Traveller renaissance

[Terquem]

I am a bit curious as to how this thread went four pages long without mentioning Starfinder

Now, I am not excited about it, and sort of lost interest in Pathfinder a couple of years ago (it is just too rules heavy for an old guy like me), but I think the heavy emphasis on "science-fantasy" versus Science-Fiction, coupled with the resurgence of the Star Wars franchise says a great deal about the younger generation of gamers and where their interests lie.

 

[creativehum]

Aramis,

Thanks for the timeline info. Your point of view makes more sense now.

*******

Another topic:

I havne't read any of the CE support material, so I have a question:

• How much of it is really CE based? (For example are people digging into CE ship building rules? How dependent are the third party materials on the CE personal combat system?)
• And how much of it is "A 2d6 system with skills?"

In other words, I'm curious if CE is really the anchor here as a rules set. Or the advantage of putting the CE label onto a product because you get CE's SRD which allows people to produce "Generic 2d6 SF with Skill Lists to Taste." For example, I ordered Orbital 2100 -- but if I use it I'll be using it with CT house rules, not CE.

 

[Barsanuphius]

I am a bit curious as to how this thread went four pages long without mentioning Starfinder

Now, I am not excited about it, and sort of lost interest in Pathfinder a couple of years ago (it is just too rules heavy for an old guy like me), but I think the heavy emphasis on "science-fantasy" versus Science-Fiction, coupled with the resurgence of the Star Wars franchise says a great deal about the younger generation of gamers and where their interests lie.

Starfinder

Huh...Chronicles of Riddick come to mind.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Starfinder

Huh...Chronicles of Riddick come to mind.

Okay, but what would you do to fix the game as is?

 

[kilemall]

In a LinkedIn private message exchange Marc Miller / Avery stated that you all were looking for more adventure material, and not more ships, vehicles and equipment guides. So, I hung around for that. My patience has worn out though. Now I just post stuff that I think is fun.

Reflecting on the game I was pretty convinced that it was designed as a security training tool. Which, to me, means that even though scifi is theoretically aimed at teens and men with scifi hankerins, again just my impression here, that the game in reality was meant as a training tool for active duty and retired security. But then why publish two computer games? So, my thinking shifted once again (even though you're playing out your retirement in the game ... why is that?).

I think Marc Miller is a great concept guy, but like I said, the LBBs were dry and clinical reads. I had to sit in on a D&D session to learn how to play (maybe within ... what now ... three or four months of my friend buying me the starter edition), and the example of play in TTB was tucked near the back, not lending itself to exposition.

Er.

Don't get this one, at all. But my frame of reference was the actual state of the art of RPGs in 1977. AD&D 1E had not come out, we were having to be shown how to do D&D because the original set was a mess and the starter one was even worse. The Fantasy Trip was just coming out, no GURPS yet.

The LBBs were by contrast chock full of mechanic goodness, an embarassment of riches compared to most.

I guess another frame of reference was wargaming rules. AH and especially SPI rule writing had a lot of content to get across, LBBs seemed simplistic yet open-ended by comparison.

AD&D was a whole lot of spruced up goodies compared to any of the previous material, sure beat crutching on the near mimeograph level of the early Dragon magazines, but other then that great iconic pillaging of the jeweled idol on the cover the images weren't that key for me. But that was after Traveller came out.

So, I might get your critique looking at it from four decades worth of production improvement and options, and TTB is kind of the AD&D edition for Original Traveller, but for the era, it was almost cutting edge.

 

[creativehum]

For me, as illustrated by posts across this board, this whole topic founders on the question, "What is Traveller?" Or even more precisely, "Which Traveller?"

The maker of the video at the top of this thread has a very different idea of what Traveller is than I do. But that is the issue in almost all these conversations.

 

[Quint]

Er.

Don't get this one, at all. But my frame of reference was the actual state of the art of RPGs in 1977. AD&D 1E had not come out, we were having to be shown how to do D&D because the original set was a mess and the starter one was even worse. The Fantasy Trip was just coming out, no GURPS yet.

The LBBs were by contrast chock full of mechanic goodness, an embarassment of riches compared to most.

I guess another frame of reference was wargaming rules. AH and especially SPI rule writing had a lot of content to get across, LBBs seemed simplistic yet open-ended by comparison.

AD&D was a whole lot of spruced up goodies compared to any of the previous material, sure beat crutching on the near mimeograph level of the early Dragon magazines, but other then that great iconic pillaging of the jeweled idol on the cover the images weren't that key for me. But that was after Traveller came out.

So, I might get your critique looking at it from four decades worth of production improvement and options, and TTB is kind of the AD&D edition for Original Traveller, but for the era, it was almost cutting edge.

THIS!

Compared to AH/SPI rules, Traveller was a marvel of evocative text, and compared to OD&D it was a powerhouse of elegant game design.

The problem is that the world moved on.

Most people, me included, want a game that compares well to modern standards. I can appreciate the LBB's for what they were, and even what they cane be, but I want a game that fits the current standards.

