Leading Edge of Exploration (or How Dumb Are Your Vilani?)

[OIT]

Introduction
The Interstellar Wars milieu is one to which I never paid much attention. However, Sturn’s Terran Dawn thread in this forum sparked me to go back and re-read the history part of AM6. That in turn led me to the Vegan entry in Library Data N-Z. The specifics are detailed below.

Canon References (CT)
Library Data N-Z dates the following elements of Vegan history:
-6000 (roughly 1500BC) Vegans receive the jump drive from Vilani traders
-4400 (about 100AD) The Vegans are absorbed by the First Imperium
- 2096AD Americans encounter Vilani prospectors at Barnard’s Star.
- Shortly thereafter (presumably after 2096 but before the 1st Interstellar War in 2118 although AM6 doesn’t assign a year) Vilani colonies are discovered, and dealt with (whatever that means), on Nusku and Gashidda.

Facts
Galuuda (1739 Diaspora) is 22-23 jumps from Terra at jump-2.
Muan Gwi (1717 Solomani Rim) is eleven parsecs from Terra.
Muan Gwi is 25 jumps from Galuuda at jump-1 (with deep space refueling).
Nusku and Gashidda are five and seven parsecs from Terra respectively.

Assumptions
Scouting missions should be able to extend 15 or so parsecs (six months or 25 jumps at a overall rate of advance of 0.5-0.7 parsecs per jump depending of astrography) from the nearest Class B starport to the frontier for a TL9-A society or 25-30 parsecs (six months or 25 jumps at a rate of advance of approximately 1.2 parsecs per jump) for a TL-B society.

Discussion
The timeline from first contact through the 1st Interstellar war just doesn’t sit right with me. I find myself confounded by the premise the First Imperium would have reached Muan Gwi (eleven parsecs from Terra) 3500 years before the Terrans invented the jump drive, colonized within five parsecs of Terra, and colonized as far rimward as Terra (Gashidda) in the Dingir subsector without having ever stumbled across a certain G2 star in the Sol subsector. Why? Should not long-range exploration missions have located the Solomani (at that time) minor race before, or at least shortly after, the founding of the first Vilani colonies in the Solomani Rim and long before colonization started in the Dingir and Sol subsectors?

Question
So, has anyone tried to explain this before?
- Were the Terrans somehow missed by Vilani scouts?
- Were the Terrans observed, yet for some reason not contacted by the human empire which had already successfully integrated several other human minor races?
- Were they contacted and given the jump drive by the Vilani and Solomani status as a major race in just revisionist history from the time of the Second Imperium?
- Did the First Imperium have a policy of just laying down colonies without exploring the subsector around the colony first?
- Did the Vegans have absolutely no interest in exploring the space around them?
- Is it just an example of poorly written, and broken, canon?

How have those who have done campaign or other work in this milieu dealt with it? Accepted it as written? Changed it? If so, how?

Personally I think it would be intriguing if the Vilani were just making their first forays into the Solomani Rim when the Terrans discovered the jump drive. The Sol and Dingir subsector would then be a patchwork of colonies under the auspices of different Terran nations, or independent, at the outbreak of the first Interstellar war, making the `Terran Confederation’ more closely resemble its’ name. The Vegans might have been given the jump drive after the 1st war by the Vilani in hopes of creating a client state as a buffer against the warlike Terrans. Would this not have made this milieu a more interesting place to adventure?

 

[BeRKA]

I guess we all have thought about this... Some ideas below... Just speculating, don't take my answers too seriously.
(If I had my copy of GURPS Interstellar Wars here, I would have looked for better answers.)

- Were the Terrans observed, yet for some reason not contacted by the human empire which had already successfully integrated several other human minor races?

The Vilani noted Terra as "Mostly Harmless", and then ignored it.

- Were they contacted and given the jump drive by the Vilani and Solomani status as a major race in just revisionist history from the time of the Second Imperium?

Nope, just like every other major race (except the Aslans) they found Ancient technology. (The Aslans acquired Solomani technology.) The revisionist part applies to every major race.

