Capital of Domain of Sol in 445

[rancke]

If the Domain of Sol wasn't originally the Domain of Sol, perhaps it was renamed to the Domain of Sol when Terra and the rest joined the Imperium? I don't know if they'd have enough power or influence to get that to happen, though.

IF the Domain of Sol was known as, say, the Domain of Diaspora originally, I'd say the obvious time for the change would be 583 when Jacqueline I appointed the first Archduke of Sol. And a very reasonable time it would be too.

Please note that I'm not saying that there's a scrap of evidence that it was called the Domain of Diaspora originally. I'm just saying that 'Domain of Sol' sounds unlikely for the political situation in 76 and that there's no conclusive evidence that it WAS named the Domain of Sol back then. There's evidence that implies it, sure, but no proof.

I would also say that it's obvious (to me, anyway) that the original Order of Terra did not function as a domain order back in 0 or 76. From the evidence there was, on the other hand, a (defunct) domain order for the Domain of Sol named the Order of Terra in 1002.

If and how the one got changed into the other is unclear.


Hans

 

[MCEvans]

The protagonists of the TD Four Knights adventure tour were awarded knighthoods by the Duke of Deneb (presumably on behalf of the Emperor) and sent to Capital to be confirmed/reawarded (?) by the Emperor himself.


Hans

The 4 in question were inducted into the Order of the Emperor's Guard not the Order of Deneb (TD#9 pg 9).

To my understanding knights of the OEG have a higher [FONT=arial,helvetica]precedence [/FONT]than even an knight from A&POS.

The Order of Terra could have been and honor order to those who could trace there ancestry back to Terra through the Long Night and the 2nd Imperium.

 

[Gray Pennell]

Integrated Traveller Timeline has this to say.

76. Emperor Artemsus revives the title of archduke and elevates five of his most influential and loyal dukes to this position. The new archdukes take the role of viceroys in the domains. No Archduke is appointed to the Domain of Sol. Nobles, SJG, 2004, p. 98.

So there was a Domain of Sol on the books but no control. I would call this strategic planning.

292-588 The Old Earth Union, centered on Terra (Solomani Rim 1827), is absorbed into the Imperium; a small historical mission verifies haut-Devroe's Solomani Hypothesis. Supplement 08 - Library Data (A-M), GDW, 1981, p. 45.


They say centered on Terra which implies Terra would be the capital of the Domain. But thats a big assumption on my part. However, it also doesnt point to another capital. This leaves people free to do what they want without effecting OTU.

 

[rancke]

Integrated Traveller Timeline has this to say.

76. Emperor Artemsus revives the title of archduke and elevates five of his most influential and loyal dukes to this position. The new archdukes take the role of viceroys in the domains. No Archduke is appointed to the Domain of Sol. Nobles, SJG, 2004, p. 98.

Sylea, Vland, Ilelish, Sol, Gateway, Antares, with the Emperor taking on Sylea himself. Either he only elevated four dukes or Sol gets an archduke just as all the others do. Those two sentences can't both be correct.

As for the Domain of Sol, I'm sure the original author didn't think about the fact that Sol Sector wouldn't be part of the Imperium in 76; I have no doubt that he intended it to be The Domain Named Sol From the Very Start. What I'm saying is that going by the canon material alone, there's no reason why the in-game library data couldn't be interpreted to mean The Domain Eventually Named Sol.

292-588 The Old Earth Union, centered on Terra (Solomani Rim 1827), is absorbed into the Imperium; a small historical mission verifies haut-Devroe's Solomani Hypothesis. Supplement 08 - Library Data (A-M), GDW, 1981, p. 45.


They say centered on Terra which implies Terra would be the capital of the Domain. But thats a big assumption on my part. However, it also doesnt point to another capital. This leaves people free to do what they want without effecting OTU.

People can always do whatever they want without affecting the OTU (unless they're writing official setting material).

When Jaqueline I appointed an Archduke of Sol in 583, the Old Earth Union was not yet part of the Imperium, although it was a client state. There probably were a sector duke of Sol Sector already (I would guess that around 10 subsectors were already part of the Imperium, possibly more), so theoretically he could have been the one chosen, but he would not have had his capital on Terra. I think the available data suggests that it would have been the sector duke of Diaspora, but it certainly could be someone else.


Hans

 

[rancke]

The 4 in question were inducted into the Order of the Emperor's Guard not the Order of Deneb (TD#9 pg 9).

Which is why I said "on behalf of the Emperor".

To my understanding knights of the OEG have a higher [FONT=arial,helvetica]precedence [/FONT]than even an knight from A&POS.

