Moving past the 3rd Imperium

[far-trader]

Huh, back from the dentist, and no replies.

You lived?! Hmm, maybe I should look into this modern painless dentistry craze...

What, was it the starships as character thing that did it?

Nah, not here anyway. Big fan of the idea. Everything from sentient AI ships through classic Brainships. Heck even my standard ship designs are more like characters than hardware in the best examples

By points:

On Virus's decimation - I don't get the ST-TNG reference.

AI starships - Not sure making them the norm is something desirable. Once you go that way why have flesh and blood characters. Now if a "starship character" game is what your group is after that's one thing, a fine thing even, but mixing the two I'm not too sure.

"Jump" tech - Agreed, to a degree, if tech is sufficiently advanced it should be breaking the 6pc limit at some point. But it would probably be strictly military. Who else would need it. And it would change things substantially.

Something more deadly - Like a Noisy Cricket? There's only so much energy you can safely pack into a certain size and still have it be man portable. You can make it denser, but then it gets too heavy to hold.

Something more protective - As long as it has an Achilles heel like "the slow blade" I'm ok with that.

Hyperlink - or whatever you care to call it again changes the game. It would no longer be Traveller. It would be Talker (or Star Trek, or whatever). If you have nearly instantaneous commo the need to "Travel"ler is greatly reduced.

Update the races - As in evolve? Socially and or biologically? That'll take more time than we're talking about. At least without some extreme intervention.

Droyne - Ever since they were revealed as more than Chirpers and given the whole Alien Module treatment I've never understood why they aren't a more major player on the stage.

Darrians - Smoke and mirrors.

Vargr - Depends how you run/perceive them I guess.

Lots of other AI machines - "Would you like some toast? I can make 23 shades of toast. It doesn't have to be just bread either. I can toast bagels. Or buns. Lots of things. What would you like me to toast for you? Nothing starts the day like some hot fresh toasted... now now, no need to do that. Put away the shotgun. You're just stressed because you haven't had any toa" <BLAM!> (ok, silly example)

Robot/Droid char gen - Again the issue of character balance. If everyone else is playing a T-1000 why do I want to play a meat sack?

Bring back the Sword Worlds - Where'd they go?

 

[far-trader]

Want a fun way to find out jump works again ? Any ship in transit when the wave effect maximized, stayed in jumpspace till it was permiable again.

Oh yeah, I like that one (and the several variations it offers). Very much

 

[Tellon]

AI starships with real personalities will be the norm, not the exception. Maybe this includes generating a "starship character".

Lots of other machines, not just starships, might have real AI personalities.

Robot/Droid char-gen is long overdue (no, I haven't read book 8).

Agreed ...

I dont mind computer AI's -- just virus made them ALL homocidal maniacs -- and that went overboard for me ..

So having AI's -- even a small "mouse droid" -- lol, or a R2 unt or a C3PO type .. as I was looking at the Star Wars encyclopedia of Droids -- and seeing if I can use them in my low-tech Trav stuff.

As far as having a Robot/Droid char -- being a Gamma World player -- that would be a neat addition in having borgs as a part of the crew...providing the ships AI isn't HAL ... mwahahahaha

 

[scrabble]

As I asked before, I'll ask again. Please post your thoughts on how to move the Imperium forward from 1248 with Martin's explinations.

I have posted some of my thoughts already. I am not going to sit here and write a full setting for you on demand. I do actually have more important things to do with my day.

 

[Major B]

I have posted some of my thoughts already. I am not going to sit here and write a full setting for you on demand. I do actually have more important things to do with my day.

That reply is rather peculiar for a discussion board. Good cause for me to find out how the ignore function works though.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Agreed ...

I dont mind computer AI's -- just virus made them ALL homocidal maniacs -- and that went overboard for me ..

So having AI's -- even a small "mouse droid" -- lol, or a R2 unt or a C3PO type .. as I was looking at the Star Wars encyclopedia of Droids -- and seeing if I can use them in my low-tech Trav stuff.

As far as having a Robot/Droid char -- being a Gamma World player -- that would be a neat addition in having borgs as a part of the crew...providing the ships AI isn't HAL ... mwahahahaha

Heh, well, how about a synthetic human, something Bladerunnerish like a Nexus-6, but perhaps with a set of values and rules covering programmed emotions and what not. Again, I've never even so much as glanced at the robot rules, so I'm a little fuzzy on the current rule set.

A player character might be some kind of vehicle, though that player would find itself limited in action, depending on what said player actually chose as his "character".

I think cyborgs are covered in an issue of JTAS or Challenge, but it'd be useful to include that ruleset in a new milieu.

DOH! I got some responses. More later.

