Why wouldanyone want a Type-Y?

[Condottiere]

I recall one reason people might buy a yacht would be due to residency qualifications, in that if they aren't registered residents of a dirtside jurisdiction, they aren't liable for taxation specific to residency there.

 

[Grav_Moped]

What is a Yacht, anyhow?

The canon Type Y has the following characteristics:
1. 10 passenger staterooms, (one double-sized), and a Steward to cater to the passengers. This might be as few as 8 passengers if the ship needs a gunner, and small craft pilot is a separate crew position.
2. A fast small craft (Ship's Boat)
3. Unstreamlined
4. Two vehicles for on-world transportation (Air/raft and ATV)
5. 2-parsec range (as 2J1)
6. 11Td of cargo space

These imply:
1. With a full crew, the maximum passenger party is 8 persons. In-universe, it's about the limit of a manager's scope-of-control, so it approximates a leader traveling with his/her top-level advisors (and perhaps their assistants or spouses, if there are fewer than 8 advisors). Out-of-universe, that's about as large of a PC party that can be managed by a referee. This means you can have a max-participation convention scenario with PCs that are effectively passengers, with the crew as NPCs.

2. The ship itself isn't meant to be particularly high-G; that's what the small craft is for.

3. It's nonstreamlined. This is a deliberate design decision indicating that you don't want to land the yacht (and as boomslang points out, perhaps that you're willing to sacrifice utility to make your ship look really impressive). If you're not meeting with the local elites at their highport, they come to you, or you're visiting them in your hot-rod small craft.

4. There must be a good reason to have an ATV in addition to the air/raft. Suggests that the original conception of the air/raft was that it was a fair-weather vehicle only, and it would be unusable frequently enough to make carrying an ATV as a fallback prudent rather than a waste of space. Still doesn't sit well with me (If you can afford a yacht, you can afford a grav vehicle that can ignore weather!), but I didn't write the game.

5.As a base model (suitable for someone with SOC-11, perhaps), 2J1 is ok because it provides interstellar travel capability and more than token range. It's not going to be adequate for individuals whose time is more valuable than that of a mere Knight, though. They get faster and bigger ships, with more passenger space for their larger retinues (the close advisors can bring staff along, and probably bodyguards as well).

6. Everyone gets to bring ALL their luggage.


I think they missed a few things, mostly interior space. Whartung is right -- in Traveller, space travel is cramped and often less than pleasant. Extra elbow room is a luxury, and a yacht should have lots of it. Even the Safari Ship spends 10Td on its Virtual Dead Animal Zoo! Add lounges, theaters, observation decks, quiet little conversation nooks, gardens, etc. (Cost it out like cargo space, but no longer usable for cargo -- doesn't need to be at stateroom costs because the life support is already paid for in the staterooms.) At the higher end, avoid any multi-purpose or re-configurable space: everything has dedicated space, even if it goes unused. Especially if it goes unused (the owner can afford to drag around all this space for no reason at all)! At the lower end, it'll be kind of Potemkin-village-esque (crew in double-occupancy, cleverly reconfigurable spaces, minimal access corridors in areas not visible to passengers).

 

[Grav_Moped]

A yacht has two purposes: functional personnel transport, and projecting status.

To the extent that the personnel being transported are accustomed to a certain degree of luxury, that needs to be accommodated in even the most basic yachts. Actual performance should fit the use case (how far afield does the owner need to travel,, and how much time is available?)

Status projection means conspicuous consumption. It doesn't just have to be clean, efficient, and comfortable, but instead should be more ostentatious than necessary.

Custom hulls will be common. I can see using a modified unstreamlined Far Fat Trader (400Td, J2/2G) but maybe J3 would be preferable because it's nonstandard and costs more. Or hulls in nonstandard sizes (300Td, 500Td, etc.) [These points are pretty much irrelevant outside of LBB2...]

Armament should be token and mostly defensive. Armor (in HG, or later systems) might not be a bad idea. If there's a high threat profile, armed escorts will accompany the yacht. Beyond that, just travel in an appropriate military ship...

 

[Grav_Moped]

Which yacht a Noble PC gets as a mustering-out benefit should depend not only on their rank, but also on why they've left their life of high-level hobnobbery to seek adventure on the edge of Empire. Or, indeed, whether they've left that realm at all -- maybe they're out advancing their family's interests in a different form than local(ish) politics.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

What is a Yacht, anyhow?

Free Trader:

The type Y is just the people mover variant:

 

[AnotherDilbert]

While I'm sure there are yachts in Norway, most are at anchor and empty 9 mos out of the year, or steaming south.

I think you underestimate how hardy vikings are.