I don't know what you mean by 'A&POS', but the Honorable Order of the Emperor's Guard is the second highest ranking order of knighthood in the Imperium, second only to the Order of the Starship and Crown. The Order of the Arrow is third, followed by the orders of the domains.

The Order of Terra could have been an honor order to those who could trace there ancestry back to Terra through the Long Night and the 2nd Imperium.

That's an excellent notion!


Hans

 

[Gray Pennell]

Your right the numbers dont add up. Lets assume its an adding mistake simply because its pretty clear there wasn't an Archduke of the Sol Domain. Theoretically when it moved from a clinet state to the Imperuim the OEU could have negotiated Terra to be the capital. This would make for an interesting relationship between Sylea, Terra and the world that lost the title.

 

[MCEvans]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]A&POS = [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Ancient & Preeminent Order of Sylea

Sorry, just didn't want to type it all out.
[/FONT]

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Sylea, Vland, Ilelish, Sol, Gateway, Antares, with the Emperor taking on Sylea himself. Either he only elevated four dukes or Sol gets an archduke just as all the others do. Those two sentences can't both be correct.

The Emperor might have elevated one of his dukes in 76, but later Emperors may have taken the Archduke of Sylea back, or one of the Flag Emperoers may have taken it, or Arbellatra Alkhalikoi took it when she was proclamed emperess?

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[rancke]

How does this sound:

Order of Terra


The Order of Terra was originally the highest-ranking of three orders of knighthood, the orders of Terra, Vland, and Sylea, used by the Sylean Federation to award citizens for extraordinary achievements and service. The Order of Terra was reserved for citizens who could trace their ancestry back to the Terran Confederation. The order was second only to the Order of the Cross of Arlea, which was reserved for planetary royalty and Federation nobles of equivalent rank.

When Cleon I created the Order of the Imperial Sunburst in Year 0, it came to outrank all other orders since he appointed its members in his capacity as emperor whereas he appointed members to the other orders in his capacity as Grand Duke of Sylea. Most new knights that would formerly had been inducted into the Order of Terra was instead inducted into the Order of the Imperial Sunburst or, after Year 17, its replacment, the Order of the Starship and Crown.

In 76 the orders of Vland and Sylea were repurposed as domain orders of the Domain of Vland and the Domain of Sylea, but the Order of Terra remained an order with little or no activity.

In 583, Jacquline I, as part of her strategy of finally integrating the rimward sectors of the Domain of Diaspora into the Imperium, renamed it the Domain of Sol and appointed an Archduke of Sol to impress the rimward client states, especially the Old Earth Union, with her commitment to respecting their interests. The defunct Order of Terra was revived to serve as the domain order of knighthood, allowing it to be ranked above the other domain orders, another sop to rimward pride.

In 716, the Archduchy of Sol lapsed after the death of the incumbent left no available heir who was not a member of the Solomani Party. With no archduke to appoint new members, the Order of Terra became moribund once more. Various attempts to keep it active were made from time to time with emperors making appointments to the order by special provision, but the last such appointment was in 882.

In 1002 Gavin revived the Order of Terra as a preliminary to appointing a new Archduke of Sol the next year. However, although it was considered heir to all of the Order of Terra's possessions and traditions, the order was renamed the Order of Sol and its seniority downgraded at the same time.​

Hans

 

[77topaz]

How does this sound:

Order of Terra


The Order of Terra was originally the highest-ranking of three orders of knighthood, the orders of Terra, Vland, and Sylea, used by the Sylean Federation to award citizens for extraordinary achievements and service. The Order of Terra was reserved for citizens who could trace their ancestry back to the Terran Confederation. The order was second only to the Order of the Cross of Arlea, which was reserved for planetary royalty and Federation nobles of equivalent rank.

When Cleon I created the Order of the Imperial Sunburst in Year 0, it came to outrank all other orders since he appointed its members in his capacity as emperor whereas he appointed members to the other orders in his capacity as Grand Duke of Sylea. Most new knights that would formerly had been inducted into the Order of Terra was instead inducted into the Order of the Imperial Sunburst or, after Year 17, its replacment, the Order of the Starship and Crown.

In 76 the orders of Vland and Sylea were repurposed as domain orders of the Domain of Vland and the Domain of Sylea, but the Order of Terra remained an order with little or no activity.

In 583, Jacquline I, as part of her strategy of finally integrating the rimward sectors of the Domain of Diaspora into the Imperium, renamed it the Domain of Sol and appointed an Archduke of Sol to impress the rimward client states, especially the Old Earth Union, with her commitment to respecting their interests. The defunct Order of Terra was revived to serve as the domain order of knighthood, allowing it to be ranked above the other domain orders, another sop to rimward pride.

