... doesn't build starships at all, at least officially. Milieu 1115 stats have the starport at Class B. It's only in the New Era timeframe that the starport gets upgraded to Class A.
The only official starship construction happens at the Scout Base, if at all.
IMTU, I'm leaning toward thinking the ongoing omnishambles of a starport project at Inchin is actually a covert means for Collace to establish a deniable -- to avoid provoking Trexalon -- starship construction program, and the starport is actually much further along than it appears.
Of course, that's not all that's going on there, but it's part of it.
From the Wiki
Collace/District 268 (Spinward Marches 1237)
Milieu 1116
B628943-D
And
Collace/Plankwell (Spinward Marches 1237)
New Era
A628943-E
Under LBB2 worldbuilding rules, it's Industrial because it has ATM: 2 (0-2, 4, 7, 9) and POP: 9 (9+) in both eras.
Haven't crosschecked it against other rulesets.
And yeah, Starport B doesn't mean they don't build starships -- just that they won't build one for you.
I still like the idea that they're going to offworld starship production to Inchin without telling anyone.
Trexalon could start building starships too if they wanted.
Each would, they're just waiting for a provocation.
As it stands, they each probably have significant fleets of very large open-frame modular freighters sourced from elsewhere that they mutually agree to pretend aren't really battlerider carriers.
Collace/District 268 (Spinward Marches 1237)
Milieu 1116
B628943-D
And
Collace/Plankwell (Spinward Marches 1237)
New Era
A628943-E
Under LBB2 worldbuilding rules, it's Industrial because it has ATM: 2 (0-2, 4, 7, 9) and POP: 9 (9+) in both eras.
Haven't crosschecked it against other rulesets.
And yeah, Starport B doesn't mean they don't build starships -- just that they won't build one for you.
I still like the idea that they're going to offworld starship production to Inchin without telling anyone.
Trexalon could start building starships too if they wanted.
Each would, they're just waiting for a provocation.
As it stands, they each probably have significant fleets of very large open-frame modular freighters sourced from elsewhere that they mutually agree to pretend aren't really battlerider carriers.
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Actually, the question you should be asking is: What would you use a Corsair for if it were unarmed and lacked the Transponder Spoof.
I think the answer is any class A starport of sufficient Tech Level. It's my thought that Corsairs are not "Factory Spec" ships, but rather a modified, common ship design. (Perhaps a modified surplus X-Boat tender of some sort.)
Just my .02 CrImp
I think the answer is any class A starport of sufficient Tech Level. It's my thought that Corsairs are not "Factory Spec" ships, but rather a modified, common ship design. (Perhaps a modified surplus X-Boat tender of some sort.)
Just my .02 CrImp
That makes more sense. Mind you, whoever designed the base model may have intended for it to be easily modified into a Corsair...
Under LBB2, it could have been a pocket fighter-carrier, and the large cargo bay doors meant as the fighter bay.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I agree that the Type P is probably closer to a Type R in its first life. Someone has to be building the legit version or the pirates wouldn't have anyone to hide amongst with those variable appearance features.
But at fifteen pages we're getting circular...
But at fifteen pages we're getting circular...
I thought I'd cribbed it from Trillion Credit Squadron, but it's not in there (Class B starports can't even do J-Drive refits even with a suitable TL, but they can repair J-Drive battle damage but at double the cost). Might have seen it in one of the discussions of starports here on COTI.
The basic premise here is Trexalon would view Collace building a fleet of starships on its own as a precursor to war and strike preemptively, or at least that's a prevailing belief.
Now, I could see Collace building a bunch of 400Td in-system fast freighters with extra space in the engine room and shipping them to Inchin for final outfitting (crew quarters/life support, controls, etc.), while "coincidentally" also shipping them Jump Drives that "just happen" to fit into that extra space. (This is a subset of a scheme of proxy-building a variety of commercial starships in the same manner.)
Inchin gets to pretend they have a Class A starport because they're "building" starships (but nobody really believes them, hence the actual D starport rating*). They're not making much profit on this arrangement, but it's enough to keep the lights on -- mostly. Collace is subsidizing the shipping costs to keep Inchin ships competitively priced despite their being built almost entirely of imported components.