 

[Tellon]

programmed emotions -- we'll , technically we have that now, even w/o the TL 16 AI intelligence of Trav comps. Bladerunner -- wow - that brings me back -- seems very much like Shadow-run or Cyberpunk sort of feel --

They did bring up Cyborgs as players? .. damn -- do ya have a link? .. cause that would be cool to see.

As far as robotics rules -- there is a write up on what to expect from a "vampire fleet" cyber-enhanced "borg" -- so it has been done and conceived -- although w/o the adaptive energy shield that the borg use (Star Trek borg). The stuff in Hard Times, TNE, Vampire Fleet and a few enterprising players w thier creativity -- I can make a really damn cool bot -- even at TL 10-12

a borg though as we know is a "body" more machine than man (an old Star Wars nod to what Obi-Wan said of Vader); BUT, even in Gamma-World and "ultra-borg" was still a living brain -- but everything else was machine -- so in essence -- the core of the character is still the brain -- although enhanced by implant computers -- neural jacks, artifical arms, legs, body boosters and all sort sof hardware to make the person a "walking bot"

BUT -- What MT/TNE didn't do was describe JUST HOW all that hardware would be powered -- compared to Gamma World which did -- my favorite was internal fuel-cells and rechargable batteries

So a person -- say a cyborg would almost have to use up internal space -- like when designing a suit suit of Battledress -- and make sure to have say a fuel cell or rechargable batteries so that during some downtime -- the fuel cells/batteries could recharge

 

[captainjack]

I have posted some of my thoughts already. I am not going to sit here and write a full setting for you on demand. I do actually have more important things to do with my day.

Well, it was good that you squeezed in the time to criticise all those posts today. I can see where work may be a bit testy.....

 

[Blue Ghost]

You lived?! Hmm, maybe I should look into this modern painless dentistry craze...





Nah, not here anyway. Big fan of the idea. Everything from sentient AI ships through classic Brainships. Heck even my standard ship designs are more like characters than hardware in the best examples

By points:

On Virus's decimation - I don't get the ST-TNG reference.

AI starships - Not sure making them the norm is something desirable. Once you go that way why have flesh and blood characters. Now if a "starship character" game is what your group is after that's one thing, a fine thing even, but mixing the two I'm not too sure.

"Jump" tech - Agreed, to a degree, if tech is sufficiently advanced it should be breaking the 6pc limit at some point. But it would probably be strictly military. Who else would need it. And it would change things substantially.

Something more deadly - Like a Noisy Cricket? There's only so much energy you can safely pack into a certain size and still have it be man portable. You can make it denser, but then it gets too heavy to hold.

Something more protective - As long as it has an Achilles heel like "the slow blade" I'm ok with that.

Hyperlink - or whatever you care to call it again changes the game. It would no longer be Traveller. It would be Talker (or Star Trek, or whatever). If you have nearly instantaneous commo the need to "Travel"ler is greatly reduced.

Update the races - As in evolve? Socially and or biologically? That'll take more time than we're talking about. At least without some extreme intervention.

Droyne - Ever since they were revealed as more than Chirpers and given the whole Alien Module treatment I've never understood why they aren't a more major player on the stage.

Darrians - Smoke and mirrors.

Vargr - Depends how you run/perceive them I guess.

Lots of other AI machines - "Would you like some toast? I can make 23 shades of toast. It doesn't have to be just bread either. I can toast bagels. Or buns. Lots of things. What would you like me to toast for you? Nothing starts the day like some hot fresh toasted... now now, no need to do that. Put away the shotgun. You're just stressed because you haven't had any toa" <BLAM!> (ok, silly example)

Robot/Droid char gen - Again the issue of character balance. If everyone else is playing a T-1000 why do I want to play a meat sack?

Bring back the Sword Worlds - Where'd they go?

Dentistry; heh, well, the Russian who used to treat my mouth like a public works' project is gone. She's been replaced with a woman who has a slightly gentler touch.

The Whole ST;TNG thing was just a musing. TNG was about exploration, and I thought Traveller was trying to keep with the trend with its TNE setup. I guess it's just my imagination.

A lot of space-oriented sci-fi I've come across has usually had a talking ship of somekind. Some times it was kind of smart, other times it was a human brain implanted in the vessel itself, while other times it was just some rudimentary software with a voice box. I'm not sure how it would manifest itself... this probably isn't a Whipsnade M:1500 thing, but it's an idea.

Jump Tech; it just seems a logical progression that jump is going to improve in some way shape or form. Maybe military vessels can do J7 or J8, but civies are delegated to J6 as a maximum. I had a notion for M:3500, where there're two competeing states that have their own highway network loosely derived from Jump tech, but essentially allows rapid transit from Vland to Terra to wherever within a day or less. A kind of super transit walkway available to parties, and perhaps ships. It would radically change the game, but it would be an evolution for a far-FAR future tech. A futuristic Traveller, so to speak. I'm not really seriously suggesting such a thing for Bill's milieu, but it's an example of how to extract oneself and one's thoughts from adhering to the usual jump-6 malaise.

