So, Did the Spinward Traveller Debut Happen at Gencon?

[rich4421972]

or was kickstarter not really equipped to 'do' anything?

I think they are not well equipped to closely monitor each campaign
that is on their site.

I don't think he is getting special treatment. Especially on the "Dice-O-Matic" thing. I feel that he did get "caught" on that one.


There are literally thousands of kickstarters going at any one time (over 6 thousand right now).
Mr. Whitman has managed to run several kickstarter campaigns under different names and sock puppet companies. "d20 Entertainment" seems to be his latest invented company.

On the other hand, it seems like local court systems are starting to crack down on the worst ones. I would argue that "Spinward Traveller" has now gotten the interest of the legal profession/state courts and such.

I feel so much sympathy for the kind souls who supported this project and have had a bad experience as a result. Hopefully no one has been deeply hurt

 

[Patron Zero]

Becoming financially involved in any KickStarter project is simply a caveat emptor situation.

Like any 'investment', one should do a bit of research before blindly handing over funding.

 

[MJD]

Absolutely. Given my previous experiences with Ken I would not go near any project he was involved in. Unfortunately the association with FFE seems to have been enough to convince many potential backers that this was a legitimate project. Which maybe it was, at the outset.

I've had a look at the controversy surrounding this affair, and things are not looking good for the project. That's a shame; I wonder what the implications for any future attempt at a Traveller TV series might be.

It's been a long time since my own last attempt in that area. We got as far as the development board at a studio, and these days I have a lot more experience in the field... but at present I'm pretty sure it's not worth making the attempt.

 

[MJD]

I'm also concerned at the idea that one of the first Kickstarters to attract major law enforcement attention is associated with Traveller. Mud sticks, even if unfairly, so this is not the sort of fame we need.

 

[rich4421972]

I'm also concerned at the idea that one of the first Kickstarters to attract major law enforcement attention is associated with Traveller. Mud sticks, even if unfairly, so this is not the sort of fame we need.

agree heartily. Thou it is good to see fans uniting around the games they love (in spite of the circumstances). I hope things can get better from here on.

I would have liked to have seen your project. I love your work in general.

 

[rich4421972]

I'm also concerned at the idea that one of the first Kickstarters to attract major law enforcement attention is associated with Traveller. Mud sticks, even if unfairly, so this is not the sort of fame we need.

agree heartily.

 

[Scratches]

Losing funds to Spinward did irritate me for a while but I've gained some positives from the experience. I discovered KODT which I would have otherwise been unaware of and, being honest here, following the Kickstarter trainwreck and the history behind it has been an entertainment in itself. I am now a much smarter backer and I'm all in for Agent of the Imperium.

 

[aramis]

agree heartily.

It isn't one of the first - it's about the 6th. The others have all been dealt with by deals with State AG's.

There is little reason to think that this will get any more press than those.

[m;]MJD: STOP THE FEARMONGERING.[/m;]

 

[rich4421972]

As far as I know, GenCon 2015 was great fun and there were a multitude of people who stepped up to make the showings and the after party as pleasant as possible. Great fans!

 

[MJD]

Fearmongering wasn't my intent. I have what I think is a legitimate concern, given the effects of rumours I've seen in the past. But okay, if the mods don't think it's appropriate then I'll abide by their ruling.

 

[Echo]

As far as I know, GenCon 2015 was great fun and there were a multitude of people who stepped up to make the showings and the after party as pleasant as possible. Great fans!

Which was great and all, but many of us who backed from an international basis would have had no chance to ever get to Gen Con 2015, and again, you'll note that he sent out messages to all backers to request extra funds for the party.

Link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/d20e/spinward-traveller-tv-pilot/posts/1308803

I mean some of us are clearly suckers to have ordered models before (without any sign of delivery, or response through email, etc), but.....seriously?! Tickets were sold to attend the party, but he still wants backers to fund it on top of the money they have given for items that haven't been delivered?

 

[savage]

Fearmongering wasn't my intent. I have what I think is a legitimate concern, given the effects of rumours I've seen in the past. But okay, if the mods don't think it's appropriate then I'll abide by their ruling.

