Post-Wave Canon and Semi-Canon

[robject]

Here's some of the stuff I know that's sharable and at least semi-canonical about Charted Space, post-Wave.

Big Black Books (T5)

001-1902 IC = The Far Far Future. The Galaxiad takes place here. [BBB1 p13]
TL 17 = Circa 1902. [BBB3 p168,172]
TL 19 = The Far Far Future. [BBB2 pp230-234,240], [BBB3 pp168,172]

Xboat

All post-wave information in Xboat is preliminary -- that is, subject to change without notice.

Republic of Regina article [III,20+] -- but some of it has already been superseded a bit. For example, the physical center of the Republic has moved closer to Rhylanor than Forboldn.

(RoR = Republic of Regina)

"Historical details before 1500 were lost" [III,3]

1400: Regina reaches TL16.
1450: Regina drops to TL14.
1500: Regina drops to TL13.
1506-1508?: The Foreven War. [I,14, III,3]
1540: Regina drops to TL12.
1600: Regina reaches TL13.
1648: Republic of Regina formation.
1660: Regina reaches TL14.
1750: Regina reaches TL15.
1850: Regina reaches TL16. Its UWP is A788976-G [III,22]
1891+: Mk I Frontier Raider in production and use. [I,6]
1892+: Edwards' Far Trader in use on the frontier of the RoR. [II,6]
1902: Hop drive suddenly, mysteriously discovered on Boughene. [III,3]
1902: RoR begins production of TL17 patrol corvettes. [I,20].
1903: TL17 true AI (= NPC) damage-control robots planned. [I,22]
[1903?] 1000t Orca Mk IV Luxury Transport produced with a Hop drive. [III,4]

1900: There are half-sector-sized empires, separated by 40+ parsecs, in Stiatlchepr, Ziafrplians, Karleaya, Hlakoi, Dark Nebula, the Solomani Rim, Daibei, Ilelish, Core, Vland, and Meshan, as well as three in K’kree and two in Hiver territory. [III,3]

 

[coliver988]

thanks! Reading the XBoat has made me want to play in the Galaxiad era: seems similar in intent to the original Spinward Marches: smaller things farther removed from any central authority and strange things to explore. Before the Marches got so well defined it left out most of the mystery.

 

[robject]

My pleasure. I want to play in this era as well... I should do something about that.

Well, what sorts of things do you want to see, to make this setting accessible? I think about the Spinward Marches and what's changed, but I think in order to adventure in a frontier or wilderness setting the referee has to do a lot of legwork. Seems that the ref needs tools that help determine what's what out there.

In fact, that might be a cool tool. Since the wilderness is by definition kinda in flux, that means a tool that generates local TEDs or petty pirate bands or chaotic world governments would be perfectly fine, because by definition everything changes fast.

But a "wilderness mapper" could suggest guidelines, offer methods, random tables, something...

 

[whulorigan]

My pleasure. I want to play in this era as well... I should do something about that.

Well, what sorts of things do you want to see, to make this setting accessible? I think about the Spinward Marches and what's changed ...

This is somewhat tangential to your question, but I think the setting needs to have a distinctive flavor, other than just being "it is now 800 years later ... ".

What makes this setting distinctive as compared to the eras that came before it (such as Milieu:1100 or Milieu:0)? How have the higher TLs (and local-sized poilties) changed society as a whole? Galaxiad is a wide-open setting. It would be a shame if it just ended up being the same feel and flavor as earlier settings, but with Hop-Drives and sentient AIs added. For one thing, I think mature Globe Technology (and its options) has many applications and possible implications.

 

[Timerover51]

I assume that "Hop" drives are covered somewhere in T5.10.

 

[whulorigan]

I assume that "Hop" drives are covered somewhere in T5.10.

