So, this guy posted this vid on YouTube, and has some thoughts regarding the game's current status;
https://youtu.be/vybGM6mXGrU
What do you think?
https://youtu.be/vybGM6mXGrU
What do you think?
Traveller renaissance
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it.
What I do know, however, is that an OSR-type blooming has begun for Traveller.
Mongoose, being Mongoose, has unwittingly sparked it. First, their versions raised the game's profile attracting 3rd party writers and publishers. Second, their release of Traveller SRDs to the OGC made an OGL version of the game possible. Finally, their shortsighted and greedy revision of their licensing agreement triggered the creation of an OGL version, Cepheus Engine, while also pushing 3rd party writers and publishers towards the OGL version.
The flood of OGL materials is just starting. Someone just released a CE version of FASA's Star Trek and much more is in the works.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There is definitely an OSR bloom for Traveller going on. Over at rpg.net a guy has posted his version of The Fantasy Trip Traveller - a SJG The Fantasy Trip hack for CT. He abbreviates it TFT or T^3
It's not bad
I still think MWM could make a shedload of cash with a CT 40th anniversary edition.
It's not bad
I still think MWM could make a shedload of cash with a CT 40th anniversary edition.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I don't know that it was intended for greed in retrospect, given that Mongoose is apparently looking to create it's own MgTU, and would want a consistency and ability to use/reconcile material given that they are probably shooting for a 20-40 year run of content.
But the license overreaches that understandable goal, and isn't likely to motivate 3PP or get a land grab explosion of content given the profit is being skimmed off by the license.
I could even see dealing with the profit license in the age of PDFs, but signing away content rights when it's not based on either the OTU or MgTU is an utter dealbreaker.
Where might I find this gem? :drooling:
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
He made a few interesting points but has never read or played the game.
Otherwise he would know about the experience section in LBB:2 - no character advancement, what tosh.
Otherwise he would know about the experience section in LBB:2 - no character advancement, what tosh.
He's basing his analysis upon MGT - specifically NOT on CT, tho' he mentions it.... his lack of knowledge of older editions is plainly and painfully obvious in the comments
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
He is also one of those people dismissive of older editions of the game. (I've read his comments under some of his other videos.)
He's one of the "There was the bad old days... and now everything has been fixed in the present..." kind of guys.
My biggest problem with his videos and comments his vocabulary. He reaches for words of several syllables that often confound my attempts to understand what he is saying.
That said, he loves the Third Imperium, has a system he wants to play to explore it... more power to him!
He's one of the "There was the bad old days... and now everything has been fixed in the present..." kind of guys.
My biggest problem with his videos and comments his vocabulary. He reaches for words of several syllables that often confound my attempts to understand what he is saying.
That said, he loves the Third Imperium, has a system he wants to play to explore it... more power to him!
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I don't get this. Not at all.
People seem to love new games and games that are in print. I do understand that. But, what I don't understand is that they value the new over the old.
People play 5th ed. D&D. I play the Conan RPG by Mongoose, based on 3.5 ed. And, I own the entire game line. I don't have to wait for anything to come out.
People are playing (or will play, when it is released), the new Modiphius Star Trek game. I can't stand the Modiphius house system, and from what I've heard Aramis say about it (he likes it), it doesn't offer anything that I would like. I prefer FASA Star Trek. Love that game.
People are playing FFG's Star Wars game. I own the entire WEG D6 line, and I think that's one of the best games ever made.
You guys know my stance on Classic Traveller (though I do recognize other good Traveller games in MT and T20).
I still love Top Secret/SI.
I still love Victory Games' James Bond RPG.
Just because a system is old doesn't mean that it's a bad system. Just because a game has a new edition doesn't make the previous edition lose value. I still love 1E AD&D, with all its quirks.
Rather than growing the pie or helping create several pies and contenting themselves with a small slice of each, Mongoose wanted a bigger slice of the existing pie. That's classic short sighted "rent taking" behavior.