Collace gets to pretend they're not building starships.
Trexalon is pissed but won't get into a shooting war over it unless Collace starts proxy-building Jump-capable warships there.
* This implies that in general it's Class D, but a PC ship with crew or passengers that the "Baron" of Inchin wants to impress could get service equivalent to Starport Class B. This would include Active Duty Scouts, TAS members, and those with SOC-C+. It'd mean pushing back delivery for paying customers, and costs would reflect that.
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Be clean, be green, be a recycling machine
There IS that as well.
As long as you outrun and outgun a A free trader or most Subsidized liner (i.e. you are M-2 with 2 to 4 triple turrets) you are in the corsair/pirate business.
Owner of Letter of Marque could lawfully order a Corsair. Once the war is over, or the Letter otherwise expired, it could be lawfully acquire. Some local authority may require stripping of some gear: ECCM, ECM, sophisticated wpnry etc... much like buying a used police car. I bought a old school minibus to convert into a family van, I had to make 1,500$ of stripping work "to make it unsuitable for further use as a bus" before I could have it plated as a truck.
Of course, those restricted materials could be fitted latter... if you can get your hands on some.
Any B Yard should be able to turn a long legged trader into a commerce raider (Corsair/pirate) if hard pts and computer space was reserved. May be C if only retrofitting removed material.
Have fun
Selandia
Owner of Letter of Marque could lawfully order a Corsair. Once the war is over, or the Letter otherwise expired, it could be lawfully acquire. Some local authority may require stripping of some gear: ECCM, ECM, sophisticated wpnry etc... much like buying a used police car. I bought a old school minibus to convert into a family van, I had to make 1,500$ of stripping work "to make it unsuitable for further use as a bus" before I could have it plated as a truck.
Of course, those restricted materials could be fitted latter... if you can get your hands on some.
Any B Yard should be able to turn a long legged trader into a commerce raider (Corsair/pirate) if hard pts and computer space was reserved. May be C if only retrofitting removed material.
Have fun
Selandia
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Traditional commerce raiders should be able to outgun anything that can outrun them, or outrun anything that should outgun them.
Conversions tend towards honeypots.
Conversions tend towards honeypots.
"What a piece of junk!"
"Hey, I've made a lot of special modifications, she's got it where it counts, kid."
It's in LBB5.
"A planetary navy may procure ships at any shipyard within the borders of its subsector;, alternatively, a planetary navy may construct ships on its planet, using local resources, even if a shipyard is not present." (LBB5 '81, p. 20)
Yep. Doesn't mean there aren't a few ex-military ships (including armed auxiliaries) they built for the Fourth Frontier War still running around out there.
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Duke Craig
SOC-12
RRS
At the risk of repeating oft said words...
Piracy noun 1. the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea. 2 the unauthorized use or production of another's work. (from the Latin purateivitia "sailor, corsair, sea robber") from the Greek peirates literally "one who attacks (ships)".
Corsairs, aka pirates could be found aboard almost any class of ships from a pinnace to a frontier cruiser or even ...
Some really good ideas in this interesting thread. Particularly about the privateers in wartime.
As mentioned by mbrinkhues (and others),
Another possible official or commercial need for the corsair class privateer sloop might be rescue and retrieval of small craft and starship 200 tons or less. Since Traveller is largely ~ a small ship unverse, there must be a multitude of small ships "flying" maneuvering around in space. Some of these are bound to be marooned in space. In steps "the R.R.S".
The Rescue and Retrieval Service would be supplicated by the salvage service and smaller privately run salvage industry for ships and supplies. The scout tender or the corsair class ships would fill the role admirably with the corsair providing escort for the large less well armed tender.
Every self respecting MegaCorp would have one or more available in many second or third tier stellar systems depending on volumes of traffic and perceived risk.
Additionally some large "belter" outfits might see a need for one or more of these "Fast Tenders" supporting their fleets of seekers and small merchants.
Some awesome possible adventure scenarios in this thread. Thanks.
Thanks for reading.
At the risk of repeating oft said words...
Piracy noun 1. the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea. 2 the unauthorized use or production of another's work. (from the Latin purateivitia "sailor, corsair, sea robber") from the Greek peirates literally "one who attacks (ships)".