Yes. A whole range of higher order drives in fact, each improving upon the last by an order of magnitude at higher ultra-tech TLs:

Book 2, p. 122 (et al):

1. TL-9+ : Jump = Jn x 10⁰ pc
2. TL-17+ : Hop = Jn x 10¹ pc
3. TL-20+ : Skip = Jn x 10² pc
4. TL-23+ : Leap = Jn x 10³ pc
5. TL-26+ : Bound = Jn x 10⁴ pc
6. TL-29+ : Vault = Jn x 10⁵ pc
7. TL-31+ : "Six"-Drive = Jn x 10⁶ pc
8. TL-32+ : "Seven"-Drive = Jn x 10⁷ pc
9. TL-33+ : "Eight"-Drive = Jn x 10⁸ pc
10. TL-34+ : "Nine"-Drive = Jn x 10⁹ pc

 

[Timerover51]

Yes. A whole range of higher order drives in fact, each improving upon the last by an order of magnitude at higher ultra-tech TLs:

I assume that all of these can also perform at much shorter distances? Such as one or two parsecs?

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Playing a game in the Far Far future has very different technology - but that is sufficiently different that the social implications are not clear which makes the society as described discordant at present.

If the philosophy of the people isn't based in now, then it will be unplayable by many. Which means that you have "Now with high-tech".

But if you look at the societal and attitudinal changes that have occurred over the life of Traveller, you can see how technology changes everyone's view of the world. The idea of a pocket communicator was just so Star-Trek. Indeed compare 2021 to 1921 and it becomes astonishing.

And if you want a society that you really don't instinctually understand, try 1421. or 1421BC. or 2421BC (You're an Astrogator...Come and see our Henges - tip-top technology mate - Wot? - yer got one in yer pocket?).

 

[coliver988]

Playing a game in the Far Far future has very different technology - but that is sufficiently different that the social implications are not clear which makes the society as described discordant at present.

If the philosophy of the people isn't based in now, then it will be unplayable by many. Which means that you have "Now with high-tech".

But if you look at the societal and attitudinal changes that have occurred over the life of Traveller, you can see how technology changes everyone's view of the world. The idea of a pocket communicator was just so Star-Trek. Indeed compare 2021 to 1921 and it becomes astonishing.

And if you want a society that you really don't instinctually understand, try 1421. or 1421BC. or 2421BC (You're an Astrogator...Come and see our Henges - tip-top technology mate - Wot? - yer got one in yer pocket?).

Pretty much the central premise to Traveller originally at any rate: society and people have not changed as much as the technology (and in the original Traveller, even tech was not that far removed).

I'd have a hard time playing in an entirely different society, such as trans-humanism. I just don't think in the way that would work for that (not to get political, but the closest I can come up with is that people with a lot of money think a lot differently than the rest of us in my experience, and what is important vs not important are entirely different realms).

One of the draws to Traveller for me was that it essentially posited modern humanity has not changed much though the technology did. And in the blurbs in XBoat, the Galaxiad era seems to handle things much the same way but with more science fiction so to speak (hop drives! AI! a ship that is not mostly a gas tank! Now a valid reason to have pirates! Argh!)

But to Rob's question: I would like some (but definitely not all) of the pocket empires expanded a bit, a bit of social background to hang a game off of, perhaps some fleet information, and lots of mysteries that are not defined but hinted at, so that MGTU can go in interesting directions without breaking canon as canon is vague enough in some areas. Not that I ever really worried too much about canon but it is nice to have a common framework at times.

MGTU = My Galaxiad Traveller Universe

 

[whulorigan]

I assume that all of these can also perform at much shorter distances? Such as one or two parsecs?

Actually, based on the T5.10 rules as currently written, I do not think so. A Hop Drive's minimum Hop distance is nominally from >9 pc to 10 pc. However, you can always plot your Hop-course to intersect with a destination-world at a shorter distance, and you will precipitate out of Hop at the 1000-diameter Hop-limit after 1 week in Hop-Space.

The higher order drives also suffer from increasingly greater "exit-scatter", meaning that the amount of uncertainty in the exit point is greater with increasing drives. A Leap Drive might get you within so many parsecs of your intended destination, and then you will have to re-plot to get to where you finally wish to go. But drives at that TL are usually using Antimatter power, so the fuel usage is much less.

 

[robject]

[People are people]

My assumption as well.

What makes this setting distinctive as compared to the eras that came before it ... ? How have the higher TLs (and local-sized poilties) changed society as a whole? ... For one thing, I think mature Globe Technology (and its options) has many applications and possible implications.

* ASSUME Hop infiltrates ship building starting around 1902 with military vessels, then luxury/corporate vessels a year or two or three later, then traders a few years later. No hard dates yet! But by 1910, Traders could get a Hop refit (or a Hop option). The Free Trader's reach becomes 10 parsecs instead of 1. Which worlds would you visit on the Main if you didn't have to?