- Did the Vegans have absolutely no interest in exploring the space around them?

No, they did some exploring. It was the Vegans that crashed in Roswell.

 

[OIT]

The Vilani noted Terra as "Mostly Harmless", and then ignored it.

...and the word "mostly" was only added after a decade of intensive research in English pubs

Nope, just like every other major race (except the Aslans) the found Ancient technology. (The Aslans acquired Solomani technology.) The revisionist part applies to every major race.

Hmm, now that you mention it, the Droyne do resemble certain grey-skinned, anal-probe loving, UFO conspirist aliens.

No, they did some exploring. It was the Vegans that crashed in Roswell.

Aha!

 

[kafka47]

Question
So, has anyone tried to explain this before?

Yes, many times and each time, I come up with a slightly different explaination. So here goes.

- Were the Terrans somehow missed by Vilani scouts?

Yes, it is possible, just as they missed Prometheus (Alpha Centurai) - the interesting question is why? Well, I have always postulated that the Rim was where all the undesirables were sent an interstellar Australia (supported by Psionic Institutes where the Vilani sent their psi). And, what would be desirable about the Terrans when the Scouts were actively exploring the Rim but just like Australia, it would have to take the discovery of something significant to pull them there plus Lanthium is a rare earth meaning it is not in abundance on Terra perhaps this is the case for the whole sector further making the whole Rim a backwater. Or has been stated they visited found nothing of interest and then moved on (what is one more primative human race among all the others - just proof the Vilani are the Ancients in the Vilani mindset).

- Were the Terrans observed, yet for some reason not contacted by the human empire which had already successfully integrated several other human minor races?

I have always liked this model but I think one can go overboard with it. Leads to conspiracy theories like the Illuminati. Traveller needs these but only in small doses. Again, why were the Australian aborigines not integrated into European civilization just as the Huron nations were integrated by the French...different times, circumstances, hegemons. So, I see the same with the Vilani. Different bureaux would have different agendas, strategies and even outlooks.

- Were they contacted and given the jump drive by the Vilani and Solomani status as a major race in just revisionist history from the time of the Second Imperium?

Maybe but that would negate the whole First Contact thesis and fear (shock & awe) that the Vilani inspired and undermine the whole basis of the Interstellar Wars. Terrans are fundamentally different cultural and socially than the Vilani. It has to be the long struggle to explain all later Traveller history. And, again, I shy away from conspiracy theories.

- Did the First Imperium have a policy of just laying down colonies without exploring the subsector around the colony first?

Probably...there were many Roanokes in Vilani history especially when you go rimward. That lead to many colonies dying off. Also, factor in the backwater - why go there if there is nothing of value. Plus, if you had trouble with the Genoese why allow them an outlet rimward. And, there was another alien race that was causing trouble there. Why create more nightmares... The Vegans had to be pacified so it would limit the amount of colonization. And, if my premise that the Rim colonies was one giant penal system...you definately would want to limit interaction, lest they push for independence as many frontier client states were already beginning to corrode the Grand Empire.

- Did the Vegans have absolutely no interest in exploring the space around them?

Certain Vegan cultures (tuhirs) might have but that would have been limited by the Vilani who controlled the spacelines. Given that markets were Corewards they might limit their exploration to what were Vilani priorities as there was no evidence of full integration of the Vegans in the same way the Bwaps were.

Traveller provides the example of all sorts of visitations as being of possible Vilani/Vegan/Other invasions. Again, in the span of terran history - what do we know about Roman occupied Iraq...perhaps the pillars of Irem refers to a rocket being repaired...

- Is it just an example of poorly written, and broken, canon?

None of the above. Canon is simply not written. I might change that but it is just another example how Traveller confers flexibility even within the dictates of canon. It is a sandbox but you have to play nice.

 

[kafka47]

The Vilani noted Terra as "Mostly Harmless", and then ignored it.
...and the word "mostly" was only added after a decade of intensive research in English pubs

Or merely looked how it took the Terran innovation - 30yrs to get a commercial planetary computer network out to consumers... 50yrs of going to destroy themselves with thermonuclear devices rendering the planet completely exploitable (once one dons rad suits)... lots of ways that the Terrans would be harmless to the Vilani until they reached TL A (and look how long that took).

