition on the utility uniform does still exist, it's just not enforced to strongly. I recall as late as 2004, when I left the 82nd Airborne, the regulation stating that you could only be off post in BDUs after 1800 if you were picking up groceries and the like on the way home. Now, the 82nd had all kinds of rules the rest of the army has forgotten/never bothered with, so YMMV. Of course, now I work in SOF, and a lot of guys barely even wear uniforms to work, so...

IMTU, the increased militaristic bent of the Imperium would lead people to wear uniforms more often. I see it being like WWII where soldiers wore their uniforms out and home on leave. Of course, it'd be the dress/suit uniforms.

I see the Navy being the most ostentatious about it, given the more prominent position it holds, in addition to the fact that they rarely are getting dirty on the ground. The Marines and Army will be more simple. The "stepchildren" (COACC and Wet Navy) would probably have the simplest uniforms of them all, outside of the no-frills Scout Service.

I could see some Merchants adopting gaudy Navy-esque uniforms in as many cases as no-frills casual.

That's just my Cr.02

 

[aramis]

It is far more likely, Poolboy, that the commanding officer of the 82nd or the local base commander chose to enforce a standard tighter than the army regulations.

I don't recall seeing it in last year's PDF of the FM on Uniform regulations.

Likewise, I don't see the laxity of current practice being normative, either.

Then again, it looks like the navy is going ot BDU's for everyone, too.

 

[casquilho]

It is far more likely, Poolboy, that the commanding officer of the 82nd or the local base commander chose to enforce a standard tighter than the army regulations.

This statement made me think, with the Imperium as wide and vast as it is, could it happen that each fleet ends up having their own uniforms or at least their own version? With the various nobles each running what amounts to fiefdoms could the military shift that way as well?

Daniel

 

[CosmicGamer]

This statement made me think, with the Imperium as wide and vast as it is, could it happen that each fleet ends up having their own uniforms or at least their own version? With the various nobles each running what amounts to fiefdoms could the military shift that way as well? Daniel

That is certainly one of the possibilities.

IMO, Planetary navies would do their own thing.

I'm not sure what the deal is with subsector navies. Most of you own more materials than I do, so maybe you could explain... are they "sponsored" by the Imperial Navy; using the same training materials, procedures, etc. Do they get their ships and weapons through the Imperial Navy? Or are they totally separate entities getting funds and equipment from within their individual subsectors?

The topic of this thread is Imperial Navy Uniforms though.

One thought is that as the Imperial Navy spread and grew they would still try to maintain standardized training, discipline, procedures and uniforms. To compensate as they spread across the stars, and time/distance became a factor, changes to the uniform would have occurred less and less often and changes would be less dramatic. Changes could be specified to go into effect as of a certain distant date in the future to allow the spread out Navy time to receive changes and get them to their local manufacturers. Possibly over time, a certain "base" uniform (color, imperial emblem design and placement, rank) would be defined but certain local modifications (trim, buttons, additional markings) would be allowed. But I can also see widely varying uniforms because unlike our current world, military and culture that tries to have unity throughout, in Traveller people are mostly allowed to develop their technology, government and cultures independently. If the worlds across the Imperial realm of control are allowed such diversity with minimal interference, why shouldn't the Military be allowed less centralized control as well.

Personally, since I can see points in favor of all the options, I'd tend to go with something in the middle, so the uniforms would all be the same color even if not identical. The color would be Blue and possibly white, for the simple reason that if you use pictures and have someone thats not accustomed to YTU they would be more likely to make the connection that it is a navy uniform than if you use a color that is not common for our current worlds Navies.

Edited:Added:
Just thought of this. There could be multiple dress uniforms. An Imperial uniform standard throughout the Navy for Imperial functions and a subsector or fleet uniform for more local events.

 

[aramis]

There is some confusion in canon as to the subsector fleets.

On one hand, Bk5 states they exist. MT says no, reserve fleets exist.

Library data in CT implies they may exist.