Whatever their conscious or unconscious motivations, their revised licensing requirements have blown up in their face. Only one 3rd party publisher of note has decided to stay in the OTU/MgTU while several others are busily publishing ATUs and other settings with the very tools Mongoose inexplicably gave away.
In this case, what turned out to be bad for Mongoose has turned out to be very good for Traveller!
I wouldn't go so far as to say I like it - I don't actually dislike 2d20, but I'm coming to realize it's a suboptimal choice for Trek. I'll stick with PD1, at least for most of my future trek gaming; FASA-Trek is equally good. It's not going to replace older trek games for me.
The fan-done works seem to be better choices than the licensed ones since Decipher lost their license. WNMHGB & Star Trek Alpha Quadrant, and a few other ones look like the real "best available legally"... 3PP as primary competitors.
likewise, CE is poised to make core Traveller irrelevant... as the 3PP start to mix-n-match.
I've watched his Traveller material on YouTube, and I didn't come away feeling he had any disdain for the older versions either.
I'm strongly positive about anyone thinking about how a renaissance could happen, and I think he makes a lot of very good points. Especially about how younger tabletop RPGers might be enticed by a more explicit advancement system, or at least some support for his quote:
"Young characters with lots of pluck need to find a place in Traveller if we want younger players."
Interesting thoughts laid down. He clearly loves the game.
On the topic of OSR he mentioned, just today I became aware of "Universal Machine," another CE-type variant system, apparently soon offering a Scouts sourcebook. Curiouser and curiouser.
I'm strongly positive about anyone thinking about how a renaissance could happen, and I think he makes a lot of very good points. Especially about how younger tabletop RPGers might be enticed by a more explicit advancement system, or at least some support for his quote:
"Young characters with lots of pluck need to find a place in Traveller if we want younger players."
Interesting thoughts laid down. He clearly loves the game.
On the topic of OSR he mentioned, just today I became aware of "Universal Machine," another CE-type variant system, apparently soon offering a Scouts sourcebook. Curiouser and curiouser.
By this do you mean MgT2e as the "core"?
So I've been releasing iOS apps for CT and T5 over the last year or so. I just looked at the analytics and here's the total downloads for each app listed in the order the apps were released:
TAS Form 2 (Character database for CT) 368
GunMaker for Traveller5™ 161
ArmorMaker for Traveller5™ 147
VehicleMaker for Traveller5™ 120
Orbital Yards (CT High Guard ship design) 121
CT seems pretty popular. Just a data point.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I'd say that's an unfair comparison, though.
If the results had compared CT to MGT, then I think we'd have a better match.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
I'm with you on this. (Of course.)
Part of this is due, I think, to our culture's obsession with "progress." If something is new, then by definition it is "improved."
But I think also, for many people, the changes (not progress, but changes) really are relevant and valuable. A lot of people do not want a game that works the RPGs did in the 1970s. The legwork that has been done over the decades provides stark changes that change the very nature of game is fundamental ways. (Not always obvious, but fundamental.) it provides a kind of play people love... and that's what matters.
The comments I'm referring to are not in his videos. (He has no concern for the older versions, so there's not need to comment on them.)
I'm referring to his comments under the videos...
I don't know about you, but I'm willing to step off the train with "pseudo-mystical reverence" and "rose colored glass."
Again, that's his deal. I'm glad he has a setting he likes and a rules system he likes. But I'm comfortable using the word "dismissive" regarding his view of the Classic Traveller rules.
I hope I don't get an infraction for this comment, but honesty is the best policy, so here goes;
The MAIN REASON I did not purchase Traveller's LBBs in 77 or 78 when it was first published, was because it wasn't that well written. Also Star Wars had hit the theatres, had a incredible score, incredible visuals, the scifi novels being published had incredible cover art by Elson, Foss, Jim Burns and the like, and the Stewart Cowley books (the first one at least) had just hit the shelves at B. Dalton.
Traveller's prose was dry, clinical, and there were no pictures until TTB and/or the Starter Edition came about. I'd see it at the back of the game stores and hobby stores, initially in a rack with some other publications, then in its own rack.