There's a metaphor in there somewhere about shooting sports and blackpowder vs. modern firearms, and even replica vs. antique blackpowder weapons, but I'm not sure I want spend the time building it...

I spent about 15 years running my 1E fantasy campaign world using various iterations of a homebrew (I'm now back to 5E and loving it). My spouse's biggest complaint was that things would change without warning when I had some new improvement to the system. In some ways I feel like that with Traveller - I'm kind of burned out by the rules changes, but the Era shifts, and by a game that is seemingly out of touch with a modern audience. I really liked MgT but the switch to a new edition of the rules and the "need" to repurchase everything just leaves me with a horrible taste in my mouth.

That's why I've switched to CE. I'm interested in what happens with the OTU, it's a fascinating milieu, but I can't imagine buying Traveller supplements like I used to - even if the ones that sound interesting (Galaxiad?) are ever released.

D.

 

[LiNeNoiSe]

The fan-done works seem to be better choices than the licensed ones since Decipher lost their license. WNMHGB & Star Trek Alpha Quadrant, and a few other ones look like the real "best available legally"... 3PP as primary competitors.

Thanks for the reminder. Looking through my collection, there are a least a half a dozen d20 versions of Trek. I'd sure like to see a half dozen Traveller versions.

 

[LiNeNoiSe]

There is definitely an OSR bloom for Traveller going on. Over at rpg.net a guy has posted his version of The Fantasy Trip Traveller - a SJG The Fantasy Trip hack for CT. He abbreviates it TFT or T^3

Thanks, Mike. Should be some way to work talents and flaws into optional rules for Cepheus.

 

[whartung]

I remember my mom telling me what I fool I was to send in SSDs to Steve Cole down in Amarillo without charging money. Eh, she really didn't understand that SSDs were proprietary to the game, but I'm starting to get those feelings with Traveller.

Whatever. I hope more people chime in here, but I've said all I had to.

You know, I really wanted to write for this thing. But, like everything else, reality has a different lot for you. Oh well.

If you want to "easily" "write for Traveller", then CE if your venue. Seems to me that you can just go out and create anything you desire against the ruleset with few limitations and without asking permission.

People DO want adventures and such. Background material might be interesting, but adventures are more interesting. Adventures implicitly have background material, however marginal. Think of pounding out 10 adventures similar to writing 10 short stories that are potentially remotely related, in some tangible, yet not necessarily concrete universe.

You don't need galaxy spanning politics to have interesting adventures.

CE gives you a physical universe, Traveller and its Imperium offers a political one.

D&D players seem to manage to play for years without going more than 50 miles from their home town (the horse get tires, you see, and everyone forgets to bring oats for them). You can flesh out a city, a county, a country, a planet, a space station, a gas giant mining facility, an asteroid belt. All of these things can be readily re-used by any Traveller player or referee, even though, ostensibly, they're built for CE.

Because the simple truth is that all of the physical Traveller universes are mostly the same (we can quibble about TNE M-Drives). Since your work shares that physical universe, its readily transplantable. If it doesn't fit an Imperial political universe, how hard is it really for a referee to swap out some character representing some agency in your game to one representing an Imperial agency. Who would notice?

So, yea, if you want to write for "The Imperium", then you're going to have issues. If you want to write for star systems conveniently spaced parsecs apart in a hex pattern with 1 week of travel separating them, where folks haul wheat across the stars with cutlasses strapped to their belts, then you can easily do that under CE.

 

[aramis]

Thanks for the reminder. Looking through my collection, there are a least a half a dozen d20 versions of Trek. I'd sure like to see a half dozen Traveller versions.

STAQ is totally unsuitable for my purposes... ships are almost totally undefined.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

There is definitely an OSR bloom for Traveller going on. Over at rpg.net a guy has posted his version of The Fantasy Trip Traveller - a SJG The Fantasy Trip hack for CT. He abbreviates it TFT or T^3

Should be some way to work talents and flaws into optional rules for Cepheus.

You can. Mosh the other available SRD. Some of this had been done for Traveller years and years ago.

If you look at the following books:
MgT 2300AD - Traits and Flaws
Cthonian Stars - Traits and Flaws
Flynn's Guide to Aliens in Traveller - Racial Traits
The MgT 1e Judge Dredd line - Feats
Strontium Dog - Feats
Flynn's Guide to Magic in Traveller - Magic

These books effectively raided the d20 SRD incorporating many of its elements into MgT. Racial Traits were called Alien Traits like MgT. Feats are called "Special Techniques" and are given as a selection in Career Advanced Education Tables.
Because it is SRD, in some cases the wording did not even have to chang. Heck Flynn's Guide even has Stalwart Movement and Stonecunning "Alien Traits", decidedly...Dwarven traits.

 

[Spenser TR]

If you want to "easily" "write for Traveller", then CE if your venue. Seems to me that you can just go out and create anything you desire against the ruleset with few limitations and without asking permission.

Except you can never use the words "Traveller" or "Imperium" or use anything at all setting-specific. I love the idea of writing a variant, non-canon sourcebook about the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service's selection process, but the idea of writing a sourcebook for the Generic Astro Survey Service selection process thrills me not-at-all.