Weaponry; I guess when I mean "more deadly", something that has more capabilities than just reducing a person to his constituent chemicals, or blowing a cauterized whole through their body. A "teleportation" weapon? I dunno. Perhaps a lighter FGMP, or assault rifle version of a HE weapon. A hand Fusion or Plasma gun? Our group toyed with such a device, but we never used it in a game.

Protection; ah, but battledress doesn't have much of an Achilles heel. Whatever form these things come in, they probably draw on a battery, are tailored for certain functions, and probably have limits as to what kind of protection they give. Maybe, as you suggest, they shrug off an FGMP, but are prone to something like a spear. I think an evolution in protection and protective gear would fit with a new setting.

Updating the races; I'm strictly thinking socially. Maybe the Genoee become a major player in the post 3I scheme of things. Not really sure. I think a definate power shift, and a description of old and new players with new found standing is in order.

And yeah, maybe we can throw in that Red Dwarfish toaster to boot

 

[Blue Ghost]

Darriens; smoke and mirrors?

 

[scrabble]

I would say that the real problem with a putative future for the OTU is making it different.

Personally I am not interested at all in something that merely recreates the same sort of status quo seen in the CT era. However, I also do not think that the future should be non-stop backs-to-the-walls drama like 1248 was. Long Nights and rebirths are also becoming somewhat tired cliches, in my opinion.

Perhaps a new threat has arrived from the core or rimward. Maybe Grandfather is taking steps to subvert the societies of Known Space so that he may return and destroy them all as "a failed experiment" (which the species of Known Space naturally do not take lying down). It could start with his androids infiltrating societies, but being discovered by perceptive individuals, which leads to a shadow war as secret organizations battle against the infiltrators before they gather enough intel for Grandfather's main forces to launch their attack. The resurgent Ancients would make formidable foes, even if they are few in number. It could even almost be like the Stargate setting in some ways, with individual Ancients being the equivalent of the Goa'uld "gods", while the "Tauri" of the races of Known Space foil their plans and attempt bring them down one by one.

Perhaps that would be "too different" for some people, but I do not want to see the same Traveller tropes endlessly re-used in every subsequent edition.

 

[captainjack]

Actually it hardly seems different at all; it's fun stuff, but it seems more like a single focused adventure/campaign than a setting. As a setting, the "Big secret war of the gods in which we are bugs" and "secret wars of the ancient races" are pretty stale tropes, too these days (B5, stargate, Ds9, lots of published SF, you name it); xfiles with ancients doesn't really meet your criteria for somthing new.
Plus, and this is a good thing when looked at as an adventure, I should note that what you suggest could be run in any period of the OTU, and arguably has happened (putting together all the ancients adventures and references suggest that more is going on than Grandfather copped to...).

Still, its got real potential as a largish campaign...I'd be delighted to see you develop it, assuming you don't have anything better to do

 

[Lycanorukke]

BUT -- What MT/TNE didn't do was describe JUST HOW all that hardware would be powered -- compared to Gamma World which did -- my favorite was internal fuel-cells and rechargable batteries

They covered bionics/prothestics in Trav Digest #13. Cyber if 'active' (arms, hearts, laser eyes, etc) ran on 30 day superbatteries. They took 3 hours to charge. If passive (ears, ordinary eyes, etc) it ran on body heat.

They also covered other bits like the surgery, cost of parts, effects on 'hit points' and such. On the whole though - it was easier to go for cloning/regrowth. Prothetics were cheap and nasty, Bionics cost a fortune, while regrowth was in the middle.

 

[captainjack]

Darriens; smoke and mirrors?

hey....is that a 70's joke ?

 

[scrabble]

Actually it hardly seems different at all; it's fun stuff, but it seems more like a single focused adventure/campaign than a setting. As a setting, the "Big secret war of the gods in which we are bugs" and "secret wars of the ancient races" are pretty stale tropes, too these days (B5, stargate, Ds9, lots of published SF, you name it); xfiles with ancients doesn't really meet your criteria for somthing new.

Perhaps not when one looks at science fiction in general terms (in any case, nothing is really "new" in SF, and one would have to be a particularly gifted writer to come up with something truly original). But I do not believe it has really been covered in the OTU before.

I also should say that I do not particularly like wide open "sandbox" settings, such as that presented in CT. I generally prefer ones that have more focus, if not a metaplot. A setting with an ongoing, significant conflict or other type of exciting event in progress in the background and that may affect the PCs (or that the PCs could affect) is more interesting to me than one in which nothing is really happening.