Quote:
Nope, just like every other major race (except the Aslans) the found Ancient technology. (The Aslans acquired Solomani technology.) The revisionist part applies to every major race.
Hmm, now that you mention it, the Droyne do resemble certain grey-skinned, anal-probe loving, UFO conspirist aliens.

The Droyne have always been canonized as the Greys. Just the question was remains. What did the proto Zhodani human zookeepers/ranchers look like...if their combat armour is any indicator...they also look the greys... Race memory has never been dismissed...although, I think the probe represents a deeper fear...

Quote:
No, they did some exploring. It was the Vegans that crashed in Roswell.
Aha

Again. Possibly. It could have been just another Air Balloon...sometimes an air balloon is just an air balloon. In the meantime, the Vilani Scouts could have landed nearby to observe how the United States would handle an alien invasion by shooting down an air balloon. Wheels within wheels afterall. The same experiment carried out in the USSR and the PRC could have had different results. Thereby doing a Gary 7 is possible...which is why Apollo suceeded and the N1 rocket mysteriously blew up. For forgets how far the USSR was ahead in the Space Race...but they squandered opportunities due to things like infighting in the Politibureau and technical limitations (such as not perfecting docking) limited their lunar program.

The guideline is that canon follows an imaginary line (of thought/reasoning/understanding of human history)...where you decide to draw it is where Traveller fans fight about.

 

[rancke]

Nope, just like every other major race (except the Aslans) the found Ancient technology. (The Aslans acquired Solomani technology.) The revisionist part applies to every major race.

"Is the Truth Really Out There?​

A question that is as hotly discussed among Traveller fans as speculations about angels and pinheads among medieval philosophers is this: To what extent did the Vilani have contact with Terrans prior to the official first contact in 2097? How could the Vilani have missed such an important world? Are all the 20th-century [sic] reports of ET contact really grounded in Vilani surveillance of Terra? If the Vilani knew about the Terrans, how could they have come as such a surprise in the various frontier wars?

Some Traveller fans hold that the Vilani did not know of the Terrans, but that a lesser Vilani subject race (perhaps the Vegans) did. Were the bodies allegedly recovered at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947 Vegan merchants killed in some kind of accident? Was the Tunguska event in Siberia in 1908 a Vegan spacecraft crash? Did the Vegans or some other spacefaring group give the secret of the jump drive to the Terrans in the late 20th century?

Traveller canon has always avoided the question, but the present author [Loren Wiseman] has one fervently held opinion: Terran invention of jump-drive was through their efforts -- it was not given, taken, or acquired in any way other than through independent research."

-- GURPS Traveller, p. 67​

 

[OIT]

"Is the Truth Really Out There?​

A question that is as hotly discussed among Traveller fans as speculations about angels and pinheads among medieval philosophers is this: To what extent did the Vilani have contact with Terrans prior to the official first contact in 2097? How could the Vilani have missed such an important world? Are all the 20th-century [sic] reports of ET contact really grounded in Vilani surveillance of Terra? If the Vilani knew about the Terrans, how could they have come as such a surprise in the various frontier wars?

Some Traveller fans hold that the Vilani did not know of the Terrans, but that a lesser Vilani subject race (perhaps the Vegans) did. Were the bodies allegedly recovered at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947 Vegan merchants killed in some kind of accident? Was the Tunguska event in Siberia in 1908 a Vegan spacecraft crash? Did the Vegans or some other spacefaring group give the secret of the jump drive to the Terrans in the late 20th century?

Traveller canon has always avoided the question, but the present author [Loren Wiseman] has one fervently help opinion: Terran invention of jump-drive was through their efforts -- it was not given, taken, or acquired in any way other than through independent research."

-- GURPS Traveller, p. 67​

Well, obviously I'm a few decades late to the party...

