General Collector Discussion

[Grav_Moped]

Restoring the alien operating system, or adjusting the default Collector Drive configuration in software, will restore double-jump capability.

Also, once double-jump capability is restored, a single jump will use either 40% (J2) or 60% (J3) of capacity, depending on which side was discharged for the Jump (either side can only support one jump up to its range, regardless of distance). This means recharge time is only the specified 1D weeks when both reservoirs are discharged; otherwise, it's either (1D*60%) weeks or (1D*40%) weeks.

A clever pilot will conceal the double-jump capability by pausing for a week in between consecutive jumps when possible.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Also, once double-jump capability is restored, a single jump will use either 40% (J2) or 60% (J3) of capacity, depending on which side was discharged for the Jump (either side can only support one jump up to its range, regardless of distance). This means recharge time is only the specified 1D weeks when both reservoirs are discharged; otherwise, it's either (1D*60%) weeks or (1D*40%) weeks.

A clever pilot will conceal the double-jump capability by pausing for a week in between consecutive jumps when possible.

(This mimics the performance of ordinary Collectors, especially during Jumps into/through empty hexes where "stellar collectors" cannot recharge and thus wouldn't be able to make the trip.)

... man, I wish we had a longer edit window.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Capacitor discharge is a touch vague, as well, beyond what rules pertain to Black Globes.

2. I think the assumption is that it empties it's entire load during transition, whether successful or not.

3. The capacitors take the charge from the energy source(s) that power the jump drive, while the Collectors provide exotic particles, that substitute for the fuel.

 

[Grav_Moped]

1. Capacitor discharge is a touch vague, as well, beyond what rules pertain to Black Globes.

2. I think the assumption is that it empties it's entire load during transition, whether successful or not.

3. The capacitors take the charge from the energy source(s) that power the jump drive, while the Collectors provide exotic particles, that substitute for the fuel.

In T5, it's explicitly stated that standard Collectors lose their charge within about a day once they reef their sails.

Charging The Canopy takes about a week. Once
charged, it remains so while deployed, and for about a day
after being stowed. A canopy accumulates about one tenth
charge for each day of deployment. (T5.1, Book 2, p. 189)

This means that even if a T5 Collector doesn't expend a full charge for a particular jump (say, a TL 15 Collector-2 ship doing a Jump-1), the rest of the charge leaks out before the ship leaves jumpspace again. This is distinct from Jump Capacitors.

Also, T5 Collectors likely also do what jump capacitors do for normal jump drives, because their Collector-drive ships don't need any additional power input to the jump drive.

Routine Energy Use. A Collector is unsuitable as a
routine energy supply (the mechanisms of the ship must be
powered by other sources); it only powers the Jump Drive.
Powering Jump Drive. One full charge provides the
power requirement for a Jump Drive of equal Drive Potential.
(T5.1, Book 2, p. 56)

T5 Collectors seem to be descended from those in ANNIC NOVA, which in turn was created in the context of LBB2 '77 (wherein the jump drive doesn't need any external power -- just all the jump fuel, every time no matter what).

MgT2, High Guard's version of the ANNIC NOVA requires enough energy from its power plant to initiate a Jump, with the Collector replacing only the fuel requirement. (Their XBoat does this too, but uses batteries instead of power plant output). This is consistent with all of Traveller after 1st Ed. High Guard, inclusive, except for T5.

ANNIC NOVA as written in DA1 can retain enough charge to jump again without recharging.

Last known contact took place off Dentus (0601-C979500) where the local scout base immediately set five Type S scouts on contact duty. Although the unknown immediately jumped, some basic data was recovered from scanners. (DA1, p. 5)

So it's different somehow. Based on the performance shown in its backstory (DA1, p.5), it might just have a "Collector-3 with a jump governor" -- that is, a total range of 3 parsecs, but the ability to not spend it all in one place.

 

[Grav_Moped]

So it's different somehow. Based on the performance shown in its backstory (DA1, p.5), it might just have a "Collector-3 with a jump governor" -- that is, a total range of 3 parsecs, but the ability to not spend it all in one place.

Except that interpretation is slightly at odds with the ship description and how it would have been understood in 1977, and completely contradicts Mr. Miller's exponential-drive retcon from a few years ago.

 

[Spinward Flow]

(Their XBoat does this too, but uses batteries instead of power plant output).