** Hop is initially a specialist drive, because existing infrastructure isn't suited for it. Hop precipitates you out at 1000D; if your system has a spaceport around an outer gas giant, then that's what you're aiming for. But do your passengers want to fly 1000D to the mainworld? They might be in flight for another half a week.

(Yes, that might not be a problem, but it does dilute the giddiness of having those long legs.)

** Hop means settlements on valuable or important worlds can become even more important, and marginal worlds become even less useful. Charted Space could stretch to ten times its current area ("volume"). Also: empires slowly grow into networks of connected Strong Worlds, (MAYBE with resource worlds clustered close by?), and pockets of wilderness or frontier in between.


Globes changes combat. Your Trader can install a Globe. Imagine a pirate with a Globe. I think it feels like an arms race.

* Still unresolved (I think even in T5) is to what degree you can channel power from the Globe to a ship's jump capacitors, and what risks are balanced against that.

"AI" only has a few facets that may or may not be interesting. First, you can play a robot. Second, robots may be second-class, but they're not machines that get you "free" labor and ship automation. Rather, you get Ash and Bishop. Finally and strangely, you get starship characters.

[Can Hop jump shorter distances?]

As Wayne said, this is a side-effect: aim it at a star (assume you can) and it will precipitate out, even if it's only 2 parsecs away, or 8 parsecs away. But:

* you still arrive 1000D from the mainworld.
* unless you can pinpoint a large mass in an empty hex, you won't be able to Hop there.

So, Hop is initially a specialist drive. The jump drive may never go extinct.

But to Rob's question:
1. I would like some (but definitely not all) of the pocket empires expanded a bit,
2. a bit of social background to hang a game off of,
3. perhaps some fleet information, and
4. lots of mysteries that are not defined but hinted at, so that MGTU can go in interesting directions without breaking canon as canon is vague enough in some areas. Not that I ever really worried too much about canon but it is nice to have a common framework at times.

Thank you. Can you talk about #2 a bit more?

 

[coliver988]

a bit of social background to hang a game off of

What I mean is that some societal changes will have happened: people have survived some major ups and downs, and looks like a lot of history has been lost (though I would really posit that seems really unlikely but hey, it works to add to the mysteries I seem to constantly allude to)

In broad strokes, we have several potentially cooperative and potentially competing pocket empires. How does the core of these relatively small regions compare to the edges? Do the people feel secure on Regina, and less so furher out? Recalling that the Spinward Marches was supposed to be (at least how I interpreted it) similar to the Wild West of the 1800s: some high civilization but a lot of wild and wooly planets to explore. It gave gamers a wide range of options (and even after the Marches got more and more detailed and more and more of the Imperium, there were still districts outside of the Imperium that begged for discovery and player/GM autonomy)

These pockets, getting some really nice high tech: are they trying to spread the technology around, or keep it to themselves to preserve their advantages? Are there privateers between these pockets (sorry, just re-read a Cepheus engine book on Privateers and Piracy and the Galaxiad seems like a really good fit so far). Are there pockets of potential transhumanism/we can't figure out what that society is doing?

How are the other races doing? Are they better/worse/the same in terms of integration into the more human-centric mini-empires? And of course they have their own systems, how are humans integrated there? More of the same, or has the Wave and all that changed even basic behavior or accented it (the K'kree it seems have gone full-bore on carnivores if I read that correctly)

Knowing that there are pockets of the Imperium back, are there factions trying to bring it back in some new way? Are there rumors of even more advanced pockets out there somewhere, a post-scarcity society that have closed the doors behind them?

Anyway - I actually prefer the little pieces you've been giving in XBoat: enough to indicate there is a lot more out there, but not defined. It allows us to use our imagination for our view. Sort of how I really disliked the Star Wars prequels actually defining how the Force works: defining it ruined it for me. Sometimes the mystery, the unknown, is a lot more tantalizing and allows us to play how we really want to without having to be constrained to very specific canon.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

In broad strokes, we have several potentially cooperative and potentially competing pocket empires. How does the core of these relatively small regions compare to the edges?
....
How are the other races doing? Are they better/worse/the same in terms of integration into the more human-centric mini-empires? And of course they have their own systems, how are humans integrated there? More of the same, or has the Wave and all that changed even basic behavior or accented it (the K'kree it seems have gone full-bore on carnivores if I read that correctly)

Exactly my point about IY 1248 empires in other threads. Some things are not as likely to be forgotten like the K'kree genocide by the K'kree or the surviving descendants of the progrom. Discus-like shapes are in bad-taste (the shape of Kkree ships), six is an unlucky number. Spilling milk on purpose to flush out and ward off evil Kkree spirits. Kkree remembering their "golden age" when all meat eaters were being chased down and the cruelty of carnivore witchcraft took it all away.

In other areas:
The Solomani go straight and become Terrans again, driving out the deep end racists, becoming, well, less racist...:rofl:
In Old Expanses, the Droyne resurgence and healthy, productive Virus citizens.
The reunification of the Aslan across the depths of the Great Rift before the Wave snuffed out that light.

 

[Timerover51]

Actually, based on the T5.10 rules as currently written, I do not think so. A Hop Drive's minimum Hop distance is nominally from >9 pc to 10 pc. However, you can always plot your Hop-course to intersect with a destination-world at a shorter distance, and you will precipitate out of Hop at the 1000-diameter Hop-limit after 1 week in Hop-Space.

The higher order drives also suffer from increasingly greater "exit-scatter", meaning that the amount of uncertainty in the exit point is greater with increasing drives. A Leap Drive might get you within so many parsecs of your intended destination, and then you will have to re-plot to get to where you finally wish to go. But drives at that TL are usually using Antimatter power, so the fuel usage is much less.

Let us see, a "Six" Drive will travel at least 1 Million Parsecs, or 3.26 Million Light Years. The Andromeda Galaxy is about 2 Million Light Years from Earth. So a "Six" drive would put you somewhere beyond the Andromeda Galaxy.

Now, a "Nine" Drive will travel at least 1 Billion Parsecs, or 3.26 Billion Light Years. Think about that a minute or two. Does whatever you are jumping to even exist any more? And how do you project where it is now?

Somehow, I think that these drives are not going to be terribly useful.

 

[kilemall]

Re: the people are people thing vs. transhumanism, you might consider that transhumans are effectively aliens as they are biologically different and will therefore have different perspectives and drives then Human 1.0.


The real strangeness may look like us but not be us.


Now then, the really ugly question is why do we have a hard time 'thinking alien', instead of space wolves?

 

[AtlanticFriend]

Now, a "Nine" Drive will travel at least 1 Billion Parsecs, or 3.26 Billion Light Years. Think about that a minute or two. Does whatever you are jumping to even exist any more? And how do you project where it is now?

I concur when it comes to ships. It's like Columbus using a teleportation pod to send his ships to what he thinks is India, hoping the Santa Maria doesn't end up on a mountain.

Hop could still prove a fantastic tool for exploration, with Hop-able probes going into the unknown, mapping it along with planetary and stellar movement for quite some time, and hopping back so the data can be integrated in future astrogation calculators, paving the way for manned ships.

 

[robject]

Somehow, I think that these drives are not going to be terribly useful.

Me either. A couple of plot devices. I don't know what else.

 

[robject]

Re: the people are people thing vs. transhumanism, you might consider that transhumans are effectively aliens [...]

Worse, I think, since (it seems to me) that aliens in an RPG have to run off of human motivations to be enjoyed. If they're unknowable, there can be no meaningful interactions... or am I missing something?

 

[coliver988]

Worse, I think, since (it seems to me) that aliens in an RPG have to run off of human motivations to be enjoyed. If they're unknowable, there can be no meaningful interactions... or am I missing something?

Not that I can think of: I can play variations on me, and characters seen in various media. But to play something completely alien with motivations entirely different, and not just a human motivation taken to some extreme, is beyond me. While I like to think I have a good imagination, I can't imagine what I can't imagine. If that makes any sense!

 

[McPerth]

About hop (and being not involved in T5, I knoly know what is told here, so I might wel lbe worng): ITTR astrogation dificulty Works on 1d per parsec away.

How many free traders, even if equiped with hop drives, would have this kind of astrogators? Trying to aim at 10 parsecs would be 10d against Stat- skill. As the average is 35, I guess there's a problem there...