Years later when MegaTraveller came about, there was almost the same problem, only it was the cover art. I can read the classic books now, but I still get that "dry prose" vibe. I didn't get sucked in until my friend bought me the starter edition. And there in the rule book you had some pics, and you had some graphics with the two starter adventures ("Shadows" and ... "Mission on Mithril"?).
Given the game's emphasis on security scenarios, it strikes me that the two elements kept it from becoming more popular than it could have. And the tweak to the 3rd party addon license is the primary reason I haven't written anything under Mongoose's Foreven license.
So ... you know, it's a hobby I enjoy, but it's like every time I want to contribute to it there's a bit "but ..." clause tacked on somewhere. Oh well. Not a big deal. I'm posting concepts on my blog.
Those are my thoughts.
The MAIN REASON I did not purchase Traveller's LBBs in 77 or 78 when it was first published, was because it wasn't that well written. Also Star Wars had hit the theatres, had a incredible score, incredible visuals, the scifi novels being published had incredible cover art by Elson, Foss, Jim Burns and the like, and the Stewart Cowley books (the first one at least) had just hit the shelves at B. Dalton.
Traveller's prose was dry, clinical, and there were no pictures until TTB and/or the Starter Edition came about. I'd see it at the back of the game stores and hobby stores, initially in a rack with some other publications, then in its own rack.
Years later when MegaTraveller came about, there was almost the same problem, only it was the cover art. I can read the classic books now, but I still get that "dry prose" vibe. I didn't get sucked in until my friend bought me the starter edition. And there in the rule book you had some pics, and you had some graphics with the two starter adventures ("Shadows" and ... "Mission on Mithril"?).
Given the game's emphasis on security scenarios, it strikes me that the two elements kept it from becoming more popular than it could have. And the tweak to the 3rd party addon license is the primary reason I haven't written anything under Mongoose's Foreven license.
So ... you know, it's a hobby I enjoy, but it's like every time I want to contribute to it there's a bit "but ..." clause tacked on somewhere. Oh well. Not a big deal. I'm posting concepts on my blog.
Those are my thoughts.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
I can't imagine you getting an infraction for stating an opinion.
Here's mine: Books 1-3 are incredibly well written. There's no fat and in 140 or so digest sized pages the game has enough material and compact rules to keep a group playing for years. The lack of art means, adventures, or setting material means the game is not guiding me in what sorts of adventures or play I'm supposed to be playing, but allows me to use the rules to build whatever kind of setting and adventures I want based on whatever stories I have read that I love. (The text on the back of the box of both editions make it clear that this is the purpose of the game.)
I have no expectations that everyone will, or should, respond to Books 1-3 as I do. There's nothing authoritative in my words, simply my response.
Different people want different things from different RPGs. That's why new games and new approaches have developed over 40 years. A vast variety of games exist because some people's needs weren't met -- so new games game along to meet those needs.
But I have found in recent years that the early RPGs do a bang up job of meeting the needs of what I want from an RPG.
Here's mine: Books 1-3 are incredibly well written. There's no fat and in 140 or so digest sized pages the game has enough material and compact rules to keep a group playing for years. The lack of art means, adventures, or setting material means the game is not guiding me in what sorts of adventures or play I'm supposed to be playing, but allows me to use the rules to build whatever kind of setting and adventures I want based on whatever stories I have read that I love. (The text on the back of the box of both editions make it clear that this is the purpose of the game.)
I have no expectations that everyone will, or should, respond to Books 1-3 as I do. There's nothing authoritative in my words, simply my response.
Different people want different things from different RPGs. That's why new games and new approaches have developed over 40 years. A vast variety of games exist because some people's needs weren't met -- so new games game along to meet those needs.
But I have found in recent years that the early RPGs do a bang up job of meeting the needs of what I want from an RPG.
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Not JUST MgT... T5 and older editions.
Depending upon fan and 3PP handling, it could make all FFE-owned Traveller irrelevant, as well. Much as Pathfinder did for 4E D&D.
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