IMTU, the reserve fleet is part of the subsector fleet, and is paid for by the Imperium, usually with seconded ships. The rest of the subsector fleet is built and paid for out of the subsector budget. the wole thing is a very professional service with imperial navy regulations, some uniform distinctions, and some different regulations. Missions are somewhat schizoid... piracy patrol in small ships, and supplementing the IN with big ships. The Subsector navies IMTU DO answer to the subsector duke, directly, rather than as a spur off the navy line, except when activated into the IN.

 

[Blue Ghost]

This statement made me think, with the Imperium as wide and vast as it is, could it happen that each fleet ends up having their own uniforms or at least their own version? With the various nobles each running what amounts to fiefdoms could the military shift that way as well?

Daniel

I actually mentioned this earlier in this thread.

 

[casquilho]

I actually mentioned this earlier in this thread.

Sorry if my asking the questions somehow offended.

Daniel

 

[aramis]

In the OTU, we have a definition of the rank insignia for joint services use (officers: one to three small silver sunbursts, then one to three larger gold sunbursts, then stars.)

In TD15, we are presented with the dot pattern system used by the marines for enlisted.
However, we see in TTA, in the image in the chapter In Search of Longer Legs, a chap with chevrons. Since we know the officer insignia are mandated, he isn't one...

We are told in MT that enlisted insignia vary by service and domain, and sometimes by sector.

Now, my take on the whole shebang....

there is one uniform manual for the imperium, and the Vilani approach was applied to the terran regs, most of which haven't changed much in 2000 years due to the Vilani impact.

Black or White upright collar tunic with a black or white light weight dress shirt, black or white trousers, skirt or kilt, black or white footware, and hat to match tunic in any of several styles, including peaked disk, flat-cap, folding beret, and dome beret (ala 1980's USN females). Socks, leggings, or hosiery worn must either match the trousers, skirt, or kilt, or must match the skin tone. The imperal suburst on left chest, left shoulder, and hat badge/cocade. Officer ranks indicated on shoulder straps, cuff stripes, or peaked cap ribbon stripes: 1-3 thin silver stripes or small silver sunbursts, or 1-3 larger gold stripes or sunbursts, or 1-5 stars of gold or a solid band of gold with silver stripes.

Duty uniform is a LDVS with insignia stenciled on. Officers and CPO's get a tailored TL14 Vacc suit instead, and junior ranks may self-purchase same.

Local uniform variations are allowed, especially for PT and off-duty uniforms. Note that uniform combinations may include different colors of tunic, shirt or trousers, but the hat matches the tunic, and the shoes the legwear... Black skirt, black shoes.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Sorry if my asking the questions somehow offended.

Daniel

No offense taken. Just pointing it out.

 

[zacharythefirst]

The Subsector navies IMTU DO answer to the subsector duke, directly, rather than as a spur off the navy line, except when activated into the IN.

This is pretty close to how I handle it IMTU. I also tend to have support (thought not 100%) from the IN, mostly in the form of ships that might have otherwise been mothballed or have been made obsolete through new fleet developments. They're still fine for running down/deterring pirates and acting as an augment to the IN when needed, though.

 

[BlackBat242]

Re the assorted comments on "uniforms unchanged for 250 years", "sector fleets have their own uniforms", "unit competition through uniform design", etc.


US Army in the Civil War.

Can anyone say "Zouaves"?

9th New York Volunteers:

5th New York:

11th Indiana:

114th Pennsylvania:

 

[BlackBat242]

The Rebels had them too...


1st Battalion Louisiana:

The term (and uniforms) were inspired by the Zouave units in the French Army... most of which were made up from North African tribesmen from the French African possessions.



As for the thread subject... Navy Blue for the prime color, with shipboard working being a medium gray with collars & sleeve cuffs colored to denote section/specialty (a minimalist form of the USN flight deck jersey scheme).

White for formal uniforms, and a mix of Navy blue & white for Mess dress.