Post Apocalyptic settings

[Blue Ghost]

I find that once a character dies, the game tends to die.

The last official Traveller gaming session I had with our group that started back in middle school and lasted up through the first or second year of college, had the boys slugging it out on the Tarmac with a band of mercenaries trying to jack their ship.

Said mercs somehow got their hands on a G-Carrier with a Y-gun, and toasted a good chunk of the players hunkering behind baggage crates (not a good place to be when fighting an AFV with a plasma canon). My character lived, along with a smattering of others. I think we ... geeze, can't remember now ... charged the ramp ... and took out the G-Carrier when the mercs were piling out? Been so long I can't remember.

But you get the point. That group ended, but was replaced with other players. My character from that group went off into the Extents with a boat load of anagathics, and went adventuring with canines for the rest of eternity. The other made a trek back to Sol Earth, all the way from the Spinward Marches. I think they had delusions of grandeur to free Terra from the Imperium or something.

It happens when key characters die. In our case it was like four or five major players getting wiped out with one sweep. A massive blow to the group.

Funny, we never did a PA setting with that set of characters.

 

[snapshotbygdw]

Hmm, wouldn't such a terrible setting encourage the player characters to go on in order to prevent it happening again?

Exactly what I wanted as GM I tried to make the whole sequence as horrific as possible so that, I hoped, players would really want to save the other world from something they experienced as truly unpleasant !

I cut the characters no slack, I constantly got them to describe ingreat detail actions and precautions they were taking often interrupting their planning with dice rolls, I had them roll to maintain equipment and general health often, distributing -ve DM's to both stats and skills to represent niggling effects of blisters, ash clouds, lack of hygiene etc, I had corrosive attacks on environmental gear and interrupted sleep periods, allowed players no leaps of intuition that their characters couldn't roll to make etc.

I even controlled the gaming environment: I ran one session,when they were crossing a chain of barren islands, and forbid snacks and drinks for the whole period, we started one session at two in the morning in winter (minus temp outside and players in t-shirts with heating off) and ran through the night, I banned reference to rules during sessions, split the group up into different rooms, played crap background music during game all designed to unsettle. Perhaps with hindsight I went to far...

 

[Icosahedron]

Perhaps with hindsight I went to far...

Ah. When I read your first post about this, I thought 'Wow, a game so intense it makes the characters kill themselves from the harrowing descriptions - we have a master storyteller in our midst.' Now I see you p***ed the players off so much they junked their characters just to get out of the game... Ah well.

 

[snapshotbygdw]

Ah. When I read your first post about this, I thought 'Wow, a game so intense it makes the characters kill themselves from the harrowing descriptions - we have a master storyteller in our midst.' Now I see you p***ed the players off so much they junked their characters just to get out of the game... Ah well.

Sadley no my narrative skills run too much in the humor direction, I've always found it hard to be frightening or truely menacing in my desciptive style, I do remember originally thinking I would use visual aids formed from real images of war zones but felt this was perhaps inappropriate for a "game" so settled on movie stills.

 

[fusor]

I even controlled the gaming environment: I ran one session,when they were crossing a chain of barren islands, and forbid snacks and drinks for the whole period, we started one session at two in the morning in winter (minus temp outside and players in t-shirts with heating off) and ran through the night, I banned reference to rules during sessions, split the group up into different rooms, played crap background music during game all designed to unsettle. Perhaps with hindsight I went to far...

Being made physically uncomfortable when playing a roleplaying game is not my idea of fun at all (particularly when players have perfectly good imaginations to picture how unpleasant the environment is for their characters).

I'm all for props and atmosphere, but I think this is waaaaay over the line myself.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Perhaps with hindsight I went to far...

<semi-awed>

I have never even remotely had so much control over any group of players. Had I ever attempted that, people would have simply left.

Oh, and yes, you went too far.

 

[whartung]

For PA game, "survival" is not a long term meme, IMHO. Getting by day to day is not much fun without a hopeful goal. Nobody wants to live hand to mouth.

in T2K for example, that hope could be trying to get back home, or at least to someplace with more "civilization" or, at least, security (safety and food security mostly). But at the same time, the characters, while in an awful environment, were basically mostly at the top of the food chain. They were susceptible to attackers and scroungers and gangs, but at least the character typically had vehicles and weapons to make getting by and traveling easier.

On the other extreme, there's "The Road".

I'll block this for those who don't want to read it.

Spoiler:

The Road was very dark. Not so much because it was just raw survival, but because it focused a different relationship between people. Most PA stories focus on the conflict between parties based around resources and the protection there of. The Road is basically the same thing, save that the resource is the person itself, treated as a food source for others.

Even in severe PA scenarios, folks may be willing to help others out as long as they don't use their supplies, pay their way, whatever. But when strangers look upon you solely as food, your relationship with others change dramatically. It's like cattle negotiating terms with a hungry farmer -- it doesn't happen, and there is no middle ground.

The cannibals don't need your help, expertise, or labor. They need your calories and protein. It's a very, very dark world. Simple put, it's very "inhumane".