I do find it interesting that people continue to crave something new from the OTU though. We have had seven or eight different editions of Traveller now, covering at least six different eras of the OTU, and yet we still want different eras to play in? I suppose that means that the current selection of eras is not enough for us. Perhaps we should be looking at other RPGs and other settings for satisfaction instead.

 

[robject]

Back to the topic at hand; I have no problem with a post TNE future for Traveller, whatever it is. I do think that some actual rules may have to change. [...]

T5 expands technology and covers some of the things you've mentioned, and has rules for things such as clones, chimeras, synthetics, robots, and semi-organic computers.

In a sense, a robot is any vehicle with a brain, including starships.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Want a fun way to find out jump works again ? Any ship in transit when the wave effect maximized, stayed in jumpspace till it was permiable again.

One day, at the 100d limit and thereabouts, ships pop out of jumpspace.

I leave it for discussion as to weather or not the crews experience the normal week, or the actual time - and are long dead. Ships exiting jumpspace with their entry vector and a dead hand at the helm makes for a pretty interesting week for nearby space....but so does having a few jump trained crews (and new ships) suddenly appear at some systems.

O ... nice.

Not too good for the crew through, especually if they have spent 100 odd years in jump. Low bearths might work, especially if your not jumping your full jump number and you have a bunch of fuel knocking about in the tanks.

Good way to take your PCs into M:1500 though!

Regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I have posted some of my thoughts already. I am not going to sit here and write a full setting for you on demand. I do actually have more important things to do with my day.

And that is of course fine.

Please don't take my posts as a demand. They were a suggestion that you might like to post your thoughts on the future you wish to discuss.

As you don't wish to discuss the Traveller future you would like to see, as you say above, please don't derail the thread with comments on a future we might like to see and are discussing. (That future may be different to what you would like to see). As you say you have more important things to do with your day.

I look forward to a discussion with you on some other thread about some other topic that you do wish to discuss and bid you a good day.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I would say that the real problem with a putative future for the OTU is making it different.

Personally I am not interested at all in something that merely recreates the same sort of status quo seen in the CT era. However, I also do not think that the future should be non-stop backs-to-the-walls drama like 1248 was. Long Nights and rebirths are also becoming somewhat tired cliches, in my opinion.

Perhaps a new threat has arrived from the core or rimward. Maybe Grandfather is taking steps to subvert the societies of Known Space so that he may return and destroy them all as "a failed experiment" (which the species of Known Space naturally do not take lying down). It could start with his androids infiltrating societies, but being discovered by perceptive individuals, which leads to a shadow war as secret organizations battle against the infiltrators before they gather enough intel for Grandfather's main forces to launch their attack. The resurgent Ancients would make formidable foes, even if they are few in number. It could even almost be like the Stargate setting in some ways, with individual Ancients being the equivalent of the Goa'uld "gods", while the "Tauri" of the races of Known Space foil their plans and attempt bring them down one by one.

Perhaps that would be "too different" for some people, but I do not want to see the same Traveller tropes endlessly re-used in every subsequent edition.

I agree that there has to be some conflict in the setting, and that there has to be some underlying plots that run through as well.

I'm not sure that baddies from the core, or anicents popping out is the answer, but I certainly take your point. Food for thought.

In the Marches, there are always the Alsan landgrabbers and the Vargr to deal with from a conflict point of view, however there may be some scope to soften the landrush of the Aslan if they have been combined to a system for a few hundred years. But that is more of a standard conflict type of an issue.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I also should say that I do not particularly like wide open "sandbox" settings, such as that presented in CT. I generally prefer ones that have more focus, if not a metaplot. A setting with an ongoing, significant conflict or other type of exciting event in progress in the background and that may affect the PCs (or that the PCs could affect) is more interesting to me than one in which nothing is really happening.

I agree.

I do find it interesting that people continue to crave something new from the OTU though. We have had seven or eight different editions of Traveller now, covering at least six different eras of the OTU, and yet we still want different eras to play in? I suppose that means that the current selection of eras is not enough for us. Perhaps we should be looking at other RPGs and other settings for satisfaction instead.

Heresy! Other RPGs? Heresy I say!!

I do understand what you are saying though. It's the future thing for me it's about the OTU having one. And why do something that has been done before? Why not explore a different aspect to allow an enhabced role playing experaince?

Is exploring the different aspects of the different races each confined to a single star system enough? It's worth exploring IMHO. There could then be a few indivudual settings "During the Wave", how they cope and what they come up with.

One Aslan, One Vargr, One Imperial Human, One Vilani, One Zhodani, One or two mixed race (human/vargr) or (human/aslan), One Virus(AI) etc ...

They are going to change, because they will have to. And then once we explore the "Durring the Wave" Setting, we explode them into M:1500?

Regards,

Ewan