From a forensic standpoint, this has all the markings of a horse that has been beaten to death. Just not one with which I was previously familiar.

 

[kafka47]

It is just an old racehorse who has seen better days...it has been flogged but still has some spirit left in her.

There are many mysteries about the Vilani and the pre-Interstellar War period but essentially there has to be the balance with fun. Right now, I am searching for an appropiate disclaimer for the sourcebook that I would write.

"The works contained within this sourcebook represent a fictional reconstruction of events. They are in no way meant as a reflection or commentary. Although, real historical personnages and certain real events have been mentioned, they are merely for the purposes of fiction."

 

[rancke]

The big problem here is the DGP map of the 1st Imperium at its height that shows the Vilani three parsecs away from Terra five hundred years (or however many centuries is was) earlier. That one really is a belief suspender snapper of giant proportions to me. If the edge had been fifteen parsecs away, I could have accepted that the slow-as-molasses Vilani had only just reached Banard's Star themselves a few years before the Terrans got there.


Hans

 

[OIT]

The big problem here is the DGP map of the 1st Imperium at its height that shows the Vilani three parsecs away from Terra five hundred years (or however many centuries is was) earlier. That one really is a belief suspender snapper of giant proportions to me. If the edge had been fifteen parsecs away, I could have accepted that the slow-as-molasses Vilani had only just reached Banard's Star themselves a few years before the Terrans got there.


Hans

Hans,

I agree. Setting aside porting RL crackpot conspiracy theories into Traveller (which I would vehemently oppose), it is difficult to reconcile the First Imperium's long history in the Solomani Rim with a lack of interaction with Terra.

Perhaps the borders on said map represent the extent of First Imperium claims rather than the extent of their colonies. Maybe First Imperium scouts had visited worlds within three parsecs of Terra, and possibly deployed automatic beacons claiming those worlds for the Glory of the Emperor, but the true leading edge of colonization was several to tens of parsecs further coreward.

Internal politics could explain the First Imperium's sudden, centuries long, halt in exploration. The Ming-era recall of Cheng Ho's treasure fleets provides precedent.

One simple example would be that the Vilani emperor of the time had a policy of sending scouts as far as possible and claiming every planet the Vilani could reach for the empire. His/her successor may have seen that policy as vainglorious or impractical, decided enough scouting had been done, and changed gears to a more Vilani-like policy of slow and steady colonization within the bounds of previously explored space. More detailed/compelling political scenarios could also be devised.

Likewise, cultural or technological reasons could explain why the Vegans did not explore further afield.

 

[Whipsnade]

Perhaps the borders on said map represent the extent of First Imperium claims rather than the extent of their colonies.

OIT,

That's part of the "explanation" IMTU.

The Vilani allegedly hammered every known sophont species into what would become the Ziru Sirka during the 1,400 years (!!!) the Consolidation Wars lasted. They seemed to have been very thorough in that effort too, given the lengths that the Loeskalth went to avoid "assimilation".

The DGP map shows the extent of the Vilani "technologies and colonies" sweeps during the Consolidation Wars. After selecting their next sophont species target, the Vilani would beat the bushes for a certain radius around that specie's territory to ensure that all colonies, outposts, and henhouses belonging to said species were identified, accounted for, and grabbed. The rimward edges of the DGP map thus (mostly) shows the extent of the sweeps made as part of the Vegan assimilation effort.

When Earth stumbled across the Vilani at Barnard thousands of years later and began the Interstellar Wars, the conflict on the Vilani side was fought by a frontier garrison with limited supporting colonies whose primary reason for existence was keeping a boot on the neck of the Vegans and other exile groups.

Of course, IMTU, Earth didn't conquer the Ziru Sirka as much as it provided the Ziru Sirka with it's last ruling dynasty.


Regards,
Bill

 

[robject]

The Ziru Sirka appeared to expand at the "speed of plot" (quote from J Michael Straczynski, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TravelingAtTheSpeedOfPlot).

 

[Whipsnade]

The Ziru Sirka appeared to expand at the "speed of plot" (quote from J Michael Straczynski, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TravelingAtTheSpeedOfPlot).