So, especially for a game, at least for me, I'd want some light at the end of the tunnel. As a referee you can be nasty and hit them with a "oh, Disneyland burned down" at the end of the campaign when you curse your players to slow, lingering death, but that's a different issue.

This is in contrast to a darker campaign, where there is no hope at all. There may well be a light at the end of the tunnel the players don't know about. They may cross the pass and come upon Shangri-La. As a larger story, as someone experiencing it indirectly (i.e. a reader), that may be ok. But as a participant? Playing this? No hope, the cow died, oh look a drought, etc. etc. 2 steps forward, 3 steps back, All. The. Time. No, it's miserable.

 

[Jackofjacks]

Being made physically uncomfortable when playing a roleplaying game is not my idea of fun at all (particularly when players have perfectly good imaginations to picture how unpleasant the environment is for their characters).

I'm all for props and atmosphere, but I think this is waaaaay over the line myself.

As someone who played through these sessions with snapshot let me just claify something I don't think he made clear, he was experimenting with ways of getting players to value their characters more. We had a whole broken world to cross so rather than letting us just say "i'm gonna trek through these artic wastes for 3 months what do i need to roll to survive each week?" or "we know our supplies won't last the journey but we are still taking this route, how much snt and end do we lose each week as starvation sets in?" he actually physically challegned us in ways that reflected what we were willing to put our characters through, and I have to say some of it was quite inventive, I don't think our games ever lack imagination or quality descriptive narrative, but like many players I run a character that I am willing to put into danger and through hardship because if they perish all I suffer is a bit of winding up and a half hour spent rolling up a new one. I have to say that whilst I would not want to repeat it all that often it was a great gaming experience and for the record the player who had his character kill himself did so because after weeks of playing when we really were tired, cold or hungry etc, when our characters were virtual animals clawing for survival and the players collasped to point of agreeing to letting their characters resort to canablism our evil bastard of a GM produced a frozen icecream cake with one of those photo transfer icing pictures of a happy mom, pop and two kid family all smiling for the camera on it and said our players could eat a dead NPC if we ate the cake!

 

[fusor]

To be honest I don't think that any of what Jackofjacks said has changed my opinion of the situation at all!

 

[rancke]

I find that I tend to become attached to my characters through nothing more strenuous than the experience of playing them long enough to get to know them.


Hans

 

[aramis]

To be honest I don't think that any of what Jackofjacks said has changed my opinion of the situation at all!

I'd have walked. Not my way to play.

 

[fusor]

I'd have walked. Not my way to play.

If I'd known the GM was going to do something like that I wouldn't have even shown up in the first place!

 

[Ishmael]

Ages ago, I ran a one-shot game as an experiment. Each player got a punch in the arm for every point of damage their character took. After a couple of combat rounds and player's arms got sore and hurting, their approach to combat and risk taking changed drastically.

Even after that game and the experiment were over, the players still were more careful about taking damage, especially in combat.

Another thing I've done....
Players who are unconcious have to leave the room until their character re-awakens again. The returning player can only know what took place while they were out by what the other players or npc's told them ( which may or may not be the truth ).

An aversion to being unconcious developed quickly.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Oh wow, those are really interesting takes on a game, though not quite Post-Apoc setting related, they're still very fascinating to read about.

I occasionally dimmed the lights. The best setting was with a single light source above a kitchen table with the gang gathered around. Complete silence except for the GM/Ref dishing out the game ... maybe some music later on.

 

[far-trader]

Interesting little side topic that has developed here...

Ages ago, I ran a one-shot game as an experiment. Each player got a punch in the arm for every point of damage their character took. After a couple of combat rounds and player's arms got sore and hurting, their approach to combat and risk taking changed drastically.

Even after that game and the experiment were over, the players still were more careful about taking damage, especially in combat.

Another thing I've done....
Players who are unconcious have to leave the room until their character re-awakens again. The returning player can only know what took place while they were out by what the other players or npc's told them ( which may or may not be the truth ).

An aversion to being unconcious developed quickly.

As I said, interesting. We did the "leave the room" bit now and then. It sometimes instilled a certain level of paranoia and mistrust (Player "Why?" Ref "Because your PC won't know what happened." Player "What's going to happen?" Ref <Evil Grin>).

Usually we did it with notes instead (quicker, easier). If a player or players weren't privy to the action (unconscious, distracted, whatever) they didn't get to read the note. And the paranoia and interest in the game really peaked if notes began flowing. I even sent the odd "nothing, just messing" note to a select player now and then, sometimes with a request to roll dice, reply, or "say the following..." :devil:

There have been times I've thought about some kind of aversion therapy to stem reckless disregard and what I call weak role playing. Where a player, regardless of the character's possibly motives and desires, insists they can do something. Like keep fighting in good spirit while facing terror and in pain. I've been as guilty of that as others. I'm not sure our games would have lasted with the arm-punch idea though.

Generally I've cared about my characters from the start. Imbuing them with a history and background, even when the game didn't include that in the rules. Torturing me personally wouldn't have added to my interest, probably the opposite. And I'd likely have dropped from the game as soon as it started.