Corsairs, aka pirates could be found aboard almost any class of ships from a pinnace to a frontier cruiser or even ...
Some really good ideas in this interesting thread. Particularly about the privateers in wartime.
As mentioned by mbrinkhues (and others),
Another possible official or commercial need for the corsair class privateer sloop might be rescue and retrieval of small craft and starship 200 tons or less. Since Traveller is largely ~ a small ship unverse, there must be a multitude of small ships "flying" maneuvering around in space. Some of these are bound to be marooned in space. In steps "the R.R.S".
The Rescue and Retrieval Service would be supplicated by the salvage service and smaller privately run salvage industry for ships and supplies. The scout tender or the corsair class ships would fill the role admirably with the corsair providing escort for the large less well armed tender.
Every self respecting MegaCorp would have one or more available in many second or third tier stellar systems depending on volumes of traffic and perceived risk.
Additionally some large "belter" outfits might see a need for one or more of these "Fast Tenders" supporting their fleets of seekers and small merchants.
Some awesome possible adventure scenarios in this thread. Thanks.
Thanks for reading.
Actually, you kinda can; we just don't want it for drama reasons.
That's one of the paradoxes of the game as written. Imperial Marches is 271 systems with a total GWP somewhere between MCr 1.5 x 10^9 and MCr 4 x 10^9 depending on what rules you use to count it. Most of that's concentrated in the usual places but, if the will to stamp out piracy were there, it could be done. A classic CT fighter's MCr18, or you could set up a ship's boat as a gunned customs boat complete with boarding party for not much more than that. Given the lifespan of these craft, if you tapped no more than one credit in a million for anti-piracy work then you'd have enough to field a couple or three customs boats in every system with crews and support and some money left over for other projects. Heck, the Imperial Navy could do the job out of their own budget: the cost of a couple of Imperial dreadnoughts could put a DE in every system in the Imperial Marches.
Putting that aside, a ground-to-orbit missile system could be installed for a few million credits. There are few worlds that don't have the income to get loans for a few launchers, the incentive to dissuade someone from hanging over your head and extorting you from orbit is high, and it only takes a couple of hits to turn a potentially profitable enterprise into a money-losing proposition. Since most travel is basically from the jump limit of one world to the jump limit of the next, such defenses would make piracy a very difficult enterprise.
However, that's a rather boring universe. It'd be rather like going for an adventure through downtown Manhattan with your cell phone handy to call 911 if you get in trouble. So, most folk either avoid looking at the details or contrive some reason why, curse the luck, the locals manning the missile batteries are looking the other way.
Duke Craig
SOC-12
Thanks for this post.
Did you run a spreadsheet from canon sources to get to the MCr 1.5 x 10^9 and MCr 4 x 10^9?
Some years ago, Perhaps 2012-3, I ran a spreadsheet on the Spinward Marches to answer just this question.
I used T4 Pocket Empires and Regency Sourcebook Keepers of the Flame (as the most up-to-date data at the time).
However I did not use the canon Resouces, Labor, Infrastructure, Culture. Instead I randomized it.
And I learned a lot about the SM. For instance which were the powerhouse subsectors and worlds and which were the backwaters (both in economic terms (Resource Units in T4) and population.
In this venture I only considered primary worlds and ignored all secondary worlds.
I made some discussion about it in this thread - http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=31594
As you can see there, the totals for SM were somewhat different from Canon (probably because of the randomization).
One thing of note was the Total Subsector Resource Units. I found the SM RU total was 128,010 RUs.
Each RU according to T4 Pocket Empires is approx. 5,000 MCr.
5000 MCr/RU * 128020 RU = 640,100,000 MCr
where 1 RU = 5000 MCr
5000 MCr = 5 billion credits.
Thats 640,100,000,000,000 Crs or 6.401 x 10^14 Cr or 6.401 x 10^8 MCr.
That's within one order of magnitude smaller than your figure above.
This suggests that over an entire sector what was not important was the randomization, but what was important was the DMs (dice modifiers).
Edit: I might go back and have a look at the Traveller wiki and bring the spreadsheet up to canon standards, when I have a week spare hehe...
Thanks for reading.
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