Robject,

Very much so.

Canonical history accreted more than anything else. Except in the broadest of brushstrokes, canonical history was not planned nor was it controlled in any real manner.

Each new snippet was crafted to meet the needs of the moment. The idea that it would have to be kit bashed into the whole was a distant secondary concern, if it was a concern at all.


Regards,
Bill

 

[robject]

Each new snippet was crafted to meet the needs of the moment. The idea that it would have to be kit bashed into the whole was a distant secondary concern, if it was a concern at all.

After all, GDW produced what, one product every 22 days for 22 years?

Can you imagine what a whirlwind it would be to publish something every month? In the best of environments that would be exciting to say the least. It requires a lot of focus and energy.

 

[kafka47]

History moved at the pace needed to set up the confrontation between two great powers in the Solomani Rim. To give each bonuses eg. knowledge of terrain (+2) for the Vilani but reward Terran innovations (+2), Vilani Political Structure (-2), Terran Popular Opinion (-/+2)...I could see the good folks of GDW devising one big matrix for the whole Interstellar Wars and reworking it into Imperium...

After all, GDW produced what, one product every 22 days for 22 years?

Can you imagine what a whirlwind it would be to publish something every month? In the best of environments that would be exciting to say the least. It requires a lot of focus and energy.

Yes, but there were lots of fan efforts and other things snipping and filling in the blanks, just as there is today. Remember CT was the glorious era of the fanzine (which I think, if you were to get it approved by GDW, you had to send them copies). They also had the whole HIWG. Imagine if we had the bright minds of the HIWG contributing to our wiki...

 

[Whipsnade]

After all, GDW produced what, one product every 22 days for 22 years? Can you imagine what a whirlwind it would be to publish something every month? In the best of environments that would be exciting to say the least. It requires a lot of focus and energy.

Robject,

Please be assured, I'm not faulting GDW one whit. Quite frankly, I'm continually surprised that OTU history hangs together as well as it does. That it does so points to GDW's roots as wargamers and, by default, autodidact historians.

The canonical catastrophes inflicted by minor publishers however, those folks who released a handful of products over time, is another question entirely.

Our needs as gamers have changed greatly since 1977. Settings are king now, systems just a distant second. People want internally consistent settings in which to play or from which to plunder. The GDW staff of the 1980s would laugh themselves sick if told how much the Hobby worries about and over canonical tidbits.

I'm sure they're first response, after wiping the tears of laughter from the their eyes, would be: Why don't you just play the game?


Regards,
Bill

 

[robject]

Please be assured, I'm not faulting GDW one whit. Quite frankly, I'm continually surprised that OTU history hangs together as well as it does. That it does so points to GDW's roots as wargamers and, by default, autodidact historians.

No worries; I know you know the situation, and you stated the facts without heat.

Our needs as gamers have changed greatly since 1977. Settings are king now, systems just a distant second. People want internally consistent settings in which to play or from which to plunder.

Quite. Well the bored gamer is a dangerous gamer.

 

[kafka47]

For me it is never been about being bored, it was just my duty as a referee to keep campaign notes and explainations for all sorts of things. So, it my youth, with my handy typewriter I would type up realms of background information. Now I find that I want to the same but maybe even collabourate to get something actually published.

And, if we little guys could produce something that filled in the cracks left by the footfalls of giants so be it. Although, I sometimes think it is the role Gramsci ascribed to manuve.

 

[stealth]

The Vilani where a water empire.

The Vilani where a water empire, yes. But all empires in the Spiral Arm end when they start to interfere with Grandfathers experiments.

For instance, look at the end of the Rule of Man, and what happened to the the Zhodane when they landed on Viepchakl (sp?). Check your Ref. Guide.

That is how Grandfather works. All this is part of his plan.

Praise him. Yes, praise him.

 

[kafka47]

We should not try to fathom what the Great Old Ones did to limit Grandfather but clearly there are some natural limits that need not be supernatural. However, as much as Traveller likes to blame the Ancients...I think this is one case it works.