In 716, the Archduchy of Sol lapsed after the death of the incumbent left no available heir who was not a member of the Solomani Party. With no archduke to appoint new members, the Order of Terra became moribund once more. Various attempts to keep it active were made from time to time with emperors making appointments to the order by special provision, but the last such appointment was in 882.

In 1002 Gavin revived the Order of Terra as a preliminary to appointing a new Archduke of Sol the next year. However, although it was considered heir to all of the Order of Terra's possessions and traditions, the order was renamed the Order of Sol and its seniority downgraded at the same time.​

Hans

Good, apart from at least one typo/spelling mistake.

 

[Dragoner]

the Order of the Starship and Crown.


Crown?

 

[rancke]

the Order of the Starship and Crown.


Crown?

Crown (headgear).


Hans

 

[77topaz]

the Order of the Starship and Crown.


Crown?

That would probably mean the Iridium Throne.

 

[rancke]

That would probably mean the Iridium Throne.

It represents the Imperial crown. "The badge of the order is a stylized starship laid over a circlet representing the imperial [sic] crown, both in gold, on a field of black." [GT:Nobles, p. 21]


Hans

 

[Hyphen]

Starship & Crown is a canonical order of knighthood.

Hans, retcon looks good. I especially like the on-again, off-again nature of the award; it has the aura of realism rather than feeling shoe-horned in.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

In 583, Jacquline I, as part of her strategy of finally integrating the rimward sectors of the Domain of Diaspora into the Imperium, renamed it the Domain of Sol and appointed an Archduke of Sol to impress the rimward client states, especially the Old Earth Union, with her commitment to respecting their interests. The defunct Order of Terra was revived to serve as the domain order of knighthood, allowing it to be ranked above the other domain orders, another sop to rimward pride.

Hi Hans,

There is no evidence that it was called anything but the Domain of Sol so I think the above paragraph should read:

"In 583, Jacquline I, as part of her strategy of finally integrating the rimward sectors into the Imperium, appointed an Archduke of Sol to impress the rimward client states, especially the Old Earth Union, with her commitment to respecting their interests. The defunct Order of Terra was revived to serve as the domain order of knighthood, allowing it to be ranked above the other domain orders, another consession to rimward pride."

And I don't like "sop" used in the context of "pacify, quiet, or bribe" because it's just a rubish word (although that's just me of course), so I used consession instead.

This doesn't proculde it from having been called the Domain of Disporia (if you can produce anything that suggests this), but it doesn't specify that it was.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[rancke]

There is no evidence that it was called anything but the Domain of Sol...

I think I covered that quite adequately back in post #21.

And I don't like "sop" used in the context of "pacify, quiet, or bribe" because it's just a rubbish word (although that's just me of course), so I used consession instead.

Concession sounds good. More dignified, like. Concession it is then.

This doesn't preclude it from having been called the Domain of Disporia (if you can produce anything that suggests this), but it doesn't specify that it was.

The only thing I can produce that suggests that the Domain of Sol was not name thus in 76 is the argument that it's an unlikely thing to call a domain that consisted of two sectors (neither of which were Sol sector) that partly belonged to the Imperium and two sectors (one of which was Sol sector) that did not belong to the Imperium.


Hans

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I think I covered that quite adequately back in post #21.

No in Post #21 you said there is no conclusive evidence for it to have been called the Domain of Sol. Which is correct, however there is no evidence that it wasn't either.

Having said that there is absolutly _no_ evidence what so ever that it was called the Domain of Disporia in any shape or form. My suggested wording doesn't preclude this, but it doen't introduce it either.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[rancke]

No in Post #21 you said there is no conclusive evidence for it to have been called the Domain of Sol. Which is correct, however there is no evidence that it wasn't either.

I suppose that, technically, the sentence "Please note that I'm not saying that there's a scrap of evidence that it was called the Domain of Diaspora originally." does not actually say that there is no such evidence, just that I'm not claiming that there were. However, I think it's quite strongly implied that as far as I know there is none, and it certainly was what I was trying to convey.

Having said that there is absolutly _no_ evidence what so ever that it was called the Domain of Disporia in any shape or form. My suggested wording doesn't preclude this, but it doen't introduce it either.

But I want to introduce it.


Hans

 

[Dragoner]

That would probably mean the Iridium Throne.

Yes, in a Traveller way, maybe Iridium Throne and Revolver etc.; though it all seems a bit too star wars-ish as it is.