I think your concern is valid in the short term. Aramis has a point too. But i think its that we don't want to build up Traveller media's own destruction through negativity.

If we look at the Star Trek example. ST: The Motion Picture has a nice opening scene and then fell apart. Persistence on the part of the fans really makes the difference. The video's that we're produced showed some promise, but certainly not compared with any professional productions. And ST started out as professionally produced TV. If Traveller film quality could reach the level of "ST Continues..." it would still be pretty cool. It probably will just take a different team with better planning skills. Hopefully, the crew and actors we're paid in this endeavor.

Supposedly something is coming in December/January right? So, lets see what they do. :coffeesip:

 

[Echo]

Just to say, I'm entirely sympathetic with your points and to be sure the "sucker" was purely a self-mocking, ironic turn of phrase.

It's exasperating, though. I know that some people might think we are 'moaning minnies' about all this, but I too went in with no other attitude that I love Traveller and want it to do well.

There seems to have been this weird culture emerging through Kickstarter that essentially believes that consumers or 'backers' have just signed themselves away to being treated with utter contempt. I'd imagine if the same projects had approached a bank or business group about funding, they'd probably be shown the door upon any analysis. But we are just, well, 'suckers' who back these things out of pure, blind enthusiasm.

It's not just this campaign, but having seen some of Mr Whitman's outbursts against backers and knowing what it feels like first hand to be duped, there doesn't seem to be many avenues of support when it does go badly wrong like this.

So apologies to moderators, people trying hard to make something of the project, or indeed Marc Miller who I don't see as being any way a part of this...but, sheesh, what else can you do except express frustration?

 

[Mako]

Anyone know which attorney(s) general, and/or small claims courts will have jurisdiction after his move, from KY to GA?

I would think it would be the original state he was located in, at the time of the "business transactions".

 

[aramis]

Anyone know which attorney(s) general, and/or small claims courts will have jurisdiction after his move, from KY to GA?

I would think it would be the original state he was located in, at the time of the "business transactions".

KY (state where the work was done) and the customer's home state is what I've heard, possibly also the state in which Kickstarter is headquartered.

 

[savage]

Anyone know which attorney(s) general, and/or small claims courts will have jurisdiction after his move, from KY to GA?

I would think it would be the original state he was located in, at the time of the "business transactions".

Echo, I don't see any suckers in the COTI realm. I do see hopeful, active fans.

Mako, KY can still work a case in it's jurisdiction. Sam Olsen is our AG in Georgia. However, i don't think he has any jurisdiction.
http://law.ga.gov

If he moved to GA, i'd like to know about it. He might be trying to move more along the entertainment industry.

 

[Redcap]

OK, I'm not one of his many backers (by the sound of it, that's my good luck), but I'm somewhat confused about this; if an individual is allegedly suspected of (presubaly) wire fraud and deception is evading state prosecutors by jumping from state to state, isn't that interstate flight from prosecution or somesuch, and shouldn't your FBI get involved on that? As I said, just a little confused

 

[savage]

these articles/references might help a bit:
... I think the articles speak pretty well for themselves and there is more info every day.

Interesting. So, i live in Atlanta too. And interact with many directors, actors, agents, etc. I wonder if i can bump into him and get my T-shirt. :smirk:

 

[aramis]

OK, I'm not one of his many backers (by the sound of it, that's my good luck), but I'm somewhat confused about this; if an individual is allegedly suspected of (presubaly) wire fraud and deception is evading state prosecutors by jumping from state to state, isn't that interstate flight from prosecution or somesuch, and shouldn't your FBI get involved on that? As I said, just a little confused

The FBI has to be "invited in" on crimes that aren't direct federal crimes. Even for federal crimes, they can't go too far without the US AG or a federal DA approving.

Even on direct federal crimes, they're supposed to defer to local investigation for anything other than major federal felonies. Civil offenses are not within their purview, either.

To the Wire Fraud unit - Ken's probably small potatoes. Plus, they're focused upon bank fraud.

And remember: Film-making is VERY high financial risk.

So, it really is up to the various state AG's whether or not they go to bat for their constituents. Washington State has been the most aggressive.

 

[Redcap]

OK, that answers that, many thanks