The only game I can recall not caring a whit about my character (after the fact) came soon after we finished my first game with a new ref. All the characters had died in that first game. Well, all save one. And the ref was impressed that he had not been able to kill that character, but figured he wouldn't last the next game. The other players who knew this ref's rep (I didn't) were also impressed. I was not. I wasn't the least bit interested a "killer campaign" where the point for the ref was to kill all the characters before the end of the gaming night. What's the point? I don't need to role play for that kind of game, I could just send my character sheet and have the ref roll dice until "it" died. Yippee...

One Kobayashi Maru game, ok. Just to let us know that not everyone lives, sometimes everyone dies, and how you die is as important as how you live. But a whole campaign predicated on not that but on "No survivors!". Yawn... what a waste of time.

 

[Blue Ghost]

*much snipping*
One Kobayashi Maru game, ok. Just to let us know that not everyone lives, sometimes everyone dies, and how you die is as important as how you live. But a whole campaign predicated on not that but on "No survivors!". Yawn... what a waste of time.

I have to admit, as a GM I became pretty bloodthirsty one afternoon session. After having swarms of SFB specialty rules thrown in my face in the previous months, having been beaten hard in a Car Wars arena match, and having been last out of a heat trap in a D&D session in which my character took lots of damage because of his plate mail armor, I was feeling pretty vindictive. I ran Death Station with three friends, and killed every last one of them :devil:

Although I have to admit it really wasn't so much my mood at the time so much as the three players in question had only done snapshot kind of stuff with Traveller, and no real adventuring in a traditional RPG setting. Still, it felt kind of good "to win" as it were after the numerous inordinate losses I had suffered.

But we're getting off topic here.

Back to Post Apocalyptic settings.

SEED;
Imagine, your character's scout ship suffers some horrific misjump and malfunction upon exiting jump. You are all forced to abandon ship. Maybe something like Marooned and Marooned Alone where all but one of you jump ship via the ship's boat or a reentry survival package. You land on some strange world where burnt out buildings, crumbleing roads and rusted hulks of vehicles line the highways.

What intelligent life there is runs amok on the highways, killing for fuel and what little food there is ... pockets of radiation abound. You must find your ship, effect repairs, and get out of here!

Go for it!

 

[Icosahedron]

For PA game, "survival" is not a long term meme, IMHO. Getting by day to day is not much fun without a hopeful goal. Nobody wants to live hand to mouth.

in T2K for example, that hope could be trying to get back home, or at least to someplace with more "civilization" or, at least, security (safety and food security mostly). But at the same time, the characters, while in an awful environment, were basically mostly at the top of the food chain. They were susceptible to attackers and scroungers and gangs, but at least the character typically had vehicles and weapons to make getting by and traveling easier.

I agree. Survival is there to set the scene, to get the players and characters in the mood, let them know they're not in Kansas any more and let a few NPCs die to show how the brave new world works. After a while, though, the PCs need to be able to use their 'cinematic edge' to raise themselves above mere survival and begin 'the quest', whatever that may be. It could be finding a pocket of civilization, it could be creating their own Shangri-La oasis in the devastation, it could be carving out an empire for themselves and creating a new world order, but they need something more than 'I exchange three beans for a handful of flour' to keep the game going.

 

[far-trader]

...But we're getting off topic here.

Back to Post Apocalyptic settings...

Oh fine...



(liked and sympathized with your day of vengence divergence though )

About the closest I've come to the Post Apocalyptic theme (discounting the whole TNE era meme) was an idea I toyed with for a Prison Planet setting.

The setup being the PC's get sentenced (justly or framed) for Imperial Crimes and sent to a Prison Planet. Basically they get dropped in from orbit via emergency reentry kits. There are no landings allowed. Of course it should go without saying that there are no liftoffs either should anything survive getting through the defense fleet intact on approach. The only sentence is life without parole. It's said it could be worse since it's usually a short sentence :devil:

Once on the surface it's survival of the toughest/cleverest and anything goes. Ingenuity being what it is there is a modicum of tech but it's mostly focused on survival. Clever PCs might be able to do more with it if they can organize their own band and take what they need. Maybe even enough to figure out an escape attempt*. Or they could just make the best of life in hell by being sure they run the place.

Never ran it and I'm not sure I'd be able to pull off the darkness I imagined for the setting... and if I did I'd be worried it would turn off the players.

* All but guarnteed to fail. Only one situation was to present itself for a possible escape... I think I'll keep it a secret though, just in case

 

[BlackBat242]

Read Steve Perry & Michael Reaves's The Omega Cage.

Not the musician, the author of the Matador series. http://home.comcast.net/~perry1966/index.html

 

[savage]

New Beginnings...

Having played in T2k, ran T2k and T20 TNE Style, played Cathulu, evil AD&D campaigns, and others... I must completely agree that a negative setting is exciting at first but without positive/hope the players end up leaving. T2k was really great for tearing up a player group.

My approach after T2k was taking the positive approach. Your finding a way home, building a new world, saving lives. Complete chaos is a bit more tolerable.