I'd also read such material until the pixels were threadbare. I look forward to every Freelance Traveller issue, and I'm pining for more Imperallines.

I really like a lot of aspects of the Third Imperium setting. Also, my only requirements for a rules set is that 1. it can't be unplayable and 2. my players have to grok it. Whatever the minimum amount a referee has to care about a ruleset to run an enjoyable game for his/her set of players, that's how little I care about the ruleset. All of this being said - writing stuff "for Traveller" in spirit and within the letter of the law appeals to me, while writing something that someone -could- pick up and insert into their Traveller game but that must be devoid of Traveller name, setting and spirit by law... no thanks.

Strange, I know.

And granted, it's definitely easy to write for CE, or any other of the OSR rulesets; you just do it. Writing officially for Traveller is hard, in any way you define the word.

I should get off my posterior and work something out so I could publish my ridiculous material about setting, items, cultures, planets, careers, and so on under some sort of license. Or at FT, or IL. An easier system to do this under Traveller license where I could contribute but also not sign everything away would be awesome, and if I had to adhere to the T5 ( or T5.5, T6, or whatever ) ruleset to do it, we're back to "shut up and take my money."

 

[kilemall]

So, yea, if you want to write for "The Imperium", then you're going to have issues. If you want to write for star systems conveniently spaced parsecs apart in a hex pattern with 1 week of travel separating them, where folks haul wheat across the stars with cutlasses strapped to their belts, then you can easily do that under CE.

If you are in the space wheat hauling business, cutlasses are all you can afford.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Except you can never use the words "Traveller" or "Imperium" or use anything at all setting-specific. I love the idea of writing a variant, non-canon sourcebook about the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service's selection process, but the idea of writing a sourcebook for the Generic Astro Survey Service selection process thrills me not-at-all.

Which is NOT the reason I sold my house and moved north, but I had planned on writing generic scifi modules, but the entertainment lawyer I consulted with did not reccomend it, and worded it in litigative-ese. If I wrote a generic fantasy module, and it was seen as a threat or drawing away customers from Mattel's subsidiary, then they'd probably just pound me with legal proceedings until I ran out of money, or so he postulated.

So ... I see stuff up on Drivethru that aren't adventures, but are equipment or "encounter" PDFs, or something with some rudimentary rules, and where my lawyer says I can write what I want, the truth is I can't.

And I'm sorry for harping on another man's creation. It was one of the few things I had left, but hell, I don't even play anymore. But, like I said, it was a fun ride.

Recap;
Reorganize the rules;

1) Rules first
2) Clear example of play
3) Clear task role
4) Char gen (any age)
5) Experience; tie it to skill level
6) Then, as an option, the Imperium background with Aslan, Vargr, Hivers, Solis/Terrans et al, and all the history.

Reflecting back on the 70s, I do wonder that since the game was designed to for characters to play out their retirement, that if the game itself wasn't aimed at retired security/military/law-enforcement to game out scenarios.

Interesting if there's an ounce in that thought, but guys like me who were pre-teens thought it was another cool thing to have.

So, now I'm really done for a long time.

check out my blog if you get a chance

 

[LiNeNoiSe]

MgT 2300AD - Traits and Flaws
Cthonian Stars - Traits and Flaws
Flynn's Guide to Aliens in Traveller - Racial Traits
The MgT 1e Judge Dredd line - Feats
Strontium Dog - Feats
Flynn's Guide to Magic in Traveller - Magic

Thanks, Nathan. I apparently need to increase my anagathic dosage. My memory is shot.

 

[LiNeNoiSe]

STAQ is totally unsuitable for my purposes... ships are almost totally undefined.

That's sort of my point. I'd like to see a qualified gearhead recreate the FASA Ship Construction Manual. I've been toying with the idea of redoing parts of Trader Captains and Merchant Princes. Wouldn't mind seeing somebody re-write LUG or Decipher under Cepheus. Prime Directive should be easy to re-boot, since there's both a d20 and a GURPS version.

 

[Barsanuphius]

STAQ is totally unsuitable for my purposes... ships are almost totally undefined.

What is STAQ?
Doing a google search I get a software company.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Aramis, or someone in the know, can someone explain how Judge's Guild, FASA and everyone else "back in the day" were able to purchase a license to publish official material, and why that mechanism wasn't made available in more recent years?

 

[atpollard]

Aramis, or someone in the know, can someone explain how Judge's Guild, FASA and everyone else "back in the day" were able to purchase a license to publish official material, and why that mechanism wasn't made available in more recent years?

Steve Jackson and Mongoose have more specific and detailed licenses that limit unrestricted competition to protect their franchises. The GURPS Traveller license has expired, but the Mongoose License is still active.

This just means that some of what was done in the early days is no longer legal (due to existing contracts) ...[speculation on my part, since I do not have access to the actual contracts].

However, new contracts have been awarded. Cirque was published for T5 under a new license. I believe that there is another License holder for a card game.

If you are asking why Marc doesn't give out licenses to publish MgT compatible products, that right almost certainly belongs to Mongoose and the TAS is how they have chosen to make that available.