I don't know any yacht owners, but sail boat owners in Sweden tend to use their boats. You have to take them out of the water a few months in winter to avoid getting them crushed in ice, but otherwise they are in the water...

I had a convertible, I drove it open from, say, March to December, as long as the temperature was above freezing.

You get used to the chillier temperatures...

 

[robject]

Custom hulls will be common.

That's a good point that's worth writing about. High customizability is a feature of luxury expense. My more annoying players should be able to request custom ship design features, like:

1. An "observation bubble"
2. Or, better, Pop-Out staterooms at angles designed to give you an unobstructed, wide view of space.
3. A "catamaran" hull instead of a uniblob body
4. Expandable "multipurpose" habitat area into dry sections of fuel tankage (and outside the hull).
5. A flying bridge
6. Smallcraft trusswork to allow 2G yacht acceleration



And dwelling on the "color" descriptions of the interior is helpful.

Finally, Grav Moped and Dilbert got me thinking about Comfort. There has to be an implicit quality about these Yachts that keeps people (a) sane and (b) comfortable. In CT this might be a +DM to bridge tasks. In T5 this translates to "Crew Comfort" and "Passenger Demand".

 

[Grav_Moped]

That's a good point that's worth writing about. High customizability is a feature of luxury expense. My more annoying players should be able to request custom ship design features, like:

1. An "observation bubble"

Yes!

2. Or, better, Pop-Out staterooms at angles designed to give you an unobstructed, wide view of space.

Problematic in design systems with volume-based maneuver drives, as it increases displacement and reduces drive effect. If you meant "bay window" rather than "slide-out", then disregard.

3. A "catamaran" hull instead of a uniblob body

Absolutely! And perfectly acceptable in Traveller -- the Lab Ship works, doesn't it?

4. Expandable "multipurpose" habitat area into dry sections of fuel tankage (and outside the hull).

Collapsible tanks. On the Type Y, this gets you 20Td to play around in as soon as you light off the jump drive. (Also, it's legal since both the power plant and jump fuel minimums are met with the remaining 30Td tankage.)

Extending components outside the hull affects drive effectiveness as noted above. Not an issue in build systems that base maneuver drive effect on mass rather than volume.

5. A flying bridge

Of course!

6. Smallcraft trusswork to allow 2G yacht acceleration

Use the Ship's Boat as an extra Size A maneuver drive? Almost works, but it does bend the rules a bit. I like it, though!

And dwelling on the "color" descriptions of the interior is helpful.

Finally, Grav Moped and Dilbert got me thinking about Comfort. There has to be an implicit quality about these Yachts that keeps people (a) sane and (b) comfortable. In CT this might be a +DM to bridge tasks. In T5 this translates to "Crew Comfort" and "Passenger Demand".

It can be a +DM for High Passage customers in CT (not stated in the rules, but ordinary High Passage as defined only gets you the normal Mid-Passage facilities plus the services of a Steward -- there should be either a +DM for High Passage passenger quantity or the ability to command premium fares if you allocate more space and luxuries per passenger).

 

[Condottiere]

Pop out is plausible, considering we have pop up turrets.

 

[Jame]

This is why, when I got T4 way back in 200 and ... 4? I generated a noble and realized I hated the Type Y, which spurred me to learn the CT Starter Traveller ship generation system and design one which took out the ATV and had J2 and M2.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Pop out is plausible, considering we have pop up turrets.

In CT, the tonnage is (or should be) calculated with the turrets deployed. In practice, the only time it would make a significant difference is with a 199.5Td ship -- for crew determination, not drive performance. And even that's a referee call.

 

[Grav_Moped]

This is why, when I got T4 way back in 200 and ... 4? I generated a noble and realized I hated the Type Y, which spurred me to learn the CT Starter Traveller ship generation system and design one which took out the ATV and had J2 and M2.

In other words, a Type A2 Far Trader with a Ship's Boat and a few extra staterooms. Not a criticism, by the way!

I kind of get why they put the ATV in there (canon air/rafts are "...extremely subject to wind effects") but unless that's the only possible grav vehicle, they really should have given the Yacht a better one that could ignore wind effects. But then you'd need to add a few lines to LBB2 and a couple of paragraphs in LBB3, and they're both pretty dense already.

And they hadn't thought through the implications of the air/raft's stated capabilities. Based on what they say it can do, it's a lot better than they thought it was.

 

[kilemall]

I think they missed a few things, mostly interior space. Whartung is right -- in Traveller, space travel is cramped and often less than pleasant. Extra elbow room is a luxury, and a yacht should have lots of it. Even the Safari Ship spends 10Td on its Virtual Dead Animal Zoo! Add lounges, theaters, observation decks, quiet little conversation nooks, gardens, etc. (Cost it out like cargo space, but no longer usable for cargo -- doesn't need to be at stateroom costs because the life support is already paid for in the staterooms.) At the higher end, avoid any multi-purpose or re-configurable space: everything has dedicated space, even if it goes unused. Especially if it goes unused (the owner can afford to drag around all this space for no reason at all)! At the lower end, it'll be kind of Potemkin-village-esque (crew in double-occupancy, cleverly reconfigurable spaces, minimal access corridors in areas not visible to passengers).

The Safari ship is a better Yacht then the Yacht, especially if you repurpose the animal holding to luxury facilities.

 

[kilemall]

Which yacht a Noble PC gets as a mustering-out benefit should depend not only on their rank, but also on why they've left their life of high-level hobnobbery to seek adventure on the edge of Empire. Or, indeed, whether they've left that realm at all -- maybe they're out advancing their family's interests in a different form than local(ish) politics.

I usually pay attention to how many yacht benefits they get and add on 100 tons for each extra roll.


Course with each extra add-on, more operating expenses, and Momma Dame's trust fund has obviously gone bust. Better make that toy pay off.


Kind of a reverse situation to the hoi polloi Free Trader- the Noble is just trying to get gas and crew money to make it to the next system's hobnobbing Big Deal.

 

[Grav_Moped]

The Safari ship is a better Yacht then the Yacht, especially if you repurpose the animal holding to luxury facilities.

I've seen them used that way. Not a bad idea if you don't want to start from scratch.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I usually pay attention to how many yacht benefits they get and add on 100 tons for each extra roll.


Course with each extra add-on, more operating expenses, and Momma Dame's trust fund has obviously gone bust. Better make that toy pay off.


Kind of a reverse situation to the hoi polloi Free Trader- the Noble is just trying to get gas and crew money to make it to the next system's hobnobbing Big Deal.

The +100Td/benefit occurrence is a nice house rule, and I may end up using it myself.

Rules (Sup 4) as written, there's no mortgage. Still fuel, salaries, and maintenance to cover, though!

 

[Jame]

In other words, a Type A2 Far Trader with a Ship's Boat and a few extra staterooms. Not a criticism, by the way!

I kind of get why they put the ATV in there (canon air/rafts are "...extremely subject to wind effects") but unless that's the only possible grav vehicle, they really should have given the Yacht a better one that could ignore wind effects. But then you'd need to add a few lines to LBB2 and a couple of paragraphs in LBB3, and they're both pretty dense already.

And they hadn't thought through the implications of the air/raft's stated capabilities. Based on what they say it can do, it's a lot better than they thought it was.

And you can give it the story trappings of "Type A2 - In Style!"
Plus my TU's air/raft is typically enclosed, as most people who own one use them on uninhabitable worlds or, worse, ones with weather! (Like how a modern car is enclosed here on Terra.)

 

[Grav_Moped]

And you can give it the story trappings of "Type A2 - In Style!"
Plus my TU's air/raft is typically enclosed, as most people who own one use them on uninhabitable worlds or, worse, ones with weather! (Like how a modern car is enclosed here on Terra.)

OMG -- weather??!! You mean, like the instability in the gas bubble at the bottom of a gravity well weather?
#shudder#

Planets are weird.

Yeah, I see the air/raft as an overgrown flying VW Vanagon from the 1980s, maybe with a sunroof. Life support takes up the space that the camper cabinets occupy in the Westfalia camper conversions. Perhaps closer in size to the Nissan Civilian bus (wikipedia) though.

(Image credit: wikipedia)

Given Mr. Miller's background, it's probably a Deuce-and-a-half (2.5-ton payload 6-wheel-drive truck of Vietnam War vintage) by capacity and performance. And open-topped because the equivalent in the SF stories that Traveller draws from had them open-topped. Also simplifies fields-of-fire questions for occupants bearing small-arms.

 

[kilemall]

Mao's yacht from the Expanse with his daughter's racer ship looks like a good visualization.


Warning some spoilers if you haven't watched the show yet-
Double warning, first video is a bit smarmy. Sorry, best 'tour' of the ship.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZ0AjjB_WM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLkfHoy2E20


https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Guanshiyin


Since the Expanse has no artificial grav plate tech, everything is a tailsitter, even this yacht.

 

[Condottiere]

1. With Expansionist ship performance, for me it's less the lack of artificial gravity, which can be duplicated with constant acceleration, and is probably the principal reason for the high rise deck lay out, but getting there in a hurry.

2. Altering volume is more an issue when it changes requirements, like the border between jump worthy and bridge size.