My interpretation was always that the XBoat's jump capacitors get charged up by the Tender power plant prior to jump, so the EP required to jump is "offloaded" onto the Tender part of the network, rather than being something "native" internal to the XBoat itself.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm by no means an expert of Tee Five mechanics, but I do know that capacitor charge doesn't get referred to after transition.

Also, Collector charge does dissipate by itself, I think, after a week.

 

[Grav_Moped]

My interpretation was always that the XBoat's jump capacitors get charged up by the Tender power plant prior to jump, so the EP required to jump is "offloaded" onto the Tender part of the network, rather than being something "native" internal to the XBoat itself.

That's exactly what MgT2 High Guard says happens. (my bad.) The power plant only covers basic ship systems, not the jump drive (either at jump initiation or during jump). They were trying too hard, though; it wouldn't take much extra cost or space to give it the ability to charge its own battery -- or eliminate the battery altogether.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Another interesting bit from MgT2 HG: It only says Collectors can't collect energy while the ship is accelerating, presumably because the canopy is stowed then (without saying so in so many words). Neither MgT nor T5 appear to have an upper acceleration limit for stowed Collectors. MgT2 doesn't even say that a ship with a Collector is inherently unstreamlined! (Neither does T5 -- but in those rules, exposing a Collector to atmosphere will ruin it so it's a moot point.)

DA1 allows the ship to be pushed at 0.1G by one of its pinnaces. However, while the pinnace's drives produce 200G-Tons of thrust and should be able to push 600Td of hull at 0.33G, the limit is 0.1G. This could be because the small-craft drive is inefficient at pushing a larger hull, but it really feels like it's meant to be constrained by the fragility of the Collector.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Neither MgT nor T5 appear to have an upper acceleration limit for stowed Collectors.

And of course I realized that back in July too and forgot about it (see earlier posts).

... man, I wish the edit window was longer. //sigh//

 

[Spinward Flow]

DA1 allows the ship to be pushed at 0.1G by one of its pinnaces. However, while the pinnace's drives produce 200G-Tons of thrust and should be able to push 600Td of hull at 0.33G, the limit is 0.1G. This could be because the small-craft drive is inefficient at pushing a larger hull, but it really feels like it's meant to be constrained by the fragility of the Collector.

I always interpreted that as a structural load bearing limit of the Annic Nova hull design.
So it's not a limitation of the pinnace drives, it's a limitation of the structural integrity of the docking booms the pinnaces dock onto.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I always interpreted that as a structural load bearing limit of the Annic Nova hull design.
So it's not a limitation of the pinnace drives, it's a limitation of the structural integrity of the docking booms the pinnaces dock onto.

If I'm reading it properly, the pinnaces when docked on the arms can only provide orientation-maneuvering (pitch and roll, with "yaw" accomplished by a combination of roll and pitch). Remember that the original version had them propelled by fusion rockets (as were all 1977-rules ships and craft), which would have made for some really spectacular visuals. The pinnaces pivot (in pitch only) on their docking adapters.

In order to provide sustained acceleration, one of the pinnaces has to be moved to the docking port at the aft end of the cargo deck.

There was speculation (on the Traveller Mailing List -- yes, that long ago) that the ship originally had a third pinnace that normally docked there, but which was used to evacuate the crew members whose corpses should have been found on the ship.

 

[Grav_Moped]

If I'm reading it properly, the pinnaces when docked on the arms can only provide orientation-maneuvering (pitch and roll, with "yaw" accomplished by a combination of roll and pitch). Remember that the original version had them propelled by fusion rockets (as were all 1977-rules ships and craft), which would have made for some really spectacular visuals. The pinnaces pivot (in pitch only) on their docking adapters.

To clarify:
Pitch is accomplished by pivoting both pinnaces up or down, applying thrust, then pivoting them in the opposite direction and applying an equal thrust to stop the rotation.

Roll is similar, but the pinnaces point in opposing directions instead of the same direction.

Yaw is accomplished by rolling the ship 90 degrees, pitching to the desired yaw angle, then rolling 90 degrees back to restore the original orientation.

In other words, the Enterprise from Star Trek, break-dancing but with fireworks.

If the pinnaces were out of fuel but the ship still had power, the pinnaces could still be used as crude reaction wheels to rotate the ship. Spin them in one direction, and the counter-torque will rotate the starship in the opposite direction.

 

[Condottiere]

Hull configuration doesn't figure in Mongosian physics, only acceleration caps in propulsion.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Hull configuration doesn't figure in Mongosian physics, only acceleration caps in propulsion.

Fair enough, but I was trying to get at something different: if you build a Far Trader with a Collector instead of most of the fuel, there's no reason you can't keep the 2G acceleration and land it on a world with an atmosphere, according to the Mongeese Rules.

I mean, we all know what a Collector looks like (there's even the example ANNIC NOVA in MgT2 HG), but there's nothing in those rules that says it has to be like that. As far as they describe Collectors, the whole thing could be just a big box with a hatch to the outside from which the sail unfolds.

I'd even be fine with house-ruling that. Just put the whole Collector into an oversized "small craft bay" big enough that the sail doesn't touch the bay walls, seal the compartment airtight and leave it holding vacuum, and have the artificial gravity and inertial compensation keep the bay interior at 0-G so the sail doesn't get stressed. Accelerate as hard as you want, land on shirtsleeve-environment worlds, no problem.

I just don't think that the stock Collector cost and tonnage includes the airtight compartment or grav compensation, that's all.

 

[Condottiere]

You can use a breakaway hull, which allows you to dispense with the pinnaces.

One half collects exotic particles, the other half does the delivery, and can be equipped to as fast as manoeuvre drives as you want.

 

[robject]

Except that interpretation is slightly at odds with the ship description and how it would have been understood in 1977, and completely contradicts Mr. Miller's exponential-drive retcon from a few years ago.

It doesn't contradict; it separates them into two distinct things.
At least, it's not intended to contradict, since the exponentiator has always (?) been a separate magic doohickey.

 

[Grav_Moped]

It doesn't contradict; it separates them into two distinct things.
At least, it's not intended to contradict, since the exponentiator has always (?) been a separate magic doohickey.

I was considering the possibility that the ship had only a Collector-3, that could power either of the two Jump Drives but not both. (This could enable a further interpretation that the space allocated to one of the two Jump Drives is nothing but jump capacitors/accumulators instead of an actual jump drive, making the whole ship a lot more ordinary.)

The contradiction is that if it's only a Collector-3, it can't power both Jump Drives simultaneously.
This doesn't jibe with the retcon's technobabble, since the magic doohickey needs both drives to be running.

To fire both drives at once, it has to be either a Collector-5 (base TL 18) or a Collector-3 (base TL 16, TL-stage "early" at TL 15) and a Collector-2 (base TL 15) in a single package. And the Imperium wouldn't let the PCs keep it if it's beyond TL 15.

 

[Grav_Moped]

You can use a breakaway hull, which allows you to dispense with the pinnaces.

One half collects exotic particles, the other half does the delivery, and can be equipped to as fast as manoeuvre drives as you want.

Of course! I've designed at least one ship like that myself over on the the yacht contest thread.

In MgT terms, give the Collector-powered jump shuttle "Maneuver-0" from the Space Station build rules and nothing more.
ANNIC NOVA doesn't even have that, though.
T5 collectors don't actually need even maneuver-0 if they can get an occasional nudge, because they shouldn't care which way the canopy is pointed. MgT collectors are so vaguely described that they could very well work like T5 ones. It's a critical issue for ANNIC NOVA type collectors, though.

The really clever bit is to make the fast boat jump-capable so it looks like that's how you arrived in-system.
That way, nobody realizes that you have a Collector ship out there being a sitting duck at the 100D line.

 

[Spinward Flow]

That way, nobody realizes that you have a Collector ship out there being a sitting duck at the 100D line.

Try 300 diameters ... or whatever is "beyond standard sensor ranges" above and beyond 100 diameters for the jump point (so everyone jumps in and out while your ship stays out of range beyond their sensor horizon).

Sure, it takes you longer to shuttle in and out from that distance ... but that's what powerful maneuver drives are for, right? Exchanging a few hours of maneuvering time for "security through obscurity" for your jump tender that lacks a maneuver drive at all sounds like a reasonable exchange, all things considered. Basically, if you "park(ing orbit)" where no one is going to bother looking ... that's relatively safe, right? All you need to do is expend a little extra delta-v on an evasive course between the tender and the mainworld (so as to throw any unwanted monitors off the correct trajectory between points A and B) and you're in a good position, security-wise. Not perfect, of course, but fairly decent when "security through obscurity" is deemed